Tackling racism on social media

[whoareyaaa]

1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I cant believe half the things I've read since the result. This is now normal that's how crazy it is. People are more concerned with players taking a frigging knee to highlight this ridiculous, degusting attitude then actually fixing the problem. 

 

The issue with Social Media is that it gives everyone a voice. That voice is faceless to some extent so people abuse it. They abuse others. Some are so thick they don't even hide it but the majority are cowards who hide behind a profile. With use of social media should come responsibility. Perhaps even a membership scheme. That way its not faceless. Having a voice comes with responsibility and not everyone is willing to take on that responsibility. So take away the privilege. 

 

Don't get me started on morons like Patel and Johnson who chose to advocate abuse of players taking the knee despite repeated explanations of why they were doing it. Guys like Zaha are right, the knee or any other gesture doesnt have the effect because the idiots are not being held accountable but how else do players make a stand. 

Social media is to blame as they should make everyone who wants to comment verify there account, like how betting, trading sites do.. it wouldn't even be that hard for them to implement and then it would also stop them creating various accounts to abuse people from.

 

Clearly Social media company's are happy for this to carry on

[bovril]

8 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

I don’t how anyone can sit there and think about firing up their laptop or getting their phone out, search up a social media site etc., then think of something abusive to send to someone and not stop and think “hang on, wtf am I doing?” 

Because a lot of these people are deliberately looking for a reason to create conflict and division

[Pliskin]

2 hours ago, goose2010 said:

surely the first step is verification on accounts. If any one has ever opened an online gambling account you know what you have to do. They can confirm who you are and where you live. 

 

IT takes about 5 minutes max. 

 

It surely is a starting point? 1 Account per person. 

I agree with this. You should be made to provide some sort of ID to create an account. Card details are too risky, maybe something else though? 
 

The only way to seriously stop it is to make sure these platforms are regulated. The only issue comes with those apps that are American owned, they tend not to cooperate when it comes to requesting details off them.

 

I think the best way to police it, is like you say using a forced ID system to open these accounts maybe the only way we can deal with it. 
 

And in terms of criminal punishment, why not formulate a list, similarly to a sex offenders register if you get found guilty, you get put on a register and whenever a company runs a background check on you it will show up that you’ve been convicted of a form of hate crime.

 

A lot of these social media attacks unfortunately carry very little punishment in the eyes of the law, there needs to be some new legislation to keep up with it all, and it thinking something sort of “hate crime offenders register” might be an option…. If someone wants to air their racist views, they need to pay a proper price and a punishment that will severely impact them. 
 

Every company should then be given the right to run a basic CRB check which in tern will show them if this employee has been convicted of a hate/race crime. 
 

No one will ever sit on an interview at a reputable business and admit to being a racist, but lie about it and it shows up, means the company can terminate their employment without warning.

 

I can’t see a financial punishment working, and custodial sentence won’t be an option. A compulsory education class about racism and discrimination along with being placed on a register could potentially help the message sink in, they fail to attend the classes, then another year gets added to their conviction…. Meaning they could be out of work for a long time. 

Edited 12 July 2021 by Pliskin

[TrickyTrev Benjamin]

I remember when Leicesters  Facebook page put up the rainbow badge for pride and there was more angry face reactions then likes. The angry faces and comments where mostly Algerians men writing abuse. I’m not saying for one second theres no English people abusing footballers on social media. However I think a lot of it is overseas accounts especially in the Middle East/ Eastern Europe. 

Edited 12 July 2021 by TrickyTrev Benjamin

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said:

I remember when Leicesters  Facebook page put up the rainbow badge for pride and there was more angry face reactions then likes. The angry faces and comments where mostly Algerians men writing abuse. I’m not saying for one seconds there no English people abusing footballers on social media. However I think a lot of it is overseas accounts especially in the Middle East/ Eastern Europe. 

The non-UK abuse was something that Southgate mentioned today. 

[Sly]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

How would you sin bin  fvck u, fcuk U, fu, fook u or even fuch u? There arn't really any trigger words, it's only when you search for stuff that trigger words become effective, which  the police use to try and track peados and stuff.

We all know what they are they. It’s easy enough to develop a filter for these type of words. Online gaming has developed the ability to filter out these, so why can’t Twitter, Facebook, Insta etc …… simply put, they don’t want to. No press, is bad press for them. 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

29 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I agree with this. You should be made to provide some sort of ID to create an account. Card details are too risky, maybe something else though? 
 

The only way to seriously stop it is to make sure these platforms are regulated. The only issue comes with those apps that are American owned, they tend not to cooperate when it comes to requesting details off them.

 

I think the best way to police it, is like you say using a forced ID system to open these accounts maybe the only way we can deal with it. 
 

And in terms of criminal punishment, why not formulate a list, similarly to a sex offenders register if you get found guilty, you get put on a register and whenever a company runs a background check on you it will show up that you’ve been convicted of a form of hate crime.

 

A lot of these social media attacks unfortunately carry very little punishment in the eyes of the law, there needs to be some new legislation to keep up with it all, and it thinking something sort of “hate crime offenders register” might be an option…. If someone wants to air their racist views, they need to pay a proper price and a punishment that will severely impact them. 
 

Every company should then be given the right to run a basic CRB check which in tern will show them if this employee has been convicted of a hate/race crime. 
 

No one will ever sit on an interview at a reputable business and admit to being a racist, but lie about it and it shows up, means the company can terminate their employment without warning.

 

I can’t see a financial punishment working, and custodial sentence won’t be an option. A compulsory education class about racism and discrimination along with being placed on a register could potentially help the message sink in, they fail to attend the classes, then another year gets added to their conviction…. Meaning they could be out of work for a long time. 

My word… where do you even start with this?!

 

Symptomatic of the current climate of telling people what to think rather than how to think.

 

20 years ago, telling Janine (who actually used to be Trevor and had a wife and two kids for 25 years) that ‘she’ can’t enter a women’s swimming race would have been seen as logical, now some would say it’s a hate crime. How do you even attempt to create a common standard across a multi-generational population on what constitutes abuse/hate?!

 

And with regards to your views about employment opportunities for racists, are we meant to just have thousands of people on the dole because we will no longer give them a job because they don’t think a certain way? Even if they’re the best person at the job and their prejudices have never been evident at work?

 

So we again just tell people blanket “this is what you should think and if you don’t then you can’t have a job” and not even attempt to understand the nuances that come with racist views such as poor education, life experiences, media-fuelled fears…?!

 

It’s ridiculous. I asked where to even start, and I’ve kind of made a start, but I’m still astounded that this has even been put forward as an idea!

[yorkie1999]

10 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The non-UK abuse was something that Southgate mentioned today. 

Surely all the service providers and people that run social media accounts could block messaging from non-uk devices, or would that be too much of an infringement on peoples civil rights.

[Vestan Pance]

The only thing that can be done is to aggressively target the racists and as far as social media is concerned make them responsible for identifying people.

 

We seem to taking easy options in trying to solve racism by having campaigns targeting 'racism', which not only doesn't work but is also extremely divisive and counter productive. The concept of having campaigns against murder or rape or theft is ridiculous, it wont stop the perpetrators. Target the racists, punish them and make an example of them.

Edited 12 July 2021 by Vestan Pance

[Vacamion]

1 hour ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Whenever these stories come out, and you go and search for the actual Tweets, I would say 80% of the accounts are clearly not people from the UK. Very often the perpetrators appear to be from the Middle East or Far East.

 

 

So we British aren't racist, it's those bloody foreigners?

 

 

You've solved racism. Bravo.

 

 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

Just now, Vacamion said:

 

 

So we British aren't racist, it's those bloody foreigners?

 

 

You've solved racism. Bravo.

 

 

You’ve quoted just a part of my entire post where I have acknowledged there is racism in the UK. Bravo.

 

Southgate himself actually said as much today. He said something along the lines of: “The people who can track these things have found that many of the messages have come from abroad but there are undoubtedly still some from the UK”.

 

Go find the quote, re read my post in full and then come back to the table if you fancy contributing to the discussion in a constructive manner.

 

 

[Vacamion]

2 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

You’ve quoted just a part of my entire post where I have acknowledged there is racism in the UK. Bravo.

 

Southgate himself actually said as much today. He said something along the lines of: “The people who can track these things have found that many of the messages have come from abroad but there are undoubtedly still some from the UK”.

 

Go find the quote, re read my post in full and then come back to the table if you fancy contributing to the discussion in a constructive manner.

 

 

 

You don't get to tell me what to do. You're not my Mam. 

 

You started your post with "I would say 80% of the accounts are clearly not people from the UK."

 

Forgive me for not being bowled over by your apoarently entirely anecdotal evidence.

 

A lot of those I saw (see, two can refer to their own experiences) were from what appeared to be UK based people, including those utter nuggets who posted from accounts with their name and employer on, and found themselves in trouble.

 

I thought it was noteworthy that your response to a thread about racism was to blame Johnny Foreigner for "80% of" it.  I don't think I needed to quote your whole post to point that out.

 

I still think that's a relevant point.  

 

 

[HighPeakFox]

14 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

You don't get to tell me what to do. You're not my Mam. 

 

You started your post with "I would say 80% of the accounts are clearly not people from the UK."

 

Forgive me for not being bowled over by your apoarently entirely anecdotal evidence.

 

A lot of those I saw (see, two can refer to their own experiences) were from what appeared to be UK based people, including those utter nuggets who posted from accounts with their name and employer on, and found themselves in trouble.

 

I thought it was noteworthy that your response to a thread about racism was to blame Johnny Foreigner for "80% of" it.  I don't think I needed to quote your whole post to point that out.

 

I still think that's a relevant point.  

 

 

Look, you're both right. There is a massive problem with paid accounts from abroad sowing discord at every opportunity - that they might be doing so on highly fertile ground is another matter.

[Pliskin]

44 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

My word… where do you even start with this?!

 

Symptomatic of the current climate of telling people what to think rather than how to think.

 

20 years ago, telling Janine (who actually used to be Trevor and had a wife and two kids for 25 years) that ‘she’ can’t enter a women’s swimming race would have been seen as logical, now some would say it’s a hate crime. How do you even attempt to create a common standard across a multi-generational population on what constitutes abuse/hate?!

 

And with regards to your views about employment opportunities for racists, are we meant to just have thousands of people on the dole because we will no longer give them a job because they don’t think a certain way? Even if they’re the best person at the job and their prejudices have never been evident at work?

 

So we again just tell people blanket “this is what you should think and if you don’t then you can’t have a job” and not even attempt to understand the nuances that come with racist views such as poor education, life experiences, media-fuelled fears…?!

 

It’s ridiculous. I asked where to even start, and I’ve kind of made a start, but I’m still astounded that this has even been put forward as an idea!

So what would you suggest? 
 

Should someone be not given a job if their prejudice views? Even if their views to dislike a person because of their race? Yes is my answer to that.

 

Yo clearly didn’t get the point I was trying to make….. It is not a case of telling someone what to think, it is properly punishing someone for thinking something which is abhorrent, horribly out of date and has no place in society. 
 

Racism isn’t just a ‘little issue’ that if we turn a blind eye to it will eventually go away, it’s an issue deeply routed into some members of society, and it won’t be stopped unless proactive work is done to stop it.

 

 

So let’s say the police track down someone who’s sent a racist message to someone, what options do they have? To be honest, there aren’t many…… like I said, a fine probably won’t help as most will either not pay it or can’t afford to pay it, custodial sentence won’t even be considered so what? 
 

I don’t think there is anything remotely outrageous about creating a register for people convicted of a hate crime, and I would class messages being send containing racial abuse as a hate crime…. It’s targeting a protected characteristic, a part of someone they can’t change, and that’s acceptable is it? 
 

I think the best way to stop it is hit people where is really hurts, not everyone has racist views, and if they don’t and don’t share them, then they won’t be prosecuted will they? But those who do share them or actually send message containing racial abuse to someone, and they get identified, then the should be punished, and what better way than seriously impacting their life? Make it a possibility for potential employers to find out about these convictions, because I guarantee no company with a moral back bone would recruit someone who openly and publicly displayed racist views.

 

It’s 2021, the fact people still think it’s acceptable to act in such a way os embarrassing, and it shows the current methods of punishment aren’t enough.

[Guest ttfn]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

Look, you're both right. There is a massive problem with paid accounts from abroad sowing discord at every opportunity - that they might be doing so on highly fertile ground is another matter.

And in a sense the fact they’re arguing over what is really not the point goes to show part of the issue here.

 

Nobody has any idea about how to fix this. The overwhelming majority of us who are opposed to discrimination need to stick together, not squabble over details. The nationality of the abusers is irrelevant to the broader issue in football but relevant to wider societal issues in the UK.

[Foxxed]

Foreign governments use social media to cause division. It's fairly well documented.

 

And the government records that racial hate crime has doubled since 2013.

 

Both are true.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8537/

 

 

Edited 12 July 2021 by Foxxed

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Surely one part of this is quite easily solved?

The PFA and FA is notoriously awash with money. Is it really beyond their means to pay for the development and launch of their own players social media platform rather than they have to use Twitter, Instagram and the like. I know they shouldn't have to have their own platform but these other huge moneyed companies appear to be doing diddlysquat to combat certain issues.

 

To gain access to the platform and your chosen players account, the football supporter would have to register and supply full personal data including photograph, full name, address and proof of the same ie copy of photo licence, passport or similar. Transgressors can be struck off for minor infringements or in certain cases, be referred to the police for consideration of prosecution. I would suggest that the simple minded neanderthal racist bigots are unlikely to join as these pathetic keyboard warriors usually only spread their filth from behind the safety of an anonymous keyboard. If you think this is a slight on your civil liberties then feel free not to join, you have a choice.

 

Whilst it's not my thing personally, I know my son likes to see what various footballers are up to and their thoughts. I'm sure when we go down to the King Power to watch Wilf, Kelechi and Wes etc, the majority of us just watch and cheer our players and the mere thought of skin colour doesn't even enter into our heads because it is of no relevance to normal people. The fact that 3 of our really young England lads can suffer such vile abuse both turns my stomach and angers me greatly. They need some protection and everyone that could be helping seems to be dragging their feet!

 

The above suggestion would seem to be a reasonable place to start and surely it can't be beyond the wit of man to implement similar. It doesn't cure racism but it can offer a bit of protection I would have thought?

Like the idea at least Football would be shown to be taking a stance...

But every sportsman/Women will want Access to other forums/Blogs to and for  other outlets of interest,

so they would always be Open from those areas to abuse...

[Tielemans63]

Tech companies need to ****ing sort it out.

 

How and why is there not a facility whereby a Tweet (or whatever) that contains a term such as the N word can't even be posted? Should be immediately reported and an instant ban for the user. With verified accounts, that is surely possible?

 

How can posts like this get to the point where another human being can see it? The offensive word is right there, not even coded, the option to post should be denied. 

 

 

It's almost as though social media posts make $$millions from hate and have no interest in the greater good.

 

I find it so depressing. It's 2021 and we're still in the Dark Ages.

Edited 12 July 2021 by Paddy.

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

2 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Whenever these stories come out, and you go and search for the actual Tweets, I would say 80% of the accounts are clearly not people from the UK. Very often the perpetrators appear to be from the Middle East or Far East.

 

This is part of the problem. Football is a global game but unfortunately that brings with it a spectrum of global views. If you don’t understand what I mean with that, you only have to look at the reaction of Turkish fans following us because of Soyuncu, or Algerians following us because of Mahrez/Slimani, when the official Leicester City account Tweets an LGBT-related post. They’re not to a standard of acceptance or support you would expect in the UK.

 

Yet we are meant to lament how unprogressive we are as a country on equality when in actual fact we are one of the most progressive. Because it’s the British game it’s supposedly a reflection of British society and that’s just not the case. Why is this issue not so rife in rugby where there are many black players? Because it is less of a global game and does not have that level of global engagement on social media.

 

Yes, racism exists in Britain as it does everywhere else on the planet, but Tweets to British or British-based footballers is not solely a British problem. Therefore if you want to start bringing in ID checks then it needs to happen globally (do all users have the ability to provide ID required? Not all countries are as developed as the UK when it comes to that sort of thing)  - and I don’t know if petitions in the UK or changes to UK law can really change anything when we are just a % of the social media users.
 

For any ID requirement to have the desired impact, you’d also need to have laws and police forces in the countries of the perpetrators able and motivated to support the prosecution of online abuse cases. How motivated do you think some of those other countries are to do that?

 

 

80% is an incredibly generous estimate. 

[Aus Fox]

If you want social media companies to act, people need to be willing to deactivate accounts on platforms. 
The only way any big business will take any sort of action on any issue is when there profits are down.

It’s all well and good writing to the club and the local MP, but how many of you who say enough is enough are willing to stop giving the companies everything they need?

Take Twitter as an example, if on mass people started deactivating their accounts, they would lose advertising revenue almost instantly and be forced into change. 
The more people who do this the quicker change will come about. Otherwise, these companies sit back, wait for the latest news story to blow over and carry on. 

[volpeazzurro]

40 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Like the idea at least Football would be shown to be taking a stance...

But every sportsman/Women will want Access to other forums/Blogs to and for  other outlets of interest,

so they would always be Open from those areas to abuse...

Yes they would I suppose but at least they would have a choice of whether to ditch the main street options. Perhaps merely the threat may kick some backsides into gear because if these sites make their money from advertising, then the potential loss of swathes of professional footballers would effect potential revenue.

 

Another poster wrote regarding followers from other countries and their abilities or not to provide details which I hadn't even thought of to be honest. However, if I was a footballer and was paying a reasonable amount of money to the PFA out of my wages, I would expect them to research the matter. Like dementia in footballthere PFA do always seem to be very late to the table with research and initiatives.

[STUHILL]

Tech companies have the ability to detect racism the moment it is posted. They simply do not care, and what's worse, most likely actively allow it, to generate as much clicks and interaction/time on their platforms as possible. 

 

Governments need to come together across the world and slap eyewatering fines on all these mega rich tech companies, until they implement the safeguards that they are more than capable of setting up. 

 

I'm not putting all the blame on the social media companies. I am just being realistic, that they hold the most power to help stop this vile nonsense. 

[HighPeakFox]

4 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Tech companies have the ability to detect racism the moment it is posted. They simply do not care, and what's worse, most likely actively allow it, to generate as much clicks and interaction/time on their platforms as possible. 

 

Governments need to come together across the world and slap eyewatering fines on all these mega rich tech companies, until they implement the safeguards that they are more than capable of setting up. 

 

I'm not putting all the blame on the social media companies. I am just being realistic, that they hold the most power to help stop this vile nonsense. 

Nice idea. Sadly, governments of the world won't come together, and don't have enough power to do anything like this, let alone the will.

[splinterdream]

3 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

Social media is to blame as they should make everyone who wants to comment verify there account, like how betting, trading sites do.. it wouldn't even be that hard for them to implement and then it would also stop them creating various accounts to abuse people from.

 

Clearly Social media company's are happy for this to carry on

How do you think social media sites should verify people's identity and why should they bear the cost of policing what people say? For the UK perspective, racism is illegal, any racism can be reported and will likely be investigated by the police. 

[STUHILL]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

Nice idea. Sadly, governments of the world won't come together, and don't have enough power to do anything like this, let alone the will.

100s of millions of people certainly won't come together and create a mass boycott of social media either.