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By The Blur, in General Chat

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Jattdogg

Jattdogg

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, theessexfox said:

Looking for some advice. I am nearly halfway through a ten-week summer internship at a strategy consultancy - it is the summer of my second and penultimate year at university. In theory, they may offer me a permanent job for when I graduate, with the expectation of an answer at the end of my internship. I quite like some parts of the job but I would want to explore my options and look into different possibilities during my third year before I commit myself to this particular company and sector - anyone got any tips on the best way to play this situation? Essentially I would like this company to be one of the options I seriously consider, but I get the sense that if I were to be offered a position, they would expect a ‘yes’ straight away. Also, I am desperate to take time out to travel before I go straight into a job post-uni, and I’m not sure how easily you can demand that from prospective employers.

 

Some random things to think about. Im sure others have  better advice and comments

 

 

If you ask me there are about 1000 other grads waiting to take your spot.  Also, with brexit coming might be deadly times ahead in the job market.....or not depending on who you talk to in the politics thread lol

 

Its rare (from my exp here in Canada) for a company to wait for a uni graduate to enjoy a long vacation when others are willing to work.  Sure, if it's like a 1 or 2 week quick trip you could ask but if we are talking months it takes a real special company to agree to that.  For what it's worth i understand why you want to do it and don't blame ya one bit. I wish i had travelled more but didnt have the funds back then.

 

For me, when i graduated I.T. had crashed so you took any job offer and dealt with crap pay and long hours. It paid off long term for me.

 

If i was the hiring manager and really liked you that much than i'd give you a 2 to 4 week window to travel before you start tops. That's mainly because i am  nice (insert laugh here) and if i were to hire  an experienced candidate they would need  typically between 2 to 4 weeks notice when quiting a job before starting.

 

What i will  say is that it's okay to ask for time off before you start. Advocate for yourself. Don't be afraid to ask but be prepared to say how it will benefit you as a person. It shows you care about bettering yourself (no matter if it's vacation world learning or if you take a course at  night) and they will appreciate that or not. 

 

In my experience and part of getting older i speak up more, say whats on my mind in a good way and people tend to listen more. Just dont go ballsdeep lol.

 

 

 

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Kopfkino

Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
On 30/07/2019 at 06:37, theessexfox said:

Looking for some advice. I am nearly halfway through a ten-week summer internship at a strategy consultancy - it is the summer of my second and penultimate year at university. In theory, they may offer me a permanent job for when I graduate, with the expectation of an answer at the end of my internship. I quite like some parts of the job but I would want to explore my options and look into different possibilities during my third year before I commit myself to this particular company and sector - anyone got any tips on the best way to play this situation? Essentially I would like this company to be one of the options I seriously consider, but I get the sense that if I were to be offered a position, they would expect a ‘yes’ straight away. Also, I am desperate to take time out to travel before I go straight into a job post-uni, and I’m not sure how easily you can demand that from prospective employers.

 

What parts of Strat do you like and what parts don't you? I know for me I don't like the working style and the fact you produce reports and recommendations without ever working on the operations or implementation and that's not something that could be overcome despite liking the nature of the work. Thus it was best for me to find a job in a business-critical area of a business or work in a start-up environment. If your likes are Strat specific then just go with an offer. At worst you do 2 years and then leave at which point you can go travelling if you still want whilst also being even more employable in a multitude of roles. Basically, my advice is, unless you want to do something that's a completely different track or know what suits you better, take the offer.

 

From my knowledge and what I've heard from people is some firms will at least consider deferring your offer for a year particularly having done an intern. I know someone at Oliver Wyman  and at OC&C that did that. The Big 4 Strat firms will at least consider it as that's in line with Big 4 policy. I can't imagine McKinsey would mind, so yeah it's firm specific and something to discuss with HR if you get an offer. Some firms will also have more than one intake so you could start January instead of September.

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theessexfox

theessexfox

Posted
Posted
On 30/07/2019 at 10:56, Jattdogg said:

 

Some random things to think about. Im sure others have  better advice and comments

 

 

If you ask me there are about 1000 other grads waiting to take your spot.  Also, with brexit coming might be deadly times ahead in the job market.....or not depending on who you talk to in the politics thread lol

 

Its rare (from my exp here in Canada) for a company to wait for a uni graduate to enjoy a long vacation when others are willing to work.  Sure, if it's like a 1 or 2 week quick trip you could ask but if we are talking months it takes a real special company to agree to that.  For what it's worth i understand why you want to do it and don't blame ya one bit. I wish i had travelled more but didnt have the funds back then.

 

For me, when i graduated I.T. had crashed so you took any job offer and dealt with crap pay and long hours. It paid off long term for me.

 

If i was the hiring manager and really liked you that much than i'd give you a 2 to 4 week window to travel before you start tops. That's mainly because i am  nice (insert laugh here) and if i were to hire  an experienced candidate they would need  typically between 2 to 4 weeks notice when quiting a job before starting.

 

What i will  say is that it's okay to ask for time off before you start. Advocate for yourself. Don't be afraid to ask but be prepared to say how it will benefit you as a person. It shows you care about bettering yourself (no matter if it's vacation world learning or if you take a course at  night) and they will appreciate that or not. 

 

In my experience and part of getting older i speak up more, say whats on my mind in a good way and people tend to listen more. Just dont go ballsdeep lol.

 

 

 

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate the honesty. I think the company seems better than most in the way it values and treats employees - it is a small boutique firm and it puts more of an emphasis on work-life balance and informality than most companies in the sector (or so I get the impression). I know that they granted a guy time to travel two years ago, but the company is establishing itself more now and rapidly expanding so they may be less willing to allow it now. I'm having conversations with people at work and I think the best approach is to be honest with what I want and have as much transparency as possible. If it is the case that they want me back in September and they want a decision at the end of the internship then that's the situation, but I will try and be open with my thought process and decision-making and hopefully they will respect that - the people there are nice.

 

My main motivation for going away is to give myself a mental break and recharge - I haven't had any significant break between A-levels and a difficult uni course, and I think I'd come back fresher and more likely to do my job well. I also want to go back to Kenya at a few weeks after I graduate.

 

This is all contingent on me getting an offer, which is by no means guaranteed! But I think I am leaning towards taking the job if I get it, particularly given how hard it can be to get a foot in the door at these kind of places.

 

6 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

What parts of Strat do you like and what parts don't you? I know for me I don't like the working style and the fact you produce reports and recommendations without ever working on the operations or implementation and that's not something that could be overcome despite liking the nature of the work. Thus it was best for me to find a job in a business-critical area of a business or work in a start-up environment. If your likes are Strat specific then just go with an offer. At worst you do 2 years and then leave at which point you can go travelling if you still want whilst also being even more employable in a multitude of roles. Basically, my advice is, unless you want to do something that's a completely different track or know what suits you better, take the offer.

 

From my knowledge and what I've heard from people is some firms will at least consider deferring your offer for a year particularly having done an intern. I know someone at Oliver Wyman  and at OC&C that did that. The Big 4 Strat firms will at least consider it as that's in line with Big 4 policy. I can't imagine McKinsey would mind, so yeah it's firm specific and something to discuss with HR if you get an offer. Some firms will also have more than one intake so you could start January instead of September.

I think I prefer strategy to operations because I like the idea of looking at companies at a broad level and seeing their overall performance, and thinking of ways to improve at a high-level based on the data we have and customer interviews we conduct. A lot of our work is CDD which is interesting in some ways but can become repetitive and a bit thoughtless in that you look at the KPIs and customer feedback and the asset could be in absolutely any sector. Our main sectors are events and digital marketing platforms which are not the most exciting for me, but we have partners with deep expertise in those sectors so the company is establishing itself as the go-to in those industries. I think I'm leaning towards your advice on the two year thing - I generally like the work, I already have an opportunity in front of me (potentially), and I'll have a good set of experiences and skills for whatever I want to do.

 

I don't think consulting is for me in the long-term mainly because the entire premise of helping other companies make money doesn't enthuse me that much. I think it's a good gateway into the professional world and trying to find something that does enthuse me a bit more, plus the variety of the work keeps it reasonably interesting. Another bonus for me is that there seems to be a lot of work for freelance consulters and their day rates are very good so that could always be an option if I'm ever at a loose end. 

 

The company is not a big 4 and is not big enough for hiring cycles, but I think they have generally been positive with people taking time out before so hopefully it wouldn't put them off too much in this case. I like the idea of political risk consulting and in an ideal world I'd explore that option a bit next year with this job still as a potential consideration, but I think they will press me for an answer sooner (if they offer me it, which again is 50/50 for me). I appreciate the advice, and I think I'm leaning towards the option of taking it and getting the experience for two years, but I'll keep talking to the important people involved and see what they say.

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Jattdogg

Jattdogg

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate the honesty. I think the company seems better than most in the way it values and treats employees - it is a small boutique firm and it puts more of an emphasis on work-life balance and informality than most companies in the sector (or so I get the impression). I know that they granted a guy time to travel two years ago, but the company is establishing itself more now and rapidly expanding so they may be less willing to allow it now. I'm having conversations with people at work and I think the best approach is to be honest with what I want and have as much transparency as possible. If it is the case that they want me back in September and they want a decision at the end of the internship then that's the situation, but I will try and be open with my thought process and decision-making and hopefully they will respect that - the people there are nice.

 

My main motivation for going away is to give myself a mental break and recharge - I haven't had any significant break between A-levels and a difficult uni course, and I think I'd come back fresher and more likely to do my job well. I also want to go back to Kenya at a few weeks after I graduate.

 

This is all contingent on me getting an offer, which is by no means guaranteed! But I think I am leaning towards taking the job if I get it, particularly given how hard it can be to get a foot in the door at these kind of places.

 

I think I prefer strategy to operations because I like the idea of looking at companies at a broad level and seeing their overall performance, and thinking of ways to improve at a high-level based on the data we have and customer interviews we conduct. A lot of our work is CDD which is interesting in some ways but can become repetitive and a bit thoughtless in that you look at the KPIs and customer feedback and the asset could be in absolutely any sector. Our main sectors are events and digital marketing platforms which are not the most exciting for me, but we have partners with deep expertise in those sectors so the company is establishing itself as the go-to in those industries. I think I'm leaning towards your advice on the two year thing - I generally like the work, I already have an opportunity in front of me (potentially), and I'll have a good set of experiences and skills for whatever I want to do.

 

I don't think consulting is for me in the long-term mainly because the entire premise of helping other companies make money doesn't enthuse me that much. I think it's a good gateway into the professional world and trying to find something that does enthuse me a bit more, plus the variety of the work keeps it reasonably interesting. Another bonus for me is that there seems to be a lot of work for freelance consulters and their day rates are very good so that could always be an option if I'm ever at a loose end. 

 

The company is not a big 4 and is not big enough for hiring cycles, but I think they have generally been positive with people taking time out before so hopefully it wouldn't put them off too much in this case. I like the idea of political risk consulting and in an ideal world I'd explore that option a bit next year with this job still as a potential consideration, but I think they will press me for an answer sooner (if they offer me it, which again is 50/50 for me). I appreciate the advice, and I think I'm leaning towards the option of taking it and getting the experience for two years, but I'll keep talking to the important people involved and see what they say.

Think you've got your head screwed on right and will do well no matter which route you take. Keep us posted on how things work out. I will be totally jelly if you get to travel!

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Kopfkino

Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, theessexfox said:

 

 

I think I prefer strategy to operations because I like the idea of looking at companies at a broad level and seeing their overall performance, and thinking of ways to improve at a high-level based on the data we have and customer interviews we conduct. A lot of our work is CDD which is interesting in some ways but can become repetitive and a bit thoughtless in that you look at the KPIs and customer feedback and the asset could be in absolutely any sector. Our main sectors are events and digital marketing platforms which are not the most exciting for me, but we have partners with deep expertise in those sectors so the company is establishing itself as the go-to in those industries. I think I'm leaning towards your advice on the two year thing - I generally like the work, I already have an opportunity in front of me (potentially), and I'll have a good set of experiences and skills for whatever I want to do.

 

I don't think consulting is for me in the long-term mainly because the entire premise of helping other companies make money doesn't enthuse me that much. I think it's a good gateway into the professional world and trying to find something that does enthuse me a bit more, plus the variety of the work keeps it reasonably interesting. Another bonus for me is that there seems to be a lot of work for freelance consulters and their day rates are very good so that could always be an option if I'm ever at a loose end. 

 

The company is not a big 4 and is not big enough for hiring cycles, but I think they have generally been positive with people taking time out before so hopefully it wouldn't put them off too much in this case. I like the idea of political risk consulting and in an ideal world I'd explore that option a bit next year with this job still as a potential consideration, but I think they will press me for an answer sooner (if they offer me it, which again is 50/50 for me). I appreciate the advice, and I think I'm leaning towards the option of taking it and getting the experience for two years, but I'll keep talking to the important people involved and see what they say.

 

If it's a smaller firm then, yeah okay it could be a bit of a dick move, but you can be less worried about reneging on an offer so you could still look elsewhere over the autumn be that political risk or applying for MBB, OW etc.

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David Guiza

David Guiza

Posted
Posted

Moved house about 3 weeks ago and our cat, who used to be outside for large periods, barely ventures out now. Usually that wouldn't be a problem but it also means that she won't go to the toilet outside (sorry to those that have cat poo on their lawns :ph34r:) and consequently we have to keep the litter tray inside which, at times, stinks. She also doesn't get rid of energy outside and now attacks you every time you walk past her (in a playful way).

 

Anybody had similar issues?

 

I'm starting to think she's being bullied by the local hedgehog. 

 

Image

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ozleicester

ozleicester

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Moved house about 3 weeks ago and our cat, who used to be outside for large periods, barely ventures out now. Usually that wouldn't be a problem but it also means that she won't go to the toilet outside (sorry to those that have cat poo on their lawns :ph34r:) and consequently we have to keep the litter tray inside which, at times, stinks. She also doesn't get rid of energy outside and now attacks you every time you walk past her (in a playful way).

 

Anybody had similar issues?

 

I'm starting to think she's being bullied by the local hedgehog. 

 

Image

tbf, its best if it doesnt go outside, best way to protect nature.

 

A lazer pointer is a great way to exercise them inside

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Moved house about 3 weeks ago and our cat, who used to be outside for large periods, barely ventures out now. Usually that wouldn't be a problem but it also means that she won't go to the toilet outside (sorry to those that have cat poo on their lawns :ph34r:) and consequently we have to keep the litter tray inside which, at times, stinks. She also doesn't get rid of energy outside and now attacks you every time you walk past her (in a playful way).

 

Anybody had similar issues?

 

I'm starting to think she's being bullied by the local hedgehog. 

 

Image

 

It's pretty normal, in my experience, DG.

 

We've moved a couple of times with our cat and it took a good while before she was comfortable with her new surroundings. An idea you might try is to take her outdoors with you and play with her a while.

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Carl the Llama

Carl the Llama

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Moved house about 3 weeks ago and our cat, who used to be outside for large periods, barely ventures out now. Usually that wouldn't be a problem but it also means that she won't go to the toilet outside (sorry to those that have cat poo on their lawns :ph34r:) and consequently we have to keep the litter tray inside which, at times, stinks. She also doesn't get rid of energy outside and now attacks you every time you walk past her (in a playful way).

 

Anybody had similar issues?

 

I'm starting to think she's being bullied by the local hedgehog. 

 

Image

You should typically keep cats inside for a week or 2 when you move homes anyway just to allow them to familiarise themselves with their new base.  She'll eventually get bored of her new surroundings and start exploring further afield in her own time, the toilet business is a bit unusual though, maybe your garden doesn't have any areas with soft enough soil?  It's mostly a myth that cats shit on lawns, they go for the easily displaceable ground in flowerbeds.  One last thing to note:  If there are any other cats in the neighbourhood then until they've ascertained each other's threat level and developed their daily routines for peacefully sharing territory then this could be another cause for hesitance to explore.

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David Guiza

David Guiza

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Posted

Thanks @Buce, @Carl the Llama and @ozleicester.

 

The toilet issue is the biggest issue at the moment, I can deal with the erratic behaviour because she's always been a bit mental, but when we first got her (aged about 18 months) she only used the litter-tray whilst we locked her inside for the first couple of weeks and then she never used it again - now she'll come in from the outside just go use the damn thing. I'll look into our garden and hopefully resolve that. 

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Thanks @Buce, @Carl the Llama and @ozleicester.

 

The toilet issue is the biggest issue at the moment, I can deal with the erratic behaviour because she's always been a bit mental, but when we first got her (aged about 18 months) she only used the litter-tray whilst we locked her inside for the first couple of weeks and then she never used it again - now she'll come in from the outside just go use the damn thing. I'll look into our garden and hopefully resolve that. 

 

Have you considered putting the litter tray in the garden?

 

You can buy enclosed ones that are weatherproof.

 

45951_PLA_Hagen_Catit_katzentoilette_Jum

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_litter_litter_boxes/hooded_litter_box

Edited by Buce
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Carl the Llama

Carl the Llama

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Thanks @Buce, @Carl the Llama and @ozleicester.

 

The toilet issue is the biggest issue at the moment, I can deal with the erratic behaviour because she's always been a bit mental, but when we first got her (aged about 18 months) she only used the litter-tray whilst we locked her inside for the first couple of weeks and then she never used it again - now she'll come in from the outside just go use the damn thing. I'll look into our garden and hopefully resolve that. 

I only mention it because the picture you posted doesn't show any soft ground where a cat would be able to bury its business and that will be what's putting her off if that's the case for the whole garden.  If there's a spot you can develop into a flower bed then that will solve the problem I imagine (and obviously cat shit is a very good fertiliser so it's a win win if you're into gardening).  In the meantime Buce's post is a good shout to keep her doing her thing outside until she starts exploring a bit more and finds a few good toilet spots.

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