Champions League 2021/22

[Raj]

Just now, grobyfox1990 said:

 

I am a Leicester fan who applies for tickets for every World Cup, euro, champions league and uefa super cup final via the public ballots. This year I was lucky enough to get champions league and have a close friend who supports Liverpool who has a lot of connections in Paris (free accommodation, native speaker) so gave him my additional ticket and hence spent time with Liverpool fans all day. Your last comment shows incredible naivety, trolling or a basic lack of understanding. The public ballots for these tournaments, rightly or wrongly, are for football fans who want to experience these huge occasions as a neutral, and millions apply every year.  I was also in Tirana, along with lots of other Leicester to see Roma v feyenoord on weds 

Fair enough, must cost you a fortune though.

Its not naivety,  I just wouldn't go unless it's my own team in action but each to their own, youseem to love the game so fair dos

 

[KFS]

7 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Mate, let’s be honest, if our fans had paid £200 for a ticket + flight and hotel costs and they were queuing 2hrs before the game, the gates were closed without explanation then plenty of our fans probably many on here would try and climb the gates to get in to see the match. If the police had given any communication at all then that wouldn’t happen. 
 

There’s loads of credible eye witnesses from neutrals out there of people queuing patiently getting tear-gassed including children. Regardless of if a few fans used fake tickets that is an absolutely absurd and life-threateningly dangerous abuse of power from the police.
 

Trying to create a false equivalency between Liverpool fans and the police here and going with “both sides-ism” is so transparent.

Wtf is this  there’s literally video of these lads breaking the law also. Take the emotion out of it pal and you see there was ****ery from both sides yesterday. That’s a fact.

[grobyfox1990]

4 minutes ago, Raj said:

Fair enough, must cost you a fortune though.

Its not naivety,  I just wouldn't go unless it's my own team in action but each to their own, youseem to love the game so fair dos

 

Hence the ‘naive’ point (not meant offensively at all). Lots of neutrals want to experience the biggest occasions in the sport. The cost was reasonable, free accommodation and transit in Paris. My friend speaks native, non accented, French so we got a case of 24 Heineken and two kebabs for free. No idea why, the whole convo was in French and I didn’t ask questions, but the French very much look after their own 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Missing my point/maybe I’m not making it clear enough. This has nothing to do with forged tickets. The blocks, checks and stops police put in place for Liverpool fans was completely different to what was in place for Madrid fans. They were effectively waved through, Liverpool were not and remember NO CHECKS on tickets were done prior to the turnstiles. Thousands of ticketless fans is a simple, Tory-esque, lie.

Can you be absolutely sure those things didn't happen as a result of the forged tickets?

 

It doesn't take long for things to go south pretty quickly with just a handful turning up with dodgy tickets, or jumping barriers etc.  Because they are going to argue their side and won't just walk away if they think they bought a good ticket. That's going to slow it all down and cause a nightmare (think of the shitty queues at the KP when something goes tits up for a few minutes). Perhaps those measures got put in place early, in an attempt to slow down the crowd arriving at the turnstiles in one mass, which would probably be more chaotic. 

 

There are videos of fans jumping the gates, fans laughing at jibbing into the stadium and plenty of reports of fake tickets. And looking in the Liverpool end, you could barely see the aisles, so there was clearly a huge number of people stood or say where they shouldn't be. So I'm not sure we can't pretend there wasn't an issue that might have started the chaos, with the police then being their usual idiotic selves and making things worse. 

 

[grobyfox1990]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Can you be absolutely sure those things didn't happen as a result of the forged tickets?

 

It doesn't take long for things to go south pretty quickly with just a handful turning up with dodgy tickets, or jumping barriers etc.  Because they are going to argue their side and won't just walk away if they think they bought a good ticket. That's going to slow it all down and cause a nightmare (think of the shitty queues at the KP when something goes tits up for a few minutes). Perhaps those measures got put in place early, in an attempt to slow down the crowd arriving at the turnstiles in one mass, which would probably be more chaotic. 

 

There are videos of fans jumping the gates, fans laughing at jibbing into the stadium and plenty of reports of fake tickets. And looking in the Liverpool end, you could barely see the aisles, so there was clearly a huge number of people stood or say where they shouldn't be. So I'm not sure we can't pretend there wasn't an issue that might have started the chaos, with the police then being their usual idiotic selves and making things worse. 

 

From what I saw and reading reports from journalists who were also there, the ticketless fan issue was not a major problem at all. I’ve seen a lot of videos of French kids, who were causing chaos all day, jumping barriers and also some of Liverpool. As I said i jumped a barrier/fence because I thought I was going to get crushed. I’m not a thug and I had a ticket. The measures put in place were nasty and deliberate, hence my French friend was pulled out as soon as they realised he was native. Authorities knew it was unsafe. You could barely see the aisles in our area due to Madrid bunching together

[kingkisnorbo]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Sevilla as a city was set up better for ticketless fans as they set up events with big screens including one of these being setting up in a stadium holding 30k, that helps when it comes to hosting ticketless fans. 
 

Both Frankfurt and Rangers fans were dealt with heavy handed outside the ground. Numerous belongings taken off them and then when getting in the ground, there was no available water. Stories of fans pulling apart sprinkler pipe work to get a drink in 33 degree heat. 
 

Frankfurt throughout their run have been notorious for taking over cities with thousands of ticketless fans. In recent memory this included them overpowering Arsenals security staff and getting hundreds into the Emirates without ticket. 
 

Again in Tirana, they made the sensible decision to set up a big screen in the Feyenoord fan area to give an expected 4k ticketless supporters an area to mill. Well documented the trouble in the city the night before with over 100 arrests and deportations across the two sets of fans. 
 

To make the very simplistic argument that some fault lies at Klopp telling Liverpool to travel to Paris is nonsense tribal football whataboutery. 
 

There is always for an European Cup final going to be jibbers. There is always going to be ticketless fans. There is always going to be thousands upon thousands. Plan, organise and police it better (Rome did this largely brilliantly in the circumstance at the start of the month for our visit). Cities and stadiums can’t lap up the boost to the economy by hosting but then not be willing to organise themselves properly. 
 

For some unknown reason the operation last night at Stade de France completely went away from their normal plan and it just fell into chaos. 

Bang on. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

 

 

[Sampson]

20 minutes ago, KFS said:

Wtf is this  there’s literally video of these lads breaking the law also. Take the emotion out of it pal and you see there was ****ery from both sides yesterday. That’s a fact.

Wtf is this? You genuinely believe children should be given poisonous gas because a few people jump the gates and show fake tickets? 
 

What do you mean take the emotion out of it? Pepper spray doesn’t just affect the person sprayed at. There’s videos of people being sprayed about 20 meters away and women having to turn away coughing. 

 

Take your subservience to the police out of it. They put people’s lives in danger over minor crimes with a massively disproportionate response. That’s a fact.

 

Pepper spraying in tight groups of multiple people because a couple had been climbing gates and showing fake tickets is an utterly absurd over the top and disproportionate response. The kind of shit that causes innocent people to get seriously injured or die.

 

 

Edited 29 May 2022 by Sampson

[foxfanazer]

 

Someone really needs to tell Owen to....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 May 2022 by foxfanazer

[SemperEadem]

 

[UniFox21]

From the looks of it, there have been failings on so many levels here.

Organisationally it's failed, Uefa/french police  have really made a mess of things. Tear gassing random fans isn't a good show. 

 

Blame has to fall on police not controlling the local gangs who appear to have caused huge issues as well. 

 

But then you have to look at the sheer number of Liverpool fans arriving in Paris without tickets, many would have been peaceful, but those causing trouble will have been amplified by being in the crowds they were in. The videos of fans rushing in without tickets is never a good view. Police likely saw the euro final as a potential event, hence the stupidity of the official decisions.

 

Interesting Madrid hadn't reported many issues, maybe just a reporting bias however. 

 

Time will tell, but it appears multiple things have contributed to this farce. 

[Lionator]

This is all a handy distraction from Liverpool bottling it last night. A great team they are, but they bottled it. Their stars are ageing. I thought they’d got the quadruple but nobody will remember this season from them. 

[Vlad the Fox]

48 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

 

Hang on, Is no one going to mention the lad who takes the pepper spray full in the face like it’s water? Gives it a little finger wag “alright alright that’s enough” kind of thing and wanders in like it’s nothing.  

Edited 29 May 2022 by Vlad the Fox

[whoareyaaa]

19 minutes ago, Lionator said:

This is all a handy distraction from Liverpool bottling it last night. A great team they are, but they bottled it. Their stars are ageing. I thought they’d got the quadruple but nobody will remember this season from them. 

They have only won 4 cups (League, Champions League, FA Cup, League Cup)  in the same time we won the League and FA Cup

 

 

[Matt_Lcfc]

These were the same fans glorifying jibbing all week on social media. Flags saying ‘up the ticketless reds’ & ‘Paris blaggers’ had been doing the rounds. I cannot blame the police being worried (especially with their track record). The videos proved it, they were jumping over the fences - Madrid got in absolutely fine. Does that not suggest that it was a Liverpool problem? 
 

Trouble just seems to follow them everywhere they go but they take absolutely no responsibility. When they came up to Newcastle last month, they behaved like sub-humans. Genuinely. 

[grobyfox1990]

13 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

These were the same fans glorifying jibbing all week on social media. Flags saying ‘up the ticketless reds’ & ‘Paris blaggers’ had been doing the rounds. I cannot blame the police being worried (especially with their track record). The videos proved it, they were jumping over the fences - Madrid got in absolutely fine. Does that not suggest that it was a Liverpool problem? 
 

Trouble just seems to follow them everywhere they go but they take absolutely no responsibility. When they came up to Newcastle last month, they behaved like sub-humans. Genuinely. 

I keep beating this drum on this thread because fake news, manipulative lies and tribalism/xenophobia being justified by a plainly false rhetoric is a dangerous prospect for our world.
 

But in the nicest possible way - you have absolutely so little idea of what you’re talking about it’s laughably embarrassing. 

[Izzy]

On 22/05/2022 at 16:40, Lionator said:

I’ve said for months on here that this Liverpool side are the best English football have ever seen and you all just mocked. Not looking so daft now am I 

 

51 minutes ago, Lionator said:

This is all a handy distraction from Liverpool bottling it last night. A great team they are, but they bottled it. Their stars are ageing. I thought they’d got the quadruple but nobody will remember this season from them. 

Make your mind up chap 

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

Make your mind up chap 

They are in my opinion the best but they bottled it at the crucial moments, so maybe they’re not quite there and I was wrong. They’re absolutely the best footballing side though, they battered Madrid last night like they do every team they play against. 

[Spudulike]

5 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Again, total rubbish. I scaled the fence because I was scared of what may happen next as the crush intensified. I’m probably on one of these videos. A kid next to me was getting wiped out and, along with his dad, could barely get him over. Id like to see how you would handle the situation if you were there. I had a real match ticket 

The point of my post was aimed at the selective BBC reporting of the incidents coupled with the amount of coverage given to Liverpool. The scenes first shown on TV this morning featured fans climbing over fences and running to beat security guards into the stadium. No sign of escaping a distressing situation. Glad that I wasn't there and can't think of a circumstance why I would be. 

 

Personally I can't think of many things worse then being in a fan park surrounded by Liverpool fans and hangers on. Each to their own. 

[Matt_Lcfc]

5 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The point of my post was aimed at the selective BBC reporting of the incidents coupled with the amount of coverage given to Liverpool. The scenes first shown on TV this morning featured fans climbing over fences and running to beat security guards into the stadium. No sign of escaping a distressing situation. Glad that I wasn't there and can't think of a circumstance why I would be. 

 

Personally I can't think of many things worse then being in a fan park surrounded by Liverpool fans and hangers on. Each to their own. 

Reckon GrobyFox is a scouser in disguise 

[grobyfox1990]

7 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The point of my post was aimed at the selective BBC reporting of the incidents coupled with the amount of coverage given to Liverpool. The scenes first shown on TV this morning featured fans climbing over fences and running to beat security guards into the stadium. No sign of escaping a distressing situation. Glad that I wasn't there and can't think of a circumstance why I would be. 

 

Personally I can't think of many things worse then being in a fan park surrounded by Liverpool fans and hangers on. Each to their own. 

And my point throughout this thread is encapsulated by your one word. Selective. You have no idea what went on, so don’t comment, much less throw blame! The post from the Geordie above which I quoted shows how easy it is to brainwash people ‘Madrid got in absolutely fine’ !! He’s watched all this on tv, where on earth has he made up that ridiculous opinion from. 

[FoxesDeb]

11 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The point of my post was aimed at the selective BBC reporting of the incidents coupled with the amount of coverage given to Liverpool. The scenes first shown on TV this morning featured fans climbing over fences and running to beat security guards into the stadium. No sign of escaping a distressing situation. Glad that I wasn't there and can't think of a circumstance why I would be. 

 

Personally I can't think of many things worse then being in a fan park surrounded by Liverpool fans and hangers on. Each to their own. 

You really wouldn't want to be at a CL final as a neutral, if you had the opportunity? I'd love to! 

[Matt_Lcfc]

10 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

And my point throughout this thread is encapsulated by your one word. Selective. You have no idea what went on, so don’t comment, much less throw blame! The post from the Geordie above which I quoted shows how easy it is to brainwash people ‘Madrid got in absolutely fine’ !! He’s watched all this on tv, where on earth has he made up that ridiculous opinion from. 

Yeah my bad, if I formulate an opinion based on reliable information I must be xenophobic and prone to tribalism. 
 

As I said, their fans were an utter disgrace last month in Newcastle. Really sorry if I struggle to have sympathy for them. 
 

Also, not sure why you’re calling me a geordie - especially for a poster who prides himself on facts.

Edited 29 May 2022 by Matt_Lcfc

[KFS]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

From the looks of it, there have been failings on so many levels here.

Organisationally it's failed, Uefa/french police  have really made a mess of things. Tear gassing random fans isn't a good show. 

 

Blame has to fall on police not controlling the local gangs who appear to have caused huge issues as well. 

 

But then you have to look at the sheer number of Liverpool fans arriving in Paris without tickets, many would have been peaceful, but those causing trouble will have been amplified by being in the crowds they were in. The videos of fans rushing in without tickets is never a good view. Police likely saw the euro final as a potential event, hence the stupidity of the official decisions.

 

Interesting Madrid hadn't reported many issues, maybe just a reporting bias however. 

 

Time will tell, but it appears multiple things have contributed to this farce. 

This is what I’m saying if @Sampsoncan look beyond jumping to emotional conclusions here. It’s a shitshow all round but not one party should walk away feeling hard done by. 

[grobyfox1990]

10 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Yeah my bad, if I formulate an opinion based on reliable information I must be xenophobic and prone to tribalism. 
 

As I said, their fans were an utter disgrace last month in Newcastle. Really sorry if I struggle to have sympathy for them. 
 

Also, not sure why you’re calling me a geordie - especially for a poster who prides himself on facts.

Exactly true. You somehow think your info is reliable and you've formed a clearly false opinion. But you still think your info is 'reliable' - this is exactly how xenophobia begins.

 

So has no one else been an 'utter disgrace' in Newcastle before? I've been there 9 times and each time the city has been awash of puddles of sick, piss, sh1t and fighting from stag and hen groups. Much worse than anywhere else in the UK ive consistently travlled to. Why are you singling out football fans?

 

I called you a Geordie because i got that apparent reliable fact from how you posted about Liverpool fans in Newcastle suggesting you live/are from there. Apologies if this is not correct. Main point being, you do not have a clue what you are talking, especially re Madrid fans. Be big enough to admit that.