The VAR thread

[messerschmitt]

1 hour ago, justfoxes said:

Then if looked at by VAR the Cockwomble in the box just looked at the handball and didn’t even look at the way Maupay was clearly dragging Vestergaard down by the arm, apparently the  VAR ref has given quite a few contentious decisions against us in the past not saying he’s biased against us but if he can’t do his role properly then he should be removed from his role !

Apart from the foul on Vestergaard, I'm surprised no one mentioned the proximity of his arm from the header, looks about one yard. We had plenty of penalties turned down when although it hits an opponents arm apparently it was so close the opponent didn't have chance to react. In fact I'd be willing to bet we'll get a penalty turned down in similar circumstances with out the foul, and everyone will say his arm was only a yard away, and he couldn't get it out of the way.

[StanSP]

43 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I think you need to wait and see him perform …… of course cut him some slack in his first few games …..

I have watched him. Several times. I watch the A-League very regularly. 

 

@Col city fan can advocate for that

 

Edited 21 September 2021 by StanSP

[lcfc_forever]

4 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

Two days on and this is still annoying me.

 

Given the general reluctance of the VAR to overrule their mates and it seemingly being a tool to justify the on-field decision rather than arriving at the correct one, would it not be a better for the person making the final call to be unaware of what the on-field call was? Admittedly it would require an extra person, but the way I would see this working is that the primary VAR refers the footage to someone who is not aware of the initial call who then views the incident in isolation. If the impartial call is different to the on-field decision, the primary VAR could then either advise the use of the pitch side screen or just overrule the decision given by the referee. 

Agree. Also, people blame VAR, just like they blamed the algorithms for the school results fiasco the previous summer. 

 

But the truth is not the tech but the people managing it. Just like it was Williamson and the school regulator who screwed up, it's the assistant referee and the VAR official who screwed up the decisions. 

 

VAR doesn't seem to be that controversial in European tournaments or international tournaments, suggesting this is an English problem with the calibre of the officials. 

[coolhandfox]

The only way VAR gets better is to learn for other sports like cricket and rugby and allow us to listen to the process, too much under the counter stuff in football. 

 

On an LBW in cricket, they follow a set procedure, first is the bat involved. If the answer is yes, the process stops, and it is not out.

 

With the handball, the first step has a prior infringement (Foul/offside) been committed before moving on to the handball. 

 

Nobody would know in the current process if that was even checked. If the VAR discussion is broadcasted, we would all know. 

 

The problem is a lack of transparency. 

 

Take the Man City vs Southampton game a red card and penalty was overturned, and hours later, nobody has a clue why

Edited 21 September 2021 by coolhandfox

[adam95581]

10 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

The only way VAR gets better is to learn for other sports like cricket and rugby and allow us to listen to the process, too much under the counter stuff in football. 

 

On an LBW in cricket, they follow a set procedure, first is the bat involved. If the answer is yes, the process stops, and it is not out.

 

With the handball, the first step has a prior infringement (Foul/offside) been committed before moving on to the handball. 

 

Nobody would know in the current process if that was even checked. If the VAR discussion is broadcasted, we would all know. 

 

The problem is a lack of transparency. 

 

Take the Man City vs Southampton game a red card and penalty was overturned, and hours later, nobody has a clue why

This would be such an improvement. If there was nothing to hide, why would they not do this?

[Super_horns]

1 minute ago, adam95581 said:

This would be such an improvement. If there was nothing to hide, why would they not do this?

And it would stop dissent or player influence when they all rush to the ref telling him want to do and putting pressure on him.

[coolhandfox]

13 minutes ago, adam95581 said:

This would be such an improvement. If there was nothing to hide, why would they not do this?

100% learn from other sports, cricket has the communication of TV umpiring spot on.

 

Superiority complex, dressed up of not wanting to undermine refs and fear of the unknown. 

 

11 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

And it would stop dissent or player influence when they all rush to the ref telling him want to do and putting pressure on him.

Again learn from other sports do you see Rugby players pressuring a referee. 

Edited 21 September 2021 by coolhandfox

[Super_horns]

4 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

100% learn from other sports, cricket has the communication of TV umpiring spot on.

 

Again learn from other sports do you see Rugby players pressuring a referee. 

No as they actually get punished like then England captain Dylan Hartley found  out few years ago in a major final .

 

Too many players are allowed to get away with it meaning they now see pressuring the officials as part of the game and unfortunately it usually works.

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, messerschmitt said:

Apart from the foul on Vestergaard, I'm surprised no one mentioned the proximity of his arm from the header, looks about one yard. We had plenty of penalties turned down when although it hits an opponents arm apparently it was so close the opponent didn't have chance to react. In fact I'd be willing to bet we'll get a penalty turned down in similar circumstances with out the foul, and everyone will say his arm was only a yard away, and he couldn't get it out of the way.

The arm is above his head in an unnatural position = guilty 

 

the only way that doesn’t get given is if it deflects onto his arm from the original header. If your arm is in an unnatural position then distance between you and the ball is no longer an excuse. 
 

of course, given that he was trying to extricate himself from maupay’s grasp, he would argue that having his arm in the air was completely natural! 

[Rupert Von Suckalemon]

Dylan Hartley actually swore at the referee, and got red carded rightly so. Unfortunately the way football is at the moment where discipline is so poor, if those measures were adopted in football I can’t see many teams ending up with more the 5 a side by the end of the match.

[Dawko]

Barnes has got to learn to stay in an onside position. 

Why was he in a offside position? 

It's OK being where he was if a corner is going straight to him but it didn't. 

Being where he was is just asking VAR to disallow the goal. 

Barnes cost us those 2 goals, not VAR. 

[StanSP]

9 minutes ago, Dawko said:

Barnes has got to learn to stay in an onside position. 

Why was he in a offside position? 

It's OK being where he was if a corner is going straight to him but it didn't. 

Being where he was is just asking VAR to disallow the goal. 

Barnes cost us those 2 goals, not VAR. 

Not necessarily for the 2nd one because he's in a position where a goal shouldn't be disallowed. 

 

 

[SixtiesFox]

Keeping a shroud over the decision-making process helps to ensure the big money clubs hold yet another potential advantage over the rest of the league - as if their massive financial advantage isn't enough. I'm not advancing a conspiracy theory per se, but power and influence certainly hold considerable sway and do affect the decisions-made by  referees both on the field and in the VAR booth. It's no coincidence that there were fewer controversies in the Euros where the influence of big money club teams was not a factor. Does anyone seriously believe that three massive VAR decisions would have gone against Liverpool or Man U in a single game? Not a chance! The silver lining for Leicester fans is that despite the odds being so massively stacked against us we continue to gatecrash their exclusive parties. Makes winning the league and FA cup all the sweeter!.  

[filbertway]

21 hours ago, moore_94 said:

First ever overseas referee for a match - Watford vs Newcastle

 

Has already had a stinker this season, was VAR in Burnley vs Brighton at the start of the season and Brighton actually got done over as Burnley scored from a corner but Maupay was fouled, goal still given 

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/football/news/australian-referee-jarred-gillett-caught-up-in-premier-league-controversy/lsuutenjkylc121mzx9bcvokm

 

 

The one refreshing thing, if he carries it over from the A league is that he actually talks to the players and explains his decision, instead of just smugly waving them away like they don't deserve an explanation.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

34 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Not necessarily for the 2nd one because he's in a position where a goal shouldn't be disallowed. 

 

 

If he gets his lazy arse onside he's in a position where a goal can't be disallowed.

[coolhandfox]

46 minutes ago, Dawko said:

Barnes has got to learn to stay in an onside position. 

Why was he in a offside position? 

It's OK being where he was if a corner is going straight to him but it didn't. 

Being where he was is just asking VAR to disallow the goal. 

Barnes cost us those 2 goals, not VAR. 

I imagine he's role to discourage the GK coming for crosses.

 

Usually the guy on the post is lazy at getting out, and you get away with it.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

10 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I imagine he's role to discourage the GK coming for crosses.

 

Usually the guy on the post is lazy at getting out, and you get away with it.

After the first disallowed goal anyone with an IQ above room temperature has got to know how Brighton are defending and to make sure they're not offside the next time. No excuse for getting caught a second time.

Edited 21 September 2021 by SouthStandUpperTier

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

After the first disallowed goal anyone with an IQ above room temperature has got know how Brighton are defending and to make sure they're not offside the next time. No excuse for getting caught a second time.

IQ doesn't come in to it to be fair. Rodgers players are drilled to play the game like robots. No matter how obvious it is that something isn't working, you keep doing it until he says otherwise

Edited 21 September 2021 by filbertway

[orangecity23]

Further annoyance: 2 seasons back we missed out on the Champions League by the odd point, after a draw against Brighton in the run in. In the last few minutes of that, a cross went in towards Barnes and Dunk slapped it away from him so he couldn't score. Blatant handball. Was there a proper VAR check? Nope. Game restarted seconds later.

 

Yet when a team like Man United plays Brighton, the game can actual finish and they'll Var check and restart it so that their beloved Billion pound superleague nobs can grub a penalty and win.

[Bob Hazels shorts]

Harvey was obviously on their keeper from the corner as a distraction.

 

Staying in his offside position once the ball had been played rendered him useless other than a bit of a nuisance (therefore interfering) but not able to play the ball

 

Possibly a little simplistic, but wouldn't stepping up a stride make more sense and actually be able to contribute positively than lurk about risking being judged to be offside 

[Les-TA-Jon]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

The arm is above his head in an unnatural position = guilty 

 

the only way that doesn’t get given is if it deflects onto his arm from the original header. If your arm is in an unnatural position then distance between you and the ball is no longer an excuse. 
 

of course, given that he was trying to extricate himself from maupay’s grasp, he would argue that having his arm in the air was completely natural! 

 

57 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

Further annoyance: 2 seasons back we missed out on the Champions League by the odd point, after a draw against Brighton in the run in. In the last few minutes of that, a cross went in towards Barnes and Dunk slapped it away from him so he couldn't score. Blatant handball. Was there a proper VAR check? Nope. Game restarted seconds later.

 

Yet when a team like Man United plays Brighton, the game can actual finish and they'll Var check and restart it so that their beloved Billion pound superleague nobs can grub a penalty and win.

This is the exact example I was going to bring up. 

[Spudulike]

Still as pee'd off as the rest of us it seems... 

 

[drumbeat]

It's Barnes' force field radiatring and creating a visual disturbance in front of Sanchez. Clear and obvious. I'm surprised I even have to mention it.

[justfoxes]

If used properly VAR could be amazing, but unfortunately we have a footballing institution that couldn’t organise a Pi55 up in a brewery or even fail to series link anything on Sky Q let alone look at a video properly and see what the hell is going on in a game on a video screen knowing what’s right or wrong.

 This has been said before many times and will keep being said until the FA, Premier League & referees get shown how to manage the decisions correctly,  this was bought in to stop human errors being made but unfortunately they forgot about the Cockwombles watching the replays trying to measure a stupid off side or not notice a foul ?

Edited 21 September 2021 by justfoxes

[SouthStandUpperTier]

3 minutes ago, justfoxes said:

If used properly VAR could be amazing but unfortunately we have a footballing institution that couldn’t organise a Pi55 up in a brewery or even fail to series link anything on Sky Q let alone look at a video properly and see what the hell is going on in a game on a video screen knowing what’s right or wrong, this has been said before many times and will keep being said until the FA, Premier League or referees get shown how to manage the decisions correctly this was bought in to stop human errors being made but unfortunately they forgot about the Cockwombles watching the replays trying to measure a stupid off side or not notice a foul ?

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