Popular Post Corky Posted 29 October 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 29 October 2020 Corbyn comes across as a right prat. How Labour, or a section of it, ever believed he would win an election is beyond me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 18 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm not getting involved in any more arguments. I just couldn't resist the gloat. I don't blame you on either point. I'd have shown as little resistance - and have surprised myself by enjoying arguing less recently (always thought I loved arguing). I've had no delusions about the Hard Left since the 1980s - a strange mix of narcissism/virtue signaling and rigid thinking plus fanatical commitment and an ability to mislead the gullible.....not a good combination. I was just thinking that the 2 Corbyn brothers both have all those qualities, just in pursuit of different causes. In the interests of honesty, I should shamefully confess that I ended up trying to vote for Corbyn as leader in 2015 - out of despair at the other candidates, not a belief in the Hard Left (vote not registered due to computer cock-up). I expected to support Burnham back then, as he was closest to my pragmatic left politics, but he ran a stinker of a leadership campaign, Liz Kendall was too Blairite for me and Yvette Cooper too cynical & associated with the Brown/Blair regime. I'd come to my senses within a year and voted for Owen Smith in 2016 in an attempt to get rid of Corbyn. In truth, I should have been voting Burnham 1, Cooper 2, Kendall 3 in 2015! I wonder how politics would have been different for the past 5 years - and the next 4 - if one of the others had won in 2015? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 2 minutes ago, Sampson said: An independent body conducting a report found there was anti-semitism problems and enough wasn't been done in his party while he was leader. Then instead of owning up to, acknowledging it or apologising for it to it, he goes on a radio interview and says the report is dramatically exaggerating the problem of antisemitism under his leadership. It's for the latter he's been suspended. Not the report itself. Yes I've seen that but I wasn't actually sure what the actual anti-semitism problems were. Are Labour mps all getting together in secret to deny the holocaust or something? I keep seeing the anti-semitism line but everytime the news mentions it they don't actually talk about examples or anything. I'm not a Labour bumboy or anything but a small part of me thinks this has been kind of a smear campaign by the right wing press. I'm assuming something must have happened though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 Imagine what MattP would say to all of this.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 8 minutes ago, Wymsey said: Imagine what MattP would say to all of this.. I can almost sense his itchy finger hovering over the "rejoin forum" button, Wymes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 17 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: I can almost sense his itchy finger hovering over the "rejoin forum" button, Wymes! He's waiting til we've Taken Back Control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 So how do we think this will play out for Starmer nationally? Kevin Maguire just said on 5live that there could be a vote of no confidence from the membership but surely on an electorate level this will only boost him. The party eating itself from within once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark 'expert' Lawrenson Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 2 hours ago, Corky said: Corbyn comes across as a right prat. How Labour, or a section of it, ever believed he would win an election is beyond me. Horrible little man. Cost Labour the last election, they never gave themselves a chance. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 59 minutes ago, Lionator said: So how do we think this will play out for Starmer nationally? Kevin Maguire just said on 5live that there could be a vote of no confidence from the membership but surely on an electorate level this will only boost him. The party eating itself from within once again. From a personal point of view, voted for all 3 main parties in the past (including the SDP back in the day) and would consider myself a floating voter. Live in Portsmouth South too which has had Lib Dem, Conservative and Labour politicians in the last 3 elections, so I live in a pretty swing-constituency where my vote matters. For the first time in my voting life, I didn't vote at last year's election, because I didn't think any of the 3 main leaders were fit to lead any nation. If there was as election tomorrow I'd vote Labour without a second thought. Starmer is the only leader in the past 5 years of the main parties who's got any air of stability about him which is desperately needed in these times of chaos. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 1 hour ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said: Horrible little man. Cost Labour the last election, they never gave themselves a chance. Unlike Starmer, there's quite a few within the party who have quite horrid viewpoints and like to create a racist/homophobic etc controversy or two. Something which has been prevalent in the party for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 5 hours ago, Christoph said: Yes I've seen that but I wasn't actually sure what the actual anti-semitism problems were. Are Labour mps all getting together in secret to deny the holocaust or something? I keep seeing the anti-semitism line but everytime the news mentions it they don't actually talk about examples or anything. I'm not a Labour bumboy or anything but a small part of me thinks this has been kind of a smear campaign by the right wing press. I'm assuming something must have happened though. I didn’t realise you really are living at the North Pole ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 29 October 2020 Share Posted 29 October 2020 I do feel a bit stupid tonight, I would class myself as a Corbynite between 2015-2017 but the response to losing the 2017 election really turned me off. I always felt that anti-semitism was a stick to beat Corbyn with and felt that others were out to get him. But it became evident that there were real issues within the left of the party. Being 'right' is more important to Corbyn and the likes than being in power and that is a terrible way of doing things. Anyway, firmly on the Keir train now and I think today's actions can't have been easy, and ideally he wouldn't had to have done it but Corbyn's response was that of an idiot. He handed it to Keir on a plate. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 The hardcore, hard left socialists genuinely believe the country wants them in power. They constantly told the moderates in the party they were "Blairite scum" To win power you have to appeal to the middle ground, the floating voters, the soft left and soft right. They basically said anyone who wasn't a Corbynite / hard left devotee they should "fook off and join the Tories" which is what they did. Nobody to blame but themselves, they helped hand power to Boris on a plate. Labour are a bit like Yorkshire County Cricket Club in the old days - internal struggles never far away rather than uniting for success. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 7 hours ago, Wymsey said: Imagine what MattP would say to all of this.. 7 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: I can almost sense his itchy finger hovering over the "rejoin forum" button, Wymes! Not unless Trump wins next week - otherwise he knows he's going to get dragged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 9 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: The hardcore, hard left socialists genuinely believe the country wants them in power. They constantly told the moderates in the party they were "Blairite scum" To win power you have to appeal to the middle ground, the floating voters, the soft left and soft right. They basically said anyone who wasn't a Corbynite / hard left devotee they should "fook off and join the Tories" which is what they did. Nobody to blame but themselves, they helped hand power to Boris on a plate. Labour are a bit like Yorkshire County Cricket Club in the old days - internal struggles never far away rather than uniting for success. After the walloping Labour got in the election a Corbynite Facebook friend of mine shared this on Facebook (their friend’s comment is underneath it) I replied, asking if we could just have neither Nazism OR Communism, and they called me a centrist cvnt and blocked me. Which really just explains everything about Labour the last few years. It’s been overrun by activists, who would much rather be right than be effective. We know what the Tories are going to do. Tories are going to Tory. Corbyn gifted them the biggest majority in 80 years and still can’t admit he’s a failure. He was such a shit leader I’m almost convinced he’s a genius Tory plant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salisbury Fox Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: He was such a shit leader I’m almost convinced he’s a genius Tory plant. And they only had to pay £3 each 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majaco Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 If we could make two new signings before the Leeds game, we could have Cornyn on the left wing and Starmer on the right wing. In football terms I'd still go Barnes and Cenghis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 12 hours ago, st albans fox said: I didn’t realise you really are living at the North Pole ..... lol. But really what are the big examples? I'm not a Corbyn nuthugger or anything. Like I said I watch the news in the morning before work and I always say "anti-semitism" with labour but every part in the news reports would talk about the anti-semitism but without actually a lot of examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 19 minutes ago, Christoph said: lol. But really what are the big examples? I'm not a Corbyn nuthugger or anything. Like I said I watch the news in the morning before work and I always say "anti-semitism" with labour but every part in the news reports would talk about the anti-semitism but without actually a lot of examples. I think part of the issue here is that an awful lot of what goes on is private messages and the like. It’s not as explicit as a Labour MP posting “The Holocaust never happened but it should” on Twitter. Instead, it’s more subtle and hidden from the public than that. It’s the kind of persistent, targeted harassment and abuse that has pushed Jews - including MPs - out of the party. The problem highlighted by the report isn’t then that such abuse happened. It happens across all parties and across society unfortunately. What’s significant is the report’s damning indictment of Labour’s failure to deal with such cases within their own membership properly. It shows that at best they tried to ignore it and at worst they waved it through the door with a welcome. What it has done is provide official confirmation that those claiming abuse against them and claiming that the Labour Party leadership were hanging them out to dry were correct and telling the truth. The proof of anti-semitism is implicit, and doesn’t need examples. If you do want to know the examples, you’re probably better off asking the likes of Margaret Hodge or Luciana Berger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 Some personally surprising polls out today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 5 hours ago, Salisbury Fox said: And they only had to pay £3 each Weird how everyone forgot about that! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/18/tory-party-member-votes-for-jeremy-corbyn-three-times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 30 October 2020 Share Posted 30 October 2020 I was enjoying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 31 October 2020 Share Posted 31 October 2020 There goes the 'Captain Hindsight' stick which Boris has used against Starmer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 31 October 2020 Share Posted 31 October 2020 Some interesting politics - the hard brexiteers don’t want another lockdown because the additional economic damage will tie in with the period of leaving ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 31 October 2020 Share Posted 31 October 2020 17 minutes ago, st albans fox said: Some interesting politics - the hard brexiteers don’t want another lockdown because the additional economic damage will tie in with the period of leaving ....... There couldn't be a worse time to be leaving, particularly on WTO terms. Add to that, a probable Democrat victory in the US means the much vaunted deal with them is unlikely to materialise. Shitshow doesn't begin to describe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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