The VAR thread

[turlo]

 

I'm surprised Villa's winner wasn't overturned today against Man Utd. The Villa player on the keeper was still in contact with De Gea in an offside position when Hause headed the ball. 

 

Edited 25 September 2021 by turlo

[stu]

13 minutes ago, turlo said:

 

I'm surprised Villa's winner wasn't overturned today against Man Utd. The Villa player on the keeper was still in contact with De Gea in an offside when Hause headed the ball. 

 

I heard Solskjaer interview with the BBC. He actually said that Leicester had two goals flagged for offside for exactly the same thing, so where’s the consistency in the decision making.

 

Quite pleased he called the decision out and mentioned us as maybe they will take note just cause of who they are, but more glad that they lost.

[Super_horns]

Looks offside doesn’t it.

Mind you they got a penalty and missed it so not feeling too sorry for them !

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 hour ago, turlo said:

 

I'm surprised Villa's winner wasn't overturned today against Man Utd. The Villa player on the keeper was still in contact with De Gea in an offside position when Hause headed the ball. 

 

What a joke - they can’t even be vaguely consistent when they look at things in a studio during the game. Perhaps the issue with this are the people in the VAR booth. They’re all refs or ex refs aren’t they? I agree with the comments - get a couple of players in there or ex players.

[Corky]

Linesman didn't flag today, that's the difference.

 

You either give them both or neither.

[Super_horns]

3 minutes ago, Corky said:

Linesman didn't flag today, that's the difference.

 

You either give them both or neither.

Yes that is what Shearer said.

 

1 hour ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

What a joke - they can’t even be vaguely consistent when they look at things in a studio during the game. Perhaps the issue with this are the people in the VAR booth. They’re all refs or ex refs aren’t they? I agree with the comments - get a couple of players in there or ex players.

The pundits keep saying that but no one really puts their hands up …

 

Almost looking and waiting for someone else to do the job .

[Spudulike]

So will that stupid old fool that Sky wheel out on Ref Watch (or whatever its called) spin it sufficiently to back up the officials this time? 

[st albans fox]

de gea is fighting with Watkins as well.  if the header goes in the far side of the goal then offside is given. Because it goes in at the near post the lino doesn’t flag and var doesn’t consider it to be interfering. Could Watkins argue that the keeper is holding onto him too? 

 

whilst there are similarities in that the forward is offside and close to the  keeper, there are differences too. 
 

I would say that if the goalie does his job in trying to keep the ball out of his goal rather than getting involved with the striker then he has a chance to save the header ……

 

interference isn’t an exact science - hence the error on wilfs header last week

[KrefelderFox666]

8 hours ago, Corky said:

Linesman didn't flag today, that's the difference.

 

You either give them both or neither.

Exactly this. If the linesman flags for offside, VAR doesn't overturn it. It's the stupid "clear and obvious" rule that's the problem.

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Exactly this. If the linesman flags for offside, VAR doesn't overturn it. It's the stupid "clear and obvious" rule that's the problem.

Absolutely not

offside does not have ‘clear and obvious’ in its VAR enforcement 

 

the VAR currently has to make the judgment because the protocol doesn’t allow for the ref to review on screen. (Although we know that once they view stuff on screen they always agree with the var opinion).  to me, this is an anomoly in the protocol. The on field ref is supposed to be the primary arbiter. Yet because offside is considered factual, there is no system that allows for him to be asked to review if he feels interference is valid.  the linesman’s flag in situations of interference should only be considered to be a statement of fact. The interference should be judged by the ref at the screen without being ‘led’ by the var. it should be the on field ref making the call viewing the video evidence available. 
 

but the sad fact of the ineptitude of the system is that because the lino didn’t flag today, the var doesn’t consider he needs to get involved. That’s simply an abdication of his job. The flag/non flag should be irrelevant to the decision. A goal has been scored - review the evidence as to whether it’s offside or not!! 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

16 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Exactly this. If the linesman flags for offside, VAR doesn't overturn it. It's the stupid "clear and obvious" rule that's the problem.

VAR should be used independently, and not consider the referees original decision - is that what you’re saying? Seems reasonable to me.

 

I could understand the clear and obvious thing if VAR had poor methods and it was used as evidence to support something or not. But they have far superior methods than the on field officials. They are watching in slow motion on a screen from multiple angles. If they can’t make completely independent decisions what is the point of it? 
 

Also giving the attackers more benefit of the doubt in offside decisions is an odd one - because it introduces subjectivity, a grey area and therefore inconsistency into what is one of the few objective black/white decisions in football.

 

 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

9 hours ago, Corky said:

Linesman didn't flag today, that's the difference.

 

You either give them both or neither.

Which is poor as his clear off side.

 

In all 3 situations the from the linesman position he can't judge whether his interfering due to his side on angle.

 

So it should be flag up and let VAR rule on the interference.

[st albans fox]

33 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Which is poor as his clear off side.

 

In all 3 situations the from the linesman position he can't judge whether his interfering due to his side on angle.

 

So it should be flag up and let VAR rule on the interference.

Because all three were goals, VAR has ruled on the interference aspect.  It’s just been inconsistent which is what drives us all mad! 

[Corky]

That was probably the goal out of the four where the player had the most impact on the keeper as well.

[Jonezy]

56 minutes ago, Corky said:

That was probably the goal out of the four where the player had the most impact on the keeper as well.

I agree. Villa got away with one there. Its just a lottery these days, which proves VAR does not makes a difference. So get rid of it.

[KrefelderFox666]

2 hours ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

VAR should be used independently, and not consider the referees original decision - is that what you’re saying? Seems reasonable to me.

 

I could understand the clear and obvious thing if VAR had poor methods and it was used as evidence to support something or not. But they have far superior methods than the on field officials. They are watching in slow motion on a screen from multiple angles. If they can’t make completely independent decisions what is the point of it? 
 

Also giving the attackers more benefit of the doubt in offside decisions is an odd one - because it introduces subjectivity, a grey area and therefore inconsistency into what is one of the few objective black/white decisions in football.

 

 

 

 

Pretty much yes. Situations should be reviewed without being scared to overrule the ref (i.e. only jumping in when it is clear and obvious). They could even consult the ref more often and say you should have another look.

[KrefelderFox666]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Absolutely not

offside does not have ‘clear and obvious’ in its VAR enforcement 

 

the VAR currently has to make the judgment because the protocol doesn’t allow for the ref to review on screen. (Although we know that once they view stuff on screen they always agree with the var opinion).  to me, this is an anomoly in the protocol. The on field ref is supposed to be the primary arbiter. Yet because offside is considered factual, there is no system that allows for him to be asked to review if he feels interference is valid.  the linesman’s flag in situations of interference should only be considered to be a statement of fact. The interference should be judged by the ref at the screen without being ‘led’ by the var. it should be the on field ref making the call viewing the video evidence available. 
 

but the sad fact of the ineptitude of the system is that because the lino didn’t flag today, the var doesn’t consider he needs to get involved. That’s simply an abdication of his job. The flag/non flag should be irrelevant to the decision. A goal has been scored - review the evidence as to whether it’s offside or not!! 

This is no simple offside though. It's a judgement on whether the player was interfering or not. Everyone could see he was offside, just like Barnes.

[st albans fox]

40 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

This is no simple offside though. It's a judgement on whether the player was interfering or not. Everyone could see he was offside, just like Barnes.

And the law says that the primary judge of what happens is the on field ref.  There is an anomoly here where the VAR is making the call on a judgement.  It’s wrong and needs to be rectified. 

[bovril]

Offside should not be a subjective thing. It's absurd we still have discussions on MOTD along the lines of "for me, that's offside". Make it clearer in the rules what constitutes interfering with play, otherwise just decide that a player in an offside position = offside. 

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

Offside should not be a subjective thing. It's absurd we still have discussions on MOTD along the lines of "for me, that's offside". Make it clearer in the rules what constitutes interfering with play, otherwise just decide that a player in an offside position = offside. 

The latter option is a non-starter.  If being in an offside position is automatically offside, then you completely remove from the game all moves that involve a winger going past the last defender and pulling it back, because the winger will automatically be offside when his teammate touches the ball.

 

It's clear enough to me, thought not to Alan Shearer, that touching the goalkeeper is interfering with play.  Burnley had a goal disallowed for that against Everton in one of several VAR decisions that randomly went against us in the last few weeks. The painful part of that one was that the only reason Pickford ran into Wood was because he was way out of position trying to get back after flapping at a ball six feet over his head.

[Royston.]

VAR needs to be scrapped.

It's multiple inept/bent referees instead of one.

 

It's now a lottery whether an offside player is deemed to be interfering with play or not.

 

[Haywood_6]

VAR should of given Spurs a penalty today. Clear and obvious penalty for the foul on Kane

 

[Strokes]

32 minutes ago, Haywood_6 said:

VAR should of given Spurs a penalty today. Clear and obvious penalty for the foul on Kane

 

Have*

[StanSP]

51 minutes ago, Haywood_6 said:

VAR should of given Spurs a penalty today. Clear and obvious penalty for the foul on Kane

 

@Unabomber

[Unabomber]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

@Unabomber

Yes Stan you called