Mentality issue

[Finnegan]

13 hours ago, Rusko187 said:

2 years on the bounce the same thing has happened (albeit, very slight differences). I'd think they would develop some complex about this.

 

I don't agree with this to be honest. We bottled last year, it was a train wreck. 

 

This year we just got caught up by two teams that always should have been top four. Chelsea and Liverpool have vastly more quality than we do, they've spent hundreds of millions more than we have and they just made up the distance. Liverpool spent half the season with a considerable amount of games in hand on us, the table was always a bit deceptive. 

 

We didn't collapse, our results were consistent all year. From the start of the season we've gone unbeaten for a few, then lost one or two, then gone unbeaten again, then lost a couple. We've been chucking points away to muck like Fulham, Newcastle, Leeds, Palace, Wolves etc all year. 

 

A large part of our problem has been breaking teams down and creating sufficient goal scoring chances. That's not surprising. Yesterday we played a mid table team who were able to field two of the best wingers in the world, plus a Dutch international and a Brazilian international as rotation options all creating chances for their golden Boot winning striker. 

 

We have Harvey Barnes, who's injured. 

 

The wide forward / winger roles are probably some of the most important in football, wide attacking players dominate goal contribution charts, the players considered the best in the world are nearly always players in these positions and we just don't have the assets there. 

 

We've got some fantastically promising defenders, a great striker (maybe, maybe two) and some of the best central midfielders in the world but our squad is still missing a really major component that all of the top four above us have in spades. 

 

Our chance creation absolutely dropped off a cliff when Barnes was injured, quite frankly I'm amazed we won the cup and stayed in the fight until the final day. If we can keep everyone in place and FINALLY sign some decent fvcking attackers we can come again next year. 

 

But honestly, when you look at our squad, our budget, our wage bill, our spend compared to the teams that finished above us? You look at our results and their consistency throughout the year? If you're still calling it a bottle job then, frankly, you're probably an idiot. 

[sacreblueits442]

..this is very much akin to a snooker game!!!

You have a 70 points lead, there are two reds left on the table and it is the deciding frame.

 You come to the table and attempt to pot a red, you miss the pot and brush against a ball, when you attempt to stand up. Four points given away as it was the Brown ball you came into contact with, but the white ball gas gone in such a position that your opponent cannot see either red ball.

 He ask you to play again, but it doesn't matter how many goes you take you cannot hit either Red ball. Suddenly from being in control you are now fighting to stay in the match. The pressure becomes unrelenting and you can't see a way out.

 Eventually you leave a situation where there is a free ball, your opponent clears up and wins the game (Liverpool).

  It comes down to how you deal with pressure, that in the end, you are judged by.

[The People's Hero]

46 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't agree with this to be honest. We bottled last year, it was a train wreck. 

 

This year we just got caught up by two teams that always should have been top four. Chelsea and Liverpool have vastly more quality than we do, they've spent hundreds of millions more than we have and they just made up the distance. Liverpool spent half the season with a considerable amount of games in hand on us, the table was always a bit deceptive. 

 

We didn't collapse, our results were consistent all year. From the start of the season we've gone unbeaten for a few, then lost one or two, then gone unbeaten again, then lost a couple. We've been chucking points away to muck like Fulham, Newcastle, Leeds, Palace, Wolves etc all year. 

 

A large part of our problem has been breaking teams down and creating sufficient goal scoring chances. That's not surprising. Yesterday we played a mid table team who were able to field two of the best wingers in the world, plus a Dutch international and a Brazilian international as rotation options all creating chances for their golden Boot winning striker. 

 

We have Harvey Barnes, who's injured. 

 

The wide forward / winger roles are probably some of the most important in football, wide attacking players dominate goal contribution charts, the players considered the best in the world are nearly always players in these positions and we just don't have the assets there. 

 

We've got some fantastically promising defenders, a great striker (maybe, maybe two) and some of the best central midfielders in the world but our squad is still missing a really major component that all of the top four above us have in spades. 

 

Our chance creation absolutely dropped off a cliff when Barnes was injured, quite frankly I'm amazed we won the cup and stayed in the fight until the final day. If we can keep everyone in place and FINALLY sign some decent fvcking attackers we can come again next year. 

 

But honestly, when you look at our squad, our budget, our wage bill, our spend compared to the teams that finished above us? You look at our results and their consistency throughout the year? If you're still calling it a bottle job then, frankly, you're probably an idiot. 

Not to mention that if we have a mentality issue; then there are 87 league clubs with a bigger mentality issue than us in the league and erm... all of them in the FA cup so yeah its h0rsesh1t and its the same mentioned every time we lose a game.

 

 

[Finnegan]

25 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..this is very much akin to a snooker game!!!

You have a 70 points lead, there are two reds left on the table and it is the deciding frame.

 You come to the table and attempt to pot a red, you miss the pot and brush against a ball, when you attempt to stand up. Four points given away as it was the Brown ball you came into contact with, but the white ball gas gone in such a position that your opponent cannot see either red ball.

 He ask you to play again, but it doesn't matter how many goes you take you cannot hit either Red ball. Suddenly from being in control you are now fighting to stay in the match. The pressure becomes unrelenting and you can't see a way out.

 Eventually you leave a situation where there is a free ball, your opponent clears up and wins the game (Liverpool).

  It comes down to how you deal with pressure, that in the end, you are judged by.

 

Except that's a poor analogy because football and snooker don't score alike. 

 

There's a cliché in football that "the table doesn't lie" but it's a complete load of rubbish until all the games have been played because until that point it categorically does lie. 

 

We're all judging a league table when we know full well we have three of the strongest teams in the league to play last, while Liverpool have a stroll in. The table has been deceptive all season, we've never been miles ahead with a clear lead because we could never afford to lose those three games. 

[HighPeakFox]

Not buying this. The players are knackered, spent, gave everything. 

[Fox in the North]

58 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't agree with this to be honest. We bottled last year, it was a train wreck. 

 

This year we just got caught up by two teams that always should have been top four. Chelsea and Liverpool have vastly more quality than we do, they've spent hundreds of millions more than we have and they just made up the distance. Liverpool spent half the season with a considerable amount of games in hand on us, the table was always a bit deceptive. 

 

We didn't collapse, our results were consistent all year. From the start of the season we've gone unbeaten for a few, then lost one or two, then gone unbeaten again, then lost a couple. We've been chucking points away to muck like Fulham, Newcastle, Leeds, Palace, Wolves etc all year. 

 

A large part of our problem has been breaking teams down and creating sufficient goal scoring chances. That's not surprising. Yesterday we played a mid table team who were able to field two of the best wingers in the world, plus a Dutch international and a Brazilian international as rotation options all creating chances for their golden Boot winning striker. 

 

We have Harvey Barnes, who's injured. 

 

The wide forward / winger roles are probably some of the most important in football, wide attacking players dominate goal contribution charts, the players considered the best in the world are nearly always players in these positions and we just don't have the assets there. 

 

We've got some fantastically promising defenders, a great striker (maybe, maybe two) and some of the best central midfielders in the world but our squad is still missing a really major component that all of the top four above us have in spades. 

 

Our chance creation absolutely dropped off a cliff when Barnes was injured, quite frankly I'm amazed we won the cup and stayed in the fight until the final day. If we can keep everyone in place and FINALLY sign some decent fvcking attackers we can come again next year. 

 

But honestly, when you look at our squad, our budget, our wage bill, our spend compared to the teams that finished above us? You look at our results and their consistency throughout the year? If you're still calling it a bottle job then, frankly, you're probably an idiot. 

Cheers Finnegan, couldn’t have put it any better! 

[UniFox21]

58 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't agree with this to be honest. We bottled last year, it was a train wreck. 

 

This year we just got caught up by two teams that always should have been top four. Chelsea and Liverpool have vastly more quality than we do, they've spent hundreds of millions more than we have and they just made up the distance. Liverpool spent half the season with a considerable amount of games in hand on us, the table was always a bit deceptive. 

 

We didn't collapse, our results were consistent all year. From the start of the season we've gone unbeaten for a few, then lost one or two, then gone unbeaten again, then lost a couple. We've been chucking points away to muck like Fulham, Newcastle, Leeds, Palace, Wolves etc all year. 

 

A large part of our problem has been breaking teams down and creating sufficient goal scoring chances. That's not surprising. Yesterday we played a mid table team who were able to field two of the best wingers in the world, plus a Dutch international and a Brazilian international as rotation options all creating chances for their golden Boot winning striker. 

 

We have Harvey Barnes, who's injured. 

 

The wide forward / winger roles are probably some of the most important in football, wide attacking players dominate goal contribution charts, the players considered the best in the world are nearly always players in these positions and we just don't have the assets there. 

 

We've got some fantastically promising defenders, a great striker (maybe, maybe two) and some of the best central midfielders in the world but our squad is still missing a really major component that all of the top four above us have in spades. 

 

Our chance creation absolutely dropped off a cliff when Barnes was injured, quite frankly I'm amazed we won the cup and stayed in the fight until the final day. If we can keep everyone in place and FINALLY sign some decent fvcking attackers we can come again next year. 

 

But honestly, when you look at our squad, our budget, our wage bill, our spend compared to the teams that finished above us? You look at our results and their consistency throughout the year? If you're still calling it a bottle job then, frankly, you're probably an idiot. 

Brilliant post. When you read and hear the bullshit from the "big" 6 'fans', just come back to this post. 

Chelsea spent £200mill in the summer, to finish a point above us. They brought our starting LB and tripled his wage. 

 

If you're still calling us bottlers in a week, you'll never get it. 

[volpeazzurro]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

Brilliant post. When you read and hear the bullshit from the "big" 6 'fans', just come back to this post. 

Chelsea spent £200mill in the summer, to finish a point above us. They brought our starting LB and tripled his wage. 

 

If you're still calling us bottlers in a week, you'll never get it. 

It's not necessarily to do with expenditure though is it, I'd suggest it equally is to do with the 'team' as opposed to individuals, their deployment, tactics and management. When our whole team was worth 21.5m and Manchester City's was 350m, we won the Premiership by a clear 10 points! Chelsea and their expensive cast were going absolutely nowhere until Toucal came in and galvanised them. That was nothing to do with money, it was to do with employing the right manager at the right time. 

[Finnegan]

8 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Brilliant post. When you read and hear the bullshit from the "big" 6 'fans', just come back to this post. 

Chelsea spent £200mill in the summer, to finish a point above us. They brought our starting LB and tripled his wage. 

 

If you're still calling us bottlers in a week, you'll never get it. 

 

1. Nobody should be reading football social media "banter." It's a toxic wasteland of edgelord chavs sharing a collective braincell per club and I include our own in that. 

 

2. Regardless of the above point, the fact they feel the need to try and lash out and take the piss exposes how triggered they are by our progress. We're  causing considerable damage to their egos, consistently showing them up with most aspects of the running of our club. 

 

Edited 24 May 2021 by Finnegan

[UniFox21]

Just now, volpeazzurro said:

It's not necessarily to do with expenditure though is it, I'd suggest it equally is to do with the 'team' as opposed to individuals, their deployment, tactics and management. When our whole team was worth 21.5m and Manchester City's was 350m, we won the Premiership by a clear 10 points! Chelsea and their expensive cast were going absolutely nowhere until Toucal came in and galvanised them. That was nothing to do with money, it was to do with employing the right manager at the right time. 

It's something to always remember though. Those squads should be hugely ahead of us, yet we're fighting with them continually. 

[volpeazzurro]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

It's something to always remember though. Those squads should be hugely ahead of us, yet we're fighting with them continually. 

Yes I do agree with that in fairness as usually, better players beat lesser players and better players cost more money, it's just how it is. However, we in recent times have bought talent in under the radar very very well and they have performed to a high standard. However, they still have to be managed and deployed effectively.

 

However, if we look how long we'd been in that top 4 though and how far behind us Chelsea and others were, our last 9 matches yielded something like 5 defeats, 1 draw (v 10 men) and 3 wins (1 v Man United reserves). Injuries certainly played their part, but with only really Barnes and JJ out, things in that respect had improved somewhat and most opposition teams we played were carrying injuries also. Rodgers also played his part in not getting get us over the finishing line, he can't be completely absolved. We hadn't necessarily been losing to teams like Chelsea with expensively built squads.

[Guest ttfn]

I’ve decided I’m not going to look at the league table next season and literally take each game as it comes.

 

Everything about the way that the media portray football is contextualised by some sort of forced narrative that has little to do with why the average fan actually goes to the game.
 

I don’t enjoy the Soap Opera, it just annoys me. There seems to be a whole generation of fans for whom the game itself is a total inconvenience and serves only to further the narrative. I got into football because I liked playing it and I liked watching it. I’m going back to basics next season in the vain hope that I get that enjoyment back.

[NasPb]

some of our players def have a mentality issue especially since some decided to go party during a pandemic....

[CosbehFox]

38 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Not buying this. The players are knackered, spent, gave everything. 

A good chunk of our squad will have also been away from their families for months now 

[kingfox]

This squad not only lacks depth, but it lacks leadership.

 

The majority of this squad is still very inexperienced, a little bit of naivety is clearly a factor at this club. Whether you want to class it as bottling or not, this team has folded like a cheap tent, far too many times over the past two season’s.

 

Last season we saw poor results against the likes of Southampton, Norwich, Brighton, Watford and especially Bournemouth, not winning those games ultimately cost us top four. 
 

It’s been the same case again this season, the most worrying factor though is we’ve had too many “Bournemouth” like performances. 
 

3-0 West Ham

3-1 Leeds

3-1 Arsenal

4-2 Newcastle

4-2 Spurs

 

Conceding three or more goals to those sides was criminal, in every single one of those games our mentality just folded, our backbone was nowhere to be found. 
 

As Rodgers said after the match yesterday, this team needs players who know what winning feels like.

 

With Wes and Fuchs now gone, this team is in desperate need of experienced heads, a couple of players who can pull the inexperienced one’s through, so we don’t see any drubbings like we’ve seen this season. 

[AmyLGK]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't agree with this to be honest. We bottled last year, it was a train wreck. 

 

This year we just got caught up by two teams that always should have been top four. Chelsea and Liverpool have vastly more quality than we do, they've spent hundreds of millions more than we have and they just made up the distance. Liverpool spent half the season with a considerable amount of games in hand on us, the table was always a bit deceptive. 

 

We didn't collapse, our results were consistent all year. From the start of the season we've gone unbeaten for a few, then lost one or two, then gone unbeaten again, then lost a couple. We've been chucking points away to muck like Fulham, Newcastle, Leeds, Palace, Wolves etc all year. 

 

A large part of our problem has been breaking teams down and creating sufficient goal scoring chances. That's not surprising. Yesterday we played a mid table team who were able to field two of the best wingers in the world, plus a Dutch international and a Brazilian international as rotation options all creating chances for their golden Boot winning striker. 

 

We have Harvey Barnes, who's injured. 

 

The wide forward / winger roles are probably some of the most important in football, wide attacking players dominate goal contribution charts, the players considered the best in the world are nearly always players in these positions and we just don't have the assets there. 

 

We've got some fantastically promising defenders, a great striker (maybe, maybe two) and some of the best central midfielders in the world but our squad is still missing a really major component that all of the top four above us have in spades. 

 

Our chance creation absolutely dropped off a cliff when Barnes was injured, quite frankly I'm amazed we won the cup and stayed in the fight until the final day. If we can keep everyone in place and FINALLY sign some decent fvcking attackers we can come again next year. 

 

But honestly, when you look at our squad, our budget, our wage bill, our spend compared to the teams that finished above us? You look at our results and their consistency throughout the year? If you're still calling it a bottle job then, frankly, you're probably an idiot. 

100% agree - those idiots on twitter I was trying to explain this too last night, however, do not. Who are these people? 12 year olds who only started supporting us when we won the league? I wish they'd move on to supporting a super league club so we can have some peace and quite and sensible discussions. Our club is magnificent in so many ways, and of course needs improvement - but we're going at it the right way - improving each year, with sustainable growth. Roll on next year (with some new signings...) 

[Kendal Fox]

Despite injuries to key players throughout the year and to Fofana yesterday, it would have filtered through to the ground that Villa were winning and they were in a winning position against Spurs and couldn't keep it together for less than a third remaining of the last game of the season. I'm sorry but that is unacceptable.

 

We might still have Albrighton, Smeichel and Vardy. But collectively, they don't even have 25% of the mental toughness of the 2015/16 title winners.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

It’s not a mentality issue. It’s a squad depth issue. Just look at the defence we ended the game with yesterday. To call it makeshift is being kind.

 

If anything our mentality over a season is to be applauded. 7/8th in terms of budget. View things in that context please - 5th and an FA Cup is outstanding. 

You might question the mentality of Spurs for example, who always tend to underachieve. Look at the quality they brought on yesterday to change the game, and then look where they finished.

Edited 24 May 2021 by Wasyls Pec Deck

[shailen]

We've done superb to be in the race till the last game. We don't have the depth that Chelski or Liverpool have, it's obvious when we have a few injuries that our squad is depleted. That is why we've done extraordinarily well to get the results we've had when we've had injuries. Everyone talks about Liverpool's injuries, but we've had it equally bad imo. All I want to see this summer is us reinforcing key areas such as wide forwards/wingers and a CB, with a few other squad players. 

[Kendal Fox]

12 minutes ago, kingfox said:

This squad not only lacks depth, but it lacks leadership.

 

The majority of this squad is still very inexperienced, a little bit of naivety is clearly a factor at this club. Whether you want to class it as bottling or not, this team has folded like a cheap tent, far too many times over the past two season’s.

 

Last season we saw poor results against the likes of Southampton, Norwich, Brighton, Watford and especially Bournemouth, not winning those games ultimately cost us top four. 
 

It’s been the same case again this season, the most worrying factor though is we’ve had too many “Bournemouth” like performances. 
 

3-0 West Ham

3-1 Leeds

3-1 Arsenal

4-2 Newcastle

4-2 Spurs

 

Conceding three or more goals to those sides was criminal, in every single one of those games our mentality just folded, our backbone was nowhere to be found. 
 

As Rodgers said after the match yesterday, this team needs players who know what winning feels like.

 

With Wes and Fuchs now gone, this team is in desperate need of experienced heads, a couple of players who can pull the inexperienced one’s through, so we don’t see any drubbings like we’ve seen this season. 

Exactly. People saying that Chelsea and Liverpool were always going to finish above us are saying that very much in hindsight. And it wasn't anything to do with what those teams did, it was very much us blowing it because we couldn't keep it together mentally, for whatever reason, some of it being inexperience of course.

Let's not kid ourselves, other teams with less talented players would have held on to that lead yesterday, knowing the significance of what it would have brought.

[fuchsntf]

26 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Not to mention that if we have a mentality issue; then there are 87 league clubs with a bigger mentality issue than us in the league and erm... all of them in the FA cup so yeah its h0rsesh1t and its the same mentioned every time we lose a game.

 

 

I believe when People mentions a Metal issue...

I believe, they mean ,high concentration, & a mental discipline through 90 minutes/ After Chronic injury return getting back to that last routine....

Skill is not always technical, high Class performers, over long season bring mental aptitude, for longer periods, even with the occasional dip..

 

No Doubt all of is felt the Disapointmentt & hurt yesterday....Because 4th was in Touching Distance over 38 games,especially After leading

Twice & 2-1 with 15minutes to go....But not just over 3* games, But the very last game, last 78minutes our Bline was again ransacked from injury..

 

After the Event ist always easy to be a clever buggar, and Spit out what should Abs could of happenned, with the subs..!!

I would of brought in Amartey & kept Ndidi in his familiar-role...

 

Forget our forward & midfield lines that have also  taken a beating...our Bline...and no Team carries 8 covering defenders, from the very beginning, we have

seen our Bline hit with crazy longer Term injuries....Evans,Ricardo,Soyuncu,Castagna,Amartey,Justin, Fofana, ...that lot IS..our Defence

Add Ndidi & Barnes, Who Take pressure Off the bline, & Defends the Space needed for Tielemans...

Not 20 games,Not 10 games,Not 5 games, Bit every 3rd game there has been an upeavel und disruption...Plus players having to be nursed.

für actually regular teamsheets...were names being filled in by dots....because no Returnee came or played being fully fit..98% if they were Horses

wouldnt of been Running but up the knackers yard..!!

 

The incredible underrating of our injury crisis...No media outlet, not even Close to Home picked up on it...

as been the showing & proving of our Club's Ethos of staying balanced & humble at all times, and just getting on with it attitude

then you look at the pathetic & excuse rambling of bigger rescourced  clubs managers, Guardiola, Tuchel, & Klopp..

Ole to his credit..didnt Shout anything from the rooftops...und

Mord times over the season our regular high Quality performers, in important interesting positions were took out & Never Returned to Full fitness....

This was Not und normal " yes Bit other Teams also had injuries" scenario...

Rodgers kept Evans,Fofana, then Vardy, Ndidi,Ricardo,Maddison nursed season Close to his chest...

 

We saw..Youngsters Justin,Fofana,Thomas, come up trumps and played with Experience above their age, Castagna came and filled a missing gap,Soyuncu

started to  produced high-level required performances....Then at different stages, all took Major injuries, with consequences loss of Team building...

Thomas came out, somewhat unscathathed,. but had to Face the PL, with little consistent familiar-support...

Then wham,...!!!  Not only Justin then Barnes our tact-maker, in the EOS run-in, gets ripped  away..

So Maddisons return still came too early, the lad has a worrying problem......questions a forming..'Another potential James situation'

 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

Doesn't matter what you mentality if you can't get you best team on the pitch.

 

	League Games missed			% League game missed
Caglar Söyüncü	13	34
Wesley Fofana	6	16
Jonny Evans	9	24
Ricardo Pereira	17	45
Timothy Castagne	10	26
Wes Morgan	18	47
Daniel Amartey	9	24
James Justin	15	39
Wilfred Ndidi	11	29
Dennis Praet	13	34
Nampalys Mendy	1	3
Harvey Barnes	12	32
James Maddison	7	18
Ayoze Pérez	9	24
Jamie Vardy	4	11
Total	154

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

We finished yesterday with two of our main CBs sat in the stands. Our midfield general playing CB. Our first choice RB easing back into fitness. Our creative midfielder having to come off before the 80th minute to ease him back. Our goal scoring left winger at home. Our young up coming LB with our left winger at home. Our second choice RB playing CB. 

 

This isnt mentality. Its reality. Wolves lost a few players and finished mid-table. We ran top 4 all the way until the 70th minute of the last game. There is a human element here. Players have been playing three times a week since August. After you lose so many of your first team, sooner or later the replacements are not up to it. 

 

I truly believe they gave the last ounce of what they had left in the FA Cup. I believe our manager wants his team to be more expansive but struggles to do so due to our shit luck with injuries. Because of the fatigue. 

 

Yes it hurts, yes its again a season of what ifs. However, dont just question this teams big game mentality and ignore what has actually happened and what has been achieved. You've got Liverpool with 6 defeats at home and finishing 20 odd points behind the champions celebrating a third place finish. A finish achieved with a better squad then ours. We are not doing the same because it feels like we had let it go. But look at what we have overcome to achieve this season. If this happened in Football Manager, most of us would've hit the restart button after Barnes got injured!

 

 

[Blarmy]

3 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

Not to mention that if we have a mentality issue; then there are 87 league clubs with a bigger mentality issue than us in the league and erm... all of them in the FA cup so yeah its h0rsesh1t and its the same mentioned every time we lose a game.

 

 

That really isn’t how it works. 

[Guest]

When we lose or something goes wrong, we have a mentality problem. When we win, we don't. It's so boring seeing the same baseless wailing about mentality and desire after every defeat and every failure. We got caught by teams with bigger, better squads and more money.