Corona Virus

[BKLFox]

1 hour ago, pSinatra said:

The government's working guidelines are wishy-washy & open to exploitation. 

 

I'm working & we've been given some guidelines but they feel like nothing more than my employers covering their own arses.  I work outdoors & we have no gloves, no masks, no hand sanitiser, no facility to wash our hands & keeping 2m apart is impossible.  It very much feels like we've been thrown to the wolves & if anything happens to us, it will be our responsibility & not theirs.

 

There's a building site directly across the road from me & there's all sorts of tradesmen working on it.  This week it has been the roofers.  Their telephone number on the side of the van is a Barnsley number.  3 men travelling 40 miles together every morning in the same transit,  They've zero PPE, no wash facilities, fvck all.  They're just cracking on as usual.  I'm sure they're happy to be earning but there is no consideration for their safety.  Then 40 miles home together & back to their families.

 

The working guidelines have been left vague enough that those employers/employees that need the money can carry on as usual.  If the government was serious about people's safety then all realistically non-essential work would be stopped.  The economy cannot afford to do that & people's lives are being gambled with.

 

B&Q being open is about nothing more than money.  I'm sure now is a great time for a lot of people to get some jobs done around the house but what part of that is 'essential'?

Duty of cares on ya employer is it not?

[pSinatra]

4 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Duty of cares on ya employer is it not?

 

I suppose if anything happened to me or any of my colleagues, they'd be up Shit Street

 

There's a general attitude (& it seems to be growing) that it won't happen to them & it's a risk they're willing to take.

 

Not much much use to us if we're dead, or we pass it on to somebody else

[st albans fox]

14 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Duty of cares on ya employer is it not?

Yes it is but if the employees don’t seem to care then there isn’t much you can do.

 

i had six temps is to unload two boxes this week. I gave them all facemasks 

 

one turned up wearing one and he kept it on all day. The others didn’t bother putting theirs on. 

[stix]

1 hour ago, pSinatra said:

 

I suppose if anything happened to me or any of my colleagues, they'd be up Shit Street

 

There's a general attitude (& it seems to be growing) that it won't happen to them & it's a risk they're willing to take.

 

Not much much use to us if we're dead, or we pass it on to somebody else

Not really. A court could never prove that you caught it during working hours. They could say that you were more likely to contract it by working, But it would never stand up in court imo. 

The economy can not last much longer without people beginning to go back to work and business’s starting to reopen. 
 

The aftermath of this is already going to be catastrophic, and that’s if we all go back to work on Monday. 
 

 

[BKLFox]

1 hour ago, pSinatra said:

 

I suppose if anything happened to me or any of my colleagues, they'd be up Shit Street

 

There's a general attitude (& it seems to be growing) that it won't happen to them & it's a risk they're willing to take.

 

Not much much use to us if we're dead, or we pass it on to somebody else

I know it’s hard and sometimes easier said than done but you gotta kick off mate, it’s not right that if you have to work your not given the tools to do it safely 

[BKLFox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Yes it is but if the employees don’t seem to care then there isn’t much you can do.

 

i had six temps is to unload two boxes this week. I gave them all facemasks 

 

one turned up wearing one and he kept it on all day. The others didn’t bother putting theirs on. 

Very true, stupid is as stupid does I guess, just walk them off the premises someone else would love the opportunity I bet 

[pSinatra]

1 hour ago, BKLFox said:

I know it’s hard and sometimes easier said than done but you gotta kick off mate, it’s not right that if you have to work your not given the tools to do it safely 

 

I'm the grounds maintenance manager for a town council.  It's a bit difficult to explain (as I don't fully understand it myself) but our budget is given to the council at the beginning of the year & this includes our wages.  They can't furlough us, because then we will have received our wages + 80% more wages.  The council will effectively have been paid twice.  Their only option is to lay us off & then take us back on when things go back to normal.  That's what I've been told anyway.

 

If I kick off, they'll lay me off.........& I will get zero.

 

It's politics, even if it's amateur politics.  The councillors are answerable to the residents of the town & the staff have to somehow make their whims/crackpot ideas a reality.  We were originally told to only carry out essential duties, but we'll be putting hanging baskets up in a couple of weeks & we're putting up bunting for the 75 year remembrance (even though it's been cancelled nationally).  The councillors are all wrapped up safely watching telly & we're putting up bunting for an event that isn't even happening.

 

[Vlad the Fox]

21 minutes ago, pSinatra said:

 

I'm the grounds maintenance manager for a town council.  It's a bit difficult to explain (as I don't fully understand it myself) but our budget is given to the council at the beginning of the year & this includes our wages.  They can't furlough us, because then we will have received our wages + 80% more wages.  The council will effectively have been paid twice.  Their only option is to lay us off & then take us back on when things go back to normal.  That's what I've been told anyway.

 

If I kick off, they'll lay me off.........& I will get zero.

 

It's politics, even if it's amateur politics.  The councillors are answerable to the residents of the town & the staff have to somehow make their whims/crackpot ideas a reality.  We were originally told to only carry out essential duties, but we'll be putting hanging baskets up in a couple of weeks & we're putting up bunting for the 75 year remembrance (even though it's been cancelled nationally).  The councillors are all wrapped up safely watching telly & we're putting up bunting for an event that isn't even happening.

 

Just a thought, but where do you stand if you ring in on Monday and say you’ve got a temperature and persistent cough? I’m sure they said weeks ago before lockdown that you wont need a doctors note, not sure where you’d stand regarding wages though. 

[pSinatra]

1 minute ago, Vlad the Fox said:

Just a thought, but where do you stand if you ring in on Monday and say you’ve got a temperature and persistent cough? I’m sure they said weeks ago before lockdown that you wont need a doctors note, not sure where you’d stand regarding wages though. 

 

That would be a good idea, but most of the councillors are about 100 years old & still think it's the 1950's.

 

No sick pay.

 

Like I said.  The council have already been given our wages for the year, so if we were ill & got sick pay, nobody would be out of pocket.  The council would actually pocket any money if we were to actually catch anything.  Maybe that's what they're hoping for?

 

The whole situation has caused a rift between us & the councillors.  Like I'm sure it has for many other people who don't feel safe at work & their employers. 

[bovril]

Lockdown clearly getting to the MOTD team. This top 10 thing is one of the worst things I've ever seen. I think they're pissed.

[Vlad the Fox]

1 minute ago, pSinatra said:

 

That would be a good idea, but most of the councillors are about 100 years old & still think it's the 1950's.

 

No sick pay.

 

Like I said.  The council have already been given our wages for the year, so if we were ill & got sick pay, nobody would be out of pocket.  The council would actually pocket any money if we were to actually catch anything.  Maybe that's what they're hoping for?

 

The whole situation has caused a rift between us & the councillors.  Like I'm sure it has for many other people who don't feel safe at work & their employers. 

I know someone who works in a shop and there bosses are similar, letting more people in than should be allowed. The police came and told them to cut the numbers they’re letting in yet they still want more in, families (why you’d want to take your whole family I don’t know) anyone. They’re offering no protection to the staff and funnily enough none of the upper management are around, all safely working form home.

 

I guess you can’t claim or it’s not worth claiming stat sick pay. 
 

A work place injury could be useful, wink wink. 

 

 

[Corky]

6 minutes ago, bovril said:

Lockdown clearly getting to the MOTD team. This top 10 thing is one of the worst things I've ever seen. I think they're pissed.

Mentioned in the main forum that we've almost exhausted everything about football in the past six weeks, we desperately need live games to discuss something new and relevant.

[bovril]

Just now, Corky said:

Mentioned in the main forum that we've almost exhausted everything about football in the past six weeks, we desperately need live games to discuss something new and relevant.

Top ten's quite a good idea though. They've just done it terribly. It's like three blokes in a pub you notice when you're at the bar and you go and sit as far away as possible. 

[Toddybad]

The guardian (I know but their journalism is half decent, it's the columns - like with most papers - that are dirge) has got a report about lockdown being quite a bit longer. Some quotes from scientific advisors to the government:

 

Johnson faces lockdown dilemma as scientists warn over grim virus data

Prime minister returns to work on Monday to cabinet at odds over easing social distancing

• The number of new cases of Covid-19 being diagnosed is still much too high to allow any easing of the lockdown soon, leading scientists have warned, as the virus death toll in UK hospitals passed 20,000 on Saturday.

The home secretary, Priti Patel, described the figure as a “terrible milestone” and a “deeply tragic and moving moment”. She said it showed the need for the British public to “stay strong” and remain at home for the foreseeable future.

A further 813 deaths were reported in hospitals, taking the UK total to 20,319. This figure does not include deaths from Covid-19 in care homes, hospices and in the community.

Asministers came under increasing pressure to ease the lockdown from the business community and Tory MPs concerned at the plight of small firms in their own constituencies, scientists said the drop in new coronavirus cases being reported daily was disappointingly slow.

Professor John Edmunds, a member of the government’s Sage group of Covid-19 experts, said if the lockdown was eased now, the newly enhanced testing and contact tracing system being put in place would be swamped.

“The strategy behind plans to lift the lockdown is based on the idea [that] you could then control the epidemic by testing people for infections before tracing their contacts,” Edmunds said.“However, if we lifted the lockdown now, the testing and tracing system would be overwhelmed. We will have to get case numbers down a lot lower than they are now before we can think of lifting current regulations.”

Professor Keith Neal of Nottingham University agreed that the number of patients being taken to hospital with Covid-19 remained far too high. “This daily figure peaked on 5 April with 5,903 cases. This Saturday it stood at 3,583,” he added. This latter figure was boosted by an extra 1,330 new cases of infected care and health workers, which brought Saturday’s overall total to 4,913.

“It has therefore taken three weeks for numbers of hospitalised Covid-19 patients to decline from a daily total of 5,903 to 3,641.”

Professor Paul Hunter, of the University of East Anglia, added: “There is no doubt this rate of decline is disappointing. Certainly it is far too high to consider lifting lockdown restrictions at present. We need to get numbers down to a few hundred new cases a day before we can do that. Such a decline could take months.”

With no firm indication being given by the government on when social distancing rules might be eased, prime minister Boris Johnson will return to Downing Street on Monday after convalescing at Chequers, having fallen seriously ill with Covid-19 earlier this month.

The prime minister is facing an acute dilemma over the lockdown as members of his cabinet and MPs in his party argue over whether it should be eased to save the economy from collapse – the predominant view in the Treasury – or whether the public should be told to double down on restrictions to keep to reduce the death toll. Matt Hancock, the health secretary, is pushing the more cautious approach.

Former chancellor Philip Hammond said on Saturday it was time that the government announced plans for an exit strategy, while Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, said MPs wanted to see a strategy for desperate businesses. He said: “All members of parliament must be receiving representations from businesses large and small needing further assistance, or some sense of when they can start to plan for at least a partial release from these measures.”

But Patel insisted the government’s five tests for easing the lockdown had to be met in full. “It is clear that is not right now,” she said.

 

[st albans fox]

The guardian data is flawed though

 

Govt have dramatically increased testing capacity over that 3 weeks which means that they will obviously capture more cases now. 
 

still thinking that only a proper lockdown will get a grip of this and we have wasted weeks where we could have been doing this ..... the half hearted lockdown introduced will surely just have a half hearted effect on virus transmission without massive testing capacity being in place. haven’t we got this arse about tit ?  Without the capacity to test, we should have had a more stringent lockdown ??? Once we have better testing capacity and network in place, we can relax that lockdown ??

[st albans fox]

Just to cheer you all up, I noticed that either whitty or Vallance commented that if re infection is indeed common then a vaccine will be unlikely ...... but I doubt that re infection would  be common? I guess there is so much to learn about this CV. I am adjusting my attitude when out though which has been a bit ‘laissez faire’ as I assumed I couldn’t catch it again. 

[foxile5]

Can't see any anything other than a relaxation on the cards. Despite that being the worst idea going. 

[davieG]

13 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

The guardian data is flawed though

 

Govt have dramatically increased testing capacity over that 3 weeks which means that they will obviously capture more cases now. 
 

still thinking that only a proper lockdown will get a grip of this and we have wasted weeks where we could have been doing this ..... the half hearted lockdown introduced will surely just have a half hearted effect on virus transmission without massive testing capacity being in place. haven’t we got this arse about tit ?  Without the capacity to test, we should have had a more stringent lockdown ??? Once we have better testing capacity and network in place, we can relax that lockdown ??

....and just being halfheartedly adhered too especially this last week or two,

[StanSP]

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

22 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

Media seem intent on reporting the bad except for the odd outlier like Capt Tom 

[Toddybad]

It's pretty pointless them releasing numbers publicly if nobody can work out what they actually relate to.

 

They need to capture the non hospital deaths, include them into the headline figure and then report numbers a consistent 2 or 3 days behind if it takes them a while to get a daily total.

[Legend_in_blue]

Watching Marr this morning, the quicker these antibody tests are out and this app is working the better.  All talk of these tests about whether you've got it or not is not as effective as these two running well in tandem.

[st albans fox]

Sikora is too far the other way at times though

 

every single day the previous days death total is between 100 and 150. The majority of the recorded number is day 2 (between 200 and 350). Days 3 and 4 account for the majority of the balance and then the historic data numbers around 100.  That has been consistent throughout but to go into too much detail will likely confuse the message which is that lots of people are still dying and to stay at home ! 
 

I would have thought that most important statistic which should be guiding the govt is daily admissions to ICU. We know that patients can spend considerable time in ICU before succumbing to this disease. so just analysing that terrible statistic is unlikely to give helpful current guidance.  It would be informative if we were shown that ICU stat but I wonder if it is dropping to the extent that govt feel it would send a message to ease off whereas the continual high number of deaths is more likely to keep people on message ??

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

It's pretty pointless them releasing numbers publicly if nobody can work out what they actually relate to.

 

They need to capture the non hospital deaths, include them into the headline figure and then report numbers a consistent 2 or 3 days behind if it takes them a while to get a daily total.

deaths in the community/care homes take weeks to analyse.  I’m not sure exactly what would be achieved by having up to date figures on this anyway.  Other than knowing exactly how many have died ..... it’s not an international competition ..... I think we can assume it’s likely between 25 and 50 percent in addition to those in hospital.  In time, we may find out that it was worse but most countries will have this shocking toll in the end rather than in real time. I think Belgium and France are pretty good on their care home stats. 
 

 

7 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Watching Marr this morning, the quicker these antibody tests are out and this app is working the better.  All talk of these tests about whether you've got it or not is not as effective as these two running well in tandem.

Pretty sure that the quick antibody tests are still failing to prove reliable and those that do take a considerable time to process. I believe that govt are going to get their idea of the percentage infected from the 20k families study currently under way. 

[los dedos]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

....and just being halfheartedly adhered too especially this last week or two,

Where is the evidence of that ? By all accounts we are one of the better nationns at sticking to the lockdown. Only just above Spain and Italy even though they have stricter rules

Graph below is a few weeks old but as far as I'm aware nothing has changed .