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urban.spaceman

Ben Chilwell

By urban.spaceman, in Transfer Talk

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sacreblueits442

sacreblueits442

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Ricey said:

Remember when Chilwell and Choudhury were dropped and disciplined by the club? Rodgers spoke at the time about players having a choice as to how many sacrifices they need to make to reach the top. I suspect that’s what he’s getting at when he talks about improving the squad with players who have a better mentality and ambition.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if both were gone by the end of the window.

...highly unlikely!!!

Rodgers seems to be going around handing out contracts to players who have been given little or no time on the pitch.

  For someone who we are asked to judge when he has his own players in the team he certainly seems pretty intent on holding on to his inherited roster.

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hackneyfox

hackneyfox

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Rodgers already changing his tune, latest comment is "players who want out, we dont want you either".

 

Isn’t this based on a headline from The Mirror claiming Rodgers will tell the players ......

How would they know if we haven’t leaked it, which seems unlikely.

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

And since haven’t given any other games in which he was an outstanding performer even though I disputed that a 45minute performance in circa 4years isn’t exactly substantial. 

You asked for an example of an outstanding performance insinuating that barring Southampton away there have not been any - I gave you one. Another one that comes to mind immediately was against Man City at home on Boxing Day 2018. He was also outstanding in the 5-0 win at home to Newcastle. Also this season, I thought his performance against Chelsea in the league was commanding. Curious as to why such an average player in your eyes was able to become England's left back of choice? His form this year has admittedly not warranted even inclusion in the England squad - the game at home to Southampton he was woeful and was run ragged by Riyad at the Etihad. I read an interesting observation put forward recently by former Chelsea and England winger Karen Carney concerning Ben's possible transfer and players in Chilwell’s age bracket. They are, she suggested, ‘between age’: no longer forgiven for mistakes because they’re no longer young but still inexperienced enough to make those mistakes.

 

11 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

Agreed, yes he is of course still young and the next two years will undoubtedly be a measure of his potential.

And I think that is why the club are so eager to retain and believe in him.

 

11 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

Bertrand was a joke as it’s been signalled on here as someone we replace BC with. 

Ok - that wasn't clear.

 

11 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

Pep: 

Stones £50m 

Mendy £50m 

Cancelo (so far) £58m 

Chygrynski (Ukrainian) £20m 

Danilo £27m 

Mendy was a very astute signing - unfortunate that his arrival coincided with injury. Are you suggesting that Stones was a bad signing? Man City's squad is vast and their signings extensive...and you are correct that Pep is not a defensively minded coach. Walker and Laporte in particular were great acquisitions and to cherry pick what you construe to be bad signings as a pretext to questioning Chilwell's quality - simply because 'Pep' was interested in him is a logical fallacy of staggering proportions. 

 

13 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

Again you’re missing the point i’ve appreciated him but he’s not a £60m player. 

What does that even mean? I'm afraid like it or not that he is according to contemporary valuations and the current market. Recent speculation is that he may become the game's first 100m full back. 

 

13 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

The latter was a joke, however a lot of people have stated my football knowledge is wise beyond my years on numerous (hence the name on here which you amusingly attempted dig out earlier). 

You need to work on your delivery - twice that's happened now. 

 

'A lot of people' - it's a football forum, don't get over excited or start believing your own hype - none of us a truly informed. PretentiousFox93 may have been been more apposite though.  ;)

 

13 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

Never once said that, so you’re creating arguments for yourself there. In or around should be considered not accepted. 

What would those be? You are questioning the valuation of Ben in terms of his worth and potential, yes?

 

13 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

 

I’m in business thanks and doing well on the part side of a chartered profession also, so I’ll gladly refuse your advice:D

 

That's very encouraging to hear during these troubling times. If you don't mind me asking - what profession is that?

 

13 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

See I understand your reasoning now you’ve made it. But the only issue I see is that with his current level of performance his value could be likely to depreciate, whereby if he doesn’t improve we’ve missed a big opportunity to spur on. There’s no saying he will be adequately replaced, but that’s a risk i’d be willing to take. He’s not a Leicester lad and he’s definitely got a knack of pissing off the fans at the moment unfortunately. 

True - the plummeting form is a concern - and as I conceded, certainly nothing that would warrant an England call up. In respect of the latter, it almost invariably only comes knocking once, you have to seize your opportunity. Ben did and acquitted himself superbly in an England shirt - however league form is as you say an essential part of this. I'm not confident that having ascended to first choice LB for his country, Ben would have started had the Euro's taken place this summer. Regarding the latter, populist Leicester fans are perversely pissed off with him even when he performs well and have a history for irrational hatred and pissing on their own players. In the case of Ben, it's something that I really fail to understand. Aside from his dip in form and the approaches from Chelsea, how has he "got a knack of pissing off the fans at the moment"? In what respect? He did miss training in January, which I admit was neither professional nor a positive attitude. 

 

13 hours ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

Potential and being english is what is propping up his value at the moment, I see the potential but i’m not utterly convinced in that he will become a world class left back in the likes of Alba, Alaba, Cole, Marcelo (not now of course), Irwin, Evra, etc etc as he’s not given much to go by other than potential. At some point said potential needs to turn in to frequent world class performances, surely?

Agree entirely - these young players have a small window to make such a transition. I do hope that it isn't closing for Ben. It comes down to the standard rhetoric that we invariably encounter in the popular press, that he needs to move from Leicester to transition to the next level and progress his career at a 'bigger club'. 

 

I would be very keen to retain Ben, particularly given Brendan's coaching prowess - and the chance to continue his development at Seagrave. 

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PrecociousFox93

PrecociousFox93

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Line-X said:

You asked for an example of an outstanding performance insinuating that barring Southampton away there have not been any - I gave you one. Another one that comes to mind immediately was against Man City at home on Boxing Day 2018. He was also outstanding in the 5-0 win at home to Newcastle. Also this season, I thought his performance against Chelsea in the league was commanding. Curious as to why such an average player in your eyes was able to become England's left back of choice? His form this year has admittedly not warranted even inclusion in the England squad - the game at home to Southampton he was woeful and was run ragged by Riyad at the Etihad. I read an interesting observation put forward recently by former Chelsea and England winger Karen Carney concerning Ben's possible transfer and players in Chilwell’s age bracket. They are, she suggested, ‘between age’: no longer forgiven for mistakes because they’re no longer young but still inexperienced enough to make those mistakes.

 

And I think that is why the club are so eager to retain and believe in him.

I’ve literally not called him average so you’re putting words in my mouth there. I said he’s good, but not outstanding, so I’m struggling to see how you can’t understand what I’m saying here. Considering i’ve stated that numerous times then that’s your fault not mine. I 
 

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

Mendy was a very astute signing - unfortunate that his arrival coincided with injury. Are you suggesting that Stones was a bad signing? Man City's squad is vast and their signings extensive...and you are correct that Pep is not a defensively minded coach. Walker and Laporte in particular were great acquisitions and to cherry pick what you construe to be bad signings as a pretext to questioning Chilwell's quality - simply because 'Pep' was interested in him is a logical fallacy of staggering proportions. 

How can Stones be a good signing if Pep has since signed Ake and Laporte £100m combined cost to place centre back and he’s now also behind Garcia in the pecking order? £50m for a third choice centre back is not money well spent considering Stones potential at the time - note potential a word that we’re saying a lot. 


There’s a reason I didn’t include Laporte and Walker - because you asked me for examples of where Pep got it wrong, as you say I obliged. So that’s irrelevant from you. The original point was that even the best managers get it wrong and overpay, actually. 
 

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

What does that even mean? I'm afraid like it or not that he is according to contemporary valuations and the current market. Recent speculation is that he may become the game's first 100m full back. 

It’s a personal opinion.


You seem intelligent and i’m sure we can agree that the market is all over the shop at the moment - we got £85m for Maguire so I imagine the £100m is a severely inflated fee based on that and as you state, pure speculation. 
 

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

'A lot of people' - it's a football forum, don't get over excited or start believing your own hype - none of us a truly informed. PretentiousFox93 may have been been more apposite though.  ;)

 

 Yes, surprisingly I personally know a lot of fans. It’s literally a username it’s not that deep. 

 

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

That's very encouraging to hear during these troubling times. If you don't mind me asking - what profession is that?

Accountancy.

 

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

True - the plummeting form is a concern - and as I conceded, certainly nothing that would warrant an England call up. In respect of the latter, it almost invariably only comes knocking once, you have to seize your opportunity. Ben did and acquitted himself superbly in an England shirt - however league form is as you say an essential part of this. I'm not confident that having ascended to first choice LB for his country, Ben would have started had the Euro's taken place this summer. Regarding the latter, populist Leicester fans are perversely pissed off with him even when he performs well and have a history for irrational hatred and pissing on their own players. In the case of Ben, it's something that I really fail to understand. Aside from his dip in form and the approaches from Chelsea, how has he "got a knack of pissing off the fans at the moment"? In what respect? He did miss training in January, which I admit was neither professional nor a positive attitude.

Agreed, which is my concern based on his valuation which is I think is understandable. I don’t expect him to be loyal as he’s of course from MK. 
 

Agreed he is unfairly treated by a lot of fans and his confidence may of taking a huge bashing from this. I don’t like to slate our players when they perform badly as i’m aware of the effects on mentality (just stating so you’re aware i’m not part of that section of fans). However, he doesn’t help himself by posting on instagram with Grealish / Alli around two crucial games, surely he’s aware of the negative reaction that would cause? FYI, there’s a lot of negative reaction on Twitter and Instagram with some fans giving the “get out of my club” crap (ridiculous, yes). 
 

3 hours ago, Line-X said:

I would be very keen to retain Ben, particularly given Brendan's coaching prowess - and the chance to continue his development at Seagrave. 

Very fair point and I understand. My whole argument and the reason this lengthy discussion started (I’ll try keep replies short and sweet from now to avoid pissing other members off) was that if he was to go I don’t believe it would be the end of the world as such for us - so long as we maximise the amount received and scout effectively for an adequate replacement. Can we agree on that? 

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Fightforever

Fightforever

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

I think Chilwell is all but gone to be honest.

 

A few months ago a rash me would have said good however I do feel like we will miss him more than we realise if he does go.

Hope thomas is another soyuncu where he just steps up. Otherwise get telles as a stop gap.

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, PrecociousFox93 said:

Can we agree on that? 

Yes, indeed we can. But I don't think that a suitable replacement is quite as forthcoming of assured as some members on here seem to believe. We have an asset in Chilwell, and in spite of your misapprehensions that he might regress in terms of market value and performance - which I hear, it is nonetheless an asset that the club recognises and is therefore so intent on retaining and continuing to develop. Meanwhile, his agent driven by the press will be urging him to make the next step and assuring him that any stagnation would be a result of staying at Leicester. 

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PrecociousFox93

PrecociousFox93

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Yes, indeed we can. But I don't think that a suitable replacement is quite as forthcoming of assured as some members on here seem to believe. We have an asset in Chilwell, and in spite of your misapprehensions that he might regress in terms of market value and performance - which I hear, it is nonetheless an asset that the club recognises and is therefore so intent on retaining and continuing to develop. Meanwhile, his agent driven by the press will be urging him to make the next step and assuring him that any stagnation would be a result of staying at Leicester. 

Agreed. We’ll agree to disagree about the replacement aspect, as of course I’d like Chilwell to stay but I personally don’t class him as irreplaceable in the same way as Kante or Mahrez, nor the opposite in which we seem to have replaced Maguire so quickly - so more of a middle ground in my opinion.

 

of course, the owners see the potential appreciation in value and i’m just more pessimistic in relation to that. 
 

Sky and bloomin’ agents don’t help I agree.

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mozartfox

mozartfox

Posted
Posted

This thread reminds me so much of the Slab-head thread with a hint of the Nicky Maynard soap opera.  Has it actually been established if he has ask to leave or we still at the  ‘Sky Sports ‘understands’ stage?? If he is going, can he fook off now so we can concentrate on getting that lamppost in from Southampton.

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messerschmitt

messerschmitt

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

All very good shouts, Telles is very much like Ricardo in that he's been under the radar and then stayed in Portugal a bit too long. I think we'd be a very good choice for him had we got top 4 and still a good option if none of the elite want him.

 

Some other targets

 

1) Ismail Jakobs from Koln

2) Owen Wijndal from AZ

3) Luca Pellegrini from Juventus (they need money)

4) Faitout Maouassa from Rennes

How do you manage to watch so much football, I seriously wonder if some of our scouting team are as methodical as you.

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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4 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

How do you manage to watch so much football, I seriously wonder if some of our scouting team are as methodical as you.

I don't watch anywhere near as much as I used to but I still read up a lot on the top European leagues and if players catch my eye from stats then I'll start trying to watch a few games of them. In reality I've not that much knowledge of a lot of players and talk a load of bull shit so take what I suggest with a pinch of salt 😂

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Tom12345

Tom12345

Posted
Posted

foxesofleicester.com/2020/07/31/chelsea-locked-talks-leicester-city/amp/

 

A useful reminder about the level of football journalism: very low. Though at least this piece is honest about how the story is getting traction.

 

First of all, the first paragraph states: “Fresh reports from believable sources have backed speculation that Chelsea are locked in talks with Leicester City over Ben Chilwell.”

 

What are those reports from believable sources? Let’s read on:

 

”It appears to Foxes of Leicester” - so this is just an opinion.

 

“Why we’ve arrived at that assessment is of course due to the increasing number of reports. Additionally, the speculation is now in broadsheet newspaper/online gossip so is automatically more feasible.” - Wow. So it can just be one report written by someone who has no idea. Then it gets reported / forwarded online - ie. going viral - and then it gets picked up by “broadsheet newspaper/online gossip” and then all of a sudden, that single report becomes more “feasible”.

 

Wow. No checking with the clubs, the player, no one. Just online gossiping. Then it becomes a story from believable sources.

 

Nothing more than us fans writing something on a thread in FT really.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Tom12345

Tom12345

Posted
Posted (edited)

I personally prefer to keep Chilwell - he just needs some better coaching and be dropped when he plays badly or when he is not suited instead of being a guaranteed starter.

 

But if we get big money from him, can BR spend it? And where is the unspent money for Maguire?

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Xen

Xen

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12 hours ago, Fightforever said:

He looked decent there but it could have been a one off.

At Luton he was a LB primarily (31 games in 18/19) who sometimes filled in at RB, so I don't think there'd be any worry about how well he does on the left for us. Might even do better on that side when Ricardo is back.

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