Tactics Under Maresca

[STUHILL]

6 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Aaron Ramsey's AMAZING goal. You can't criticise Ndidi here, he does go to close down the ball, but look at how far our Ramsey is when he hits it. Even for him that is a 1 in a 100 strike. Brilliant goal mind!

 

 

Agreed, and if Ndidi does stick out a leg or jump to anticipate a shot, Ramsay could have easily caught him off balance and progressed with the ball. 

Very difficult to criticise anyone with this goal. Hats off basically. 

[The_Rorab]

For me, I don't necessarily think we have a tactical issue, other than potentially familiarity - just in terms of I think we're still not quite at the level where the tempo of the passing is quick enough or incisive enough when we look to progress the ball forwards in many cases. That hopefully will come with time, and hopefully some more players through the door before the window shuts where we'll see more fluency in patterns of play. The groundwork for me is there, and we just need to finetune and keep working on how we play and performances should hopefully improve consistently.

 

I think our biggest issue is simply overcoming the demons of previous collapses - I still think we have a bit of a mental issue at the club where when we concede we can just completely cede control of the game to the opposition and just collapse a bit - I don't think it's a coincidence that some of our worst spells in our games thusfar have come 2nd half after conceding against Coventry and 2nd half today having just conceded before HT.

 

Luckily we've been up against poorer quality teams, and been a bit more solid defensively and had the grit to grind things out when it's looked dicey though, which is a marked turn from the last few years!

 

Hopefully both will continue to improve as Maresca works more with the team, and as we hopefully build up more confidence with more wins and consistency in the team.

Edited 19 August 2023 by The_Rorab

[Paninistickers]

58 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

The Casadei goal. What I want to draw your attention to is that Maresca is stubborn. No last ditch ball into the box, we stick to our principles. We play the ball short and drag a few players out of position as we trigger their press. This leaves some men short which benefits us with the scramble. I am clutching at straws a bit to call this Maresca-ball, but it is in keeping with his overall phillosophy.

I'm concerned. The only principle should be to win. The doggedness to stick with the two lads out wide will cost us.

 

Kels and Vards together would tear teams apart. I'm not advocating all game every game. We got lucky today, sticking with the two wide lads who are both sub par. 

 

Subbing Wilf and surrendering midfield was right out of Rodgers' playbook. 

 

Players win games. Not systems. I trust our best players right now more than the 'system'

 

 

[Collymore]

We'd be on zero points in the Prem after 3 playing thus far but we're 9 out of three in the Championship. What a gulf in class! 

 

If we ever play Vestegaard and Faes at a higher level we'll have our own pants down and won't have anyone to blame - they're an accident waiting to happen. 

 

I really hope Enzo realises all of this...

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

I'm concerned. The only principle should be to win. The doggedness to stick with the two lads out wide will cost us.

 

Kels and Vards together would tear teams apart. I'm not advocating all game every game. We got lucky today, sticking with the two wide lads who are both sub par. 

 

Subbing Wilf and surrendering midfield was right out of Rodgers' playbook. 

 

Players win games. Not systems. I trust our best players right now more than the 'system'

 

 

Systems are designed to give your players the best chance of winning you the game and likewise the reason we have principles we stick to is because we think they give us the best chance of winning games. The player who came on for Wilf did win us the game.

[ozleicester]

4 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

The Casadei goal. What I want to draw your attention to is that Maresca is stubborn. No last ditch ball into the box, we stick to our principles. We play the ball short and drag a few players out of position as we trigger their press. This leaves some men short which benefits us with the scramble. I am clutching at straws a bit to call this Maresca-ball, but it is in keeping with his overall phillosophy.

Maresca ball is SO SEXY.. that it has an R rating/warning before watching the clips  (Thank dog im over 18)

Edited 20 August 2023 by ozleicester

[foxfanazer]

I'm fully behind him but I do feel like we're getting by on individual moments rather than a successful game plan. It's alright whilst we're getting away with it but sooner or later we won't. Still early days of course

[Claudio Fannieri]

21 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

I'm fully behind him but I do feel like we're getting by on individual moments rather than a successful game plan. It's alright whilst we're getting away with it but sooner or later we won't. Still early days of course

Disagree, we carved Cardiff open so many times especially in the 1st half but a lack of quality and/or composure ultimately cost us from extended our lead and putting the game to bed in the 1st half. 
 

We are still woefully short of attacking options, we need at least 2 more quality wide forward options and at least one striker. Whilst it as great to see Wanya get off the mark with a cracking goal, he is not yet at the level to start every week, also we need someone who can provide cover and competition for Mavidid who did well in the 1st half but who was also guilty of missing a couple of good chances and then in the 2nd half went off the boil and made some poor choices that gave away possession.  The tactics are excellent and are part of the reason we are picking up so many late goals as the opposition are on the last legs, we are creating a number of high quality chances and getting into good areas but at the moment we are still seeing either a lack of composure or in certain areas a lack of quality. 
 

If we can move players on and that allows us to bring in a right winger, another wide forward and striker we will be flying, we could and should have been out of sight at half time leading 3 or 4-1 

[Dahnsouff]

30 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

I'm fully behind him but I do feel like we're getting by on individual moments rather than a successful game plan. It's alright whilst we're getting away with it but sooner or later we won't. Still early days of course

Don’t agree with this at all, it is the system, the grinding down of the opposition that allows these late goal.  It can always seem that individual moments are key, because it’s always an individual who actually scores, I get that, but we seem very much a system team currently, albeit one that is evolving further into this systems

 

Starting to sense a resistance on the forum, as people believe we should be going 100% all out attack 100% of the time, which is not at all realistic.

[foxfanazer]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Don’t agree with this at all, it is the system, the grinding down of the opposition that allows these late goal.  It can always seem that individual moments are key, because it’s always an individual who actually scores, I get that, but we seem very much a system team currently, albeit one that is evolving further into this systems

 

Starting to sense a resistance on the forum, as people believe we should be going 100% all out attack 100% of the time, which is not at all realistic.

No I'm not in this camp whatsoever. But we can't always rely on a late deflection dropping perfectly to one of our players 6 yards out. Overall it's great to see us try to take more care with the ball but we need to either become far more clinical or create a higher volume of chances

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

No I'm not in this camp whatsoever. But we can't always rely on a late deflection dropping perfectly to one of our players 6 yards out. Overall it's great to see us try to take more care with the ball but we need to either become far more clinical or create a higher volume of chances

This relates to my point about the system grinding down opponents with our retention, of tiring them out, so later chances become more common, guess I am saying it’s not luck but part of the system to seize these late goals.

[ClaphamFox]

13 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

After the Huddersfield game Maresca was directly asked whether by picking two keepers he was sending a message to the board that he wanted more signings. This was his answer:

 “If you take it in that way, then thank you, it’s a message for the club. But it’s your message, not my message.”

 

Although he’s being slightly cryptic here, he clearly wasn’t denying it. If it wasn’t true, you’d think he’d say so.

 

Edited 20 August 2023 by ClaphamFox

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

After the Huddersfield game Maresca was directly asked whether by picking two keepers he was sending a message to the board that he wanted more signings. This was his answer:

 “If you take it in that way, then thank you, it’s a message for the club. But it’s your message, not my message.”

 

Although he’s being slightly cryptic here, he clearly wasn’t denying it. If it wasn’t true, you’d think he’d say so.

 

Which does indicate that he doesn’t believe that the board are as committed to getting some players out and new ones in as much as he is. That’s not a recipe for progress with a coach only two months into his contract.  Enzo will be in demand if we continue to win and he won’t think twice about walking if the board have not been straight with him.  This has echoes of Brendan last august. 

[smudger63]

4 hours ago, Guest said:

Systems are designed to give your players the best chance of winning you the game and likewise the reason we have principles we stick to is because we think they give us the best chance of winning games. The player who came on for Wilf did win us the game.

The question is, did he come on  for the right player.

Ndidi was having a good game, and gave us a better chance of winning the ball higher up the pitch, and gave a bit of protection to those behind.

KDH was the one who should have come off in my opinion, although of course it was his scuffed shot that eventually created the winner.

Edited 20 August 2023 by smudger63

[DezFox]

I like that there a players he wants gone and he is not playing them now. Unlike Southampton, we will have a settled team that has been playing together. When Southampton lose the likes of Tella and Adams they will have to reintroduce other players into the first 11. In theory we should not be losing anyone we aren’t already playing without. Although it’s still early days. 

 

I’m really hoping that the board have full buy in, however I’m starting to think this is not the case. Massive couple of weeks ahead, pray that the board can be ruthless and progressive. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

I’m unsure if winning late on again is a positive, or whether it’s a sign of scrapping past teams we should be beating. I’m going with the former, and especially given the transition to this new style. 
 

As we saw against Huddersfield, the style of play may be enough to win some games at this level as it smothers and tires teams out. 
 

I thought yesterday was an improvement on the previous two games, and thought we opened them up more and created more chances. We should have been at least 2 up at half time, and then their goal comes as a bit of a sucker punch and reflects poor game management (KDH giving the ball away in the middle of the park with 30 seconds left on the clock).
 

One thing that’s been apparent in all 3 games is that most opposition chances come from our sloppiness, typically one of the CBs dilly dallying or a midfielder losing the ball. I’m sure as we progress we will cut out these silly mistakes.

 

Agree with all the comments about needing more depth, particularly a tricky right winger. If Mav gets injured that’s a big problem.

I’d also like to see Justin in at left back, and move Doyle to be left sided CB. Vestergaard gets exposed for his lack of pace, and Doyle has more pace and is equally good on the ball.

[RowlattsFox]

At times it seems overly complicated, especially for non elite players. And I'm not sure how much benefit it actually achieves compared to playing a traditional way. Its concerning that our strikers barely look like scoring and we can gift chances. 

 

But so far so good. 

[Jimbo]

People need to sit and think a little before questioning the tactics.

 

Take how we ourselves, and just about 75% of the premier League teams set up against Man City. That's how teams will set up against us. They're going to get chances and sometimes they might take them. I've not had a look at our record against Man City since Pep arrived, but I'd be surprised if we'd taken points off them in more than 30% of our games. 

 

In the 3 league games so far, each of the teams we played all had clear cut chances against us and they've all been missed. But we've also done the same. Difference is that we've gone on to win the game. 

 

We've completely dominated teams without looking too threatening, yet. A couple of decent saves yesterday from Alnwick, a poor ish attempt from Mavididi and for the width of the post and we could have 4 up at half time, absolutely no one is questioning the way we play. Fact is we got pegged back by a wonder strike and everyone is a bit on edge still. I think this is more to do with how the fans are still feeling, mentally, after last season.

 

As a fan base, most of us, including me, have to get used to this style of play. But if I stick my championship manager 2 managers hat on, in which I took Kidderminster Harries to the premier league, these tactics have 2 major plus points. Either teams get bored and opposition players begin to try and force the issue, pulling players out of positions, trying play passes that aren't on etc or we grind them down that much so in the final moments of games they're absolutely knackered.

 

Our problem is patience, and I say our problem because I mean the fans, and that's what we have to get used to, believing the moment will come. The trouble the team has right now is making sure they grab that moment because something still isn't clicking right in the final 3rd.

 

Having said that, we're still creating quite a few great opportunities, so as it stands I'm still believing that we're all good right now as we're picking up wins without being at 100% yet. It's still very early days and you can see little passes, flicks, movements that aren't hitting the mark so I'm just hopeful that it will click because we will come up against a team, playing as we are now, that will beat us 1-0 will their only attempt on goal and 28% possession.

[Beachyboy]

6 hours ago, Collymore said:

We'd be on zero points in the Prem after 3 playing thus far but we're 9 out of three in the Championship. What a gulf in class! 

 

If we ever play Vestegaard and Faes at a higher level we'll have our own pants down and won't have anyone to blame - they're an accident waiting to happen. 

 

I really hope Enzo realises all of this...

 

 

He knows the defence isn't great, the injury to Coady has just scuppered the plans. I doubt the club wanna spend big on a centre half. Surely it would be worth trying Justin instead of one of them and moving Doyle inside a bit instead of one of them.

[foxfanazer]

6 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

At times it seems overly complicated, especially for non elite players. And I'm not sure how much benefit it actually achieves compared to playing a traditional way. Its concerning that our strikers barely look like scoring and we can gift chances. 

 

But so far so good. 

I do wish to retract my pre season prediction of Nacho scoring 25 goals this season

[Simmo86]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

This relates to my point about the system grinding down opponents with our retention, of tiring them out, so later chances become more common, guess I am saying it’s not luck but part of the system to seize these late goals.

It’s not coincidence that our opponents in both our home games have had to sub their best midfielders before the end because they’re knackered from all the running.

[Claudio Fannieri]

I don’t agree that the system or style is overly complicated, all it asks of players is too make good decisions and take care of the ball, what this system and style does draw out is players who are technically poor or who make poor decisions when in possession. 
 

From what I am seeing, Hermansem, Doyle, Winks, Ricardo and Mavididi excel in this system, however they will give the ball away at times. KDH, Wilf and Faes have all improved immensely under Enzo but are still making rash/poor decisions at key times which gifts possession back to the opposition, however they will only continue to improve and as the season goes on those mistakes will reduce. 
 

As for the strikers, I think this is where the technical and tactical deficiencies will be exposed, we need a clever striker who can link play and then with clever movement and positioning take advantage of the space and opportunities created, put Piroe up front in this system and I think the front 3 bag 50 goals between them. Have a look at our goalscorers so far this season, 4 goals from our No 8’s and 2 from our wingers yet only one from a striker, we are creating chances but I don’t feel our strikers are on the right wavelength just yet. 

[shen]

Thinking about it, why is an 'inverted' fullback essential in this system?

Couldn't it be a player used to playing in central midfield who is just schooled to defend in a fullback position instead of the opposite? 

I would think that finding a fullback with the qualities in possession requires to play the role is harder to find than a midfielder being asked to defend differently.

[Paninistickers]

7 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

I don’t agree that the system or style is overly complicated, all it asks of players is too make good decisions and take care of the ball, what this system and style does draw out is players who are technically poor or who make poor decisions when in possession. 
 

From what I am seeing, Hermansem, Doyle, Winks, Ricardo and Mavididi excel in this system, however they will give the ball away at times. KDH, Wilf and Faes have all improved immensely under Enzo but are still making rash/poor decisions at key times which gifts possession back to the opposition, however they will only continue to improve and as the season goes on those mistakes will reduce. 
 

As for the strikers, I think this is where the technical and tactical deficiencies will be exposed, we need a clever striker who can link play and then with clever movement and positioning take advantage of the space and opportunities created, put Piroe up front in this system and I think the front 3 bag 50 goals between them. Have a look at our goalscorers so far this season, 4 goals from our No 8’s and 2 from our wingers yet only one from a striker, we are creating chances but I don’t feel our strikers are on the right wavelength just yet. 

Sometimes I'm amazed at the total faith people on here put invest unknown players. 

 

Iheanacho is absolutely miles and miles above anyone in the division in terms of movement and playing intelligent passes that aren't the easy/obvious option. Yet he's tossed aside for this lad Piroe! 

 

As for your other points

 

I think Ricardo has been subdued by his standards this season. If there's a player who gets robbed in midfield so far, it's been him..

 

Mavididi is wayyyy below the technical level of our existing PL players. He wreaks of Championship level. He's a major weak link. 

 

The other wing position is a waste too. Despite the excellent goal by the young lad yesterday, we sacrificed Wilf to keep him on. The decision was awful. We'd be better off with a slower Casadei (or Albrighton) out there.

 

I read a lot of comments at the start from posters on here  about Enzo having a plan B or C win games ....yet yesterday he stuck absolutely rigidly to plan A. We got away with it. 

 

Play. Your. Best. Players. It's always has been the easiest and most effective way to win. Vestergaard and the wingers need to drop out and JJ, Wilf and Kels+Vards should be accommodated. We'd make life much easier if we do. 

 

 

 

 

[Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Sometimes I'm amazed at the total faith people on here put invest unknown players. 

 

Iheanacho is absolutely miles and miles above anyone in the division in terms of movement and playing intelligent passes that aren't the easy/obvious option. Yet he's tossed aside for this lad Piroe! 

 

As for your other points

 

I think Ricardo has been subdued by his standards this season. If there's a player who gets robbed in midfield so far, it's been him..

 

Mavididi is wayyyy below the technical level of our existing PL players. He wreaks of Championship level. He's a major weak link. 

 

The other wing position is a waste too. Despite the excellent goal by the young lad yesterday, we sacrificed Wilf to keep him on. The decision was awful. We'd be better off with a slower Casadei (or Albrighton) out there.

 

I read a lot of comments at the start from posters on here  about Enzo having a plan B or C win games ....yet yesterday he stuck absolutely rigidly to plan A. We got away with it. 

 

Play. Your. Best. Players. It's always has been the easiest and most effective way to win. Vestergaard and the wingers need to drop out and JJ, Wilf and Kels+Vards should be accommodated. We'd make life much easier if we do. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with your sentiment in what you say, although I disagree with most of what you say but most of all what I highlighted. Absolutely, completely, 100% wrong. You do not, always play your best players, you play your best team. There's a huge difference. 

 

How anyone can argue with a 100% record, a team selection that has earned us that and make arguements for changing that is completely beyond me

Edited 20 August 2023 by Jimbo