The Politics Thread 2020

[UpTheLeagueFox]

 

[Footballwipe]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

It makes for some grim reading alright. Usual Twitter bampots still shouting into thin air in defence of a man who, without any sense of remorse or contrition, condemned the poorest in our society to at least four more years of Tory government mind. Imagine being that lacking in self-awareness or devoting so much energy to a cult of one person in a movement that's meant to represent millions.

They're in exactly the same bed as the Trump supporters. So much in common they can't actually see it. It's sickening.

 

I say it all the time, too much on here. Always happy to be in opposition, shouting at a cloud. They'd have shit themselves if they actually won.

 

They'll condemn the poorest to many more years if they keep their hostility to an actual vote-winning Labour opposition up. But it's worth it. because they can continue their cycle of opposition and screaming. They (like all cult followers in politics on both sides) are a damning indictment on our society.

[Bilo]

The response from Corbyn cultists is as predictable as it is depressing. The gaslighting, conspiracy theories, abuse and invective continues unabated. 

 

It's not the previous Labour leadership that's the problem, it's the EHRC. It's Margaret Hodge. It's Ruth Smeeth. It's Israel. The complete lack of self-awareness is frightening. 

 

Corbyn's statement is every bit as tone deaf in declaring the findings to be exaggerated by political opponents inside and outside of the Labour Party. I've seen fewer dog whistles in Pets At Home. Grossly irresponsible and he knows exactly what he's doing. 

 

It's easy to do what Hodge has done today and declare him an irrelevance with no political power, but that's all too neatly cathartic. Thousands of those who joined between 2015 and 2019 because of him will see him as the victim, when he's nothing of the sort. Failure to act, or to dismiss him as the kindly victim of political machinations, will allow that narrative to continue. He needs to be held to account. 

 

Ironically, the EHRC recommendations mean that it is not in Starmer's gift to unilaterally expel him from the Labour Party. Only the newly installed independent complaints panel can do that. However, is it really unimaginable to withdraw the whip? Claudia Webbe, rightly, had hers suspended and I'd argue Corbyn has done far more to bring the party into disrepute. 

 

It's a huge, politically sensitive, decision for Starmer to make. But it'd certainly show his steel in tackling antisemitism. Milne and Murphy should sweat too. And, realistically, which Labour members would he lose as a result if they started resigning in solidarity? Exactly the kind who turned the party into electoral kryptonite.

 

The time for tough words and soft action has well and truly passed. Jewish women MPs were threatened, abused and harassed out of the party by racist, misogynistic bullies. These people only understand strength through actions. It's time to show exactly that.

[Voll Blau]

 

That was quick.

[Bilo]

4 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

That was quick.

And that, my friend, is leadership. 

[Fightforever]

The corybn faction of the party should really just start their own party it will be better for the nation. The Tories being unopposed will put the final nail in the coffin for the working class. 

[StanSP]

10 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

That was quick.

I think they obviously had it planned anyway - didn't Labour know the initial findings a few months ago but wanted to wait for the final outcome today? The fact Corbyn said he doesn't accept all the findings of the report anyway just hastened the decision from Labour now to make that move. A correct one. 

 

[ajthefox]

3 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

As @Kopfkino predicted...

 

 

 

We are Corbyn has got to be one of the worst hashtags, wtf does that even mean.

[Bilo]

7 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

The corybn faction of the party should really just start their own party it will be better for the nation. The Tories being unopposed will put the final nail in the coffin for the working class. 

Join up with Galloway's new lot and call it the National Socialist British Worker's Party?

[Carl the Llama]

Good news all around, I say that as someone who held a lot of fondness for many of Corbyn's lefty policies.  

1 hour ago, Footballwipe said:

They're in exactly the same bed as the Trump supporters. So much in common they can't actually see it. It's sickening.

 

I say it all the time, too much on here. Always happy to be in opposition, shouting at a cloud. They'd have shit themselves if they actually won.

 

They'll condemn the poorest to many more years if they keep their hostility to an actual vote-winning Labour opposition up. But it's worth it. because they can continue their cycle of opposition and screaming. They (like all cult followers in politics on both sides) are a damning indictment on our society.

Don't be daft, these people are a disappointment to us all but you can only blame them for their actions and for discouraging support for labour, you can't blame them for the effects of the Tory rule that resulted from it.  Tories have agency too as do their voters, having weak opponents doesn't prevent them from choosing to do right by the nation... at least it shouldn't

Edited 29 October 2020 by Carl the Llama

[ealingfox]

7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Good news all around, I say that as someone who held a lot of fondness for many of Corbyn's lefty policies.  

Don't be daft, these people are a disappointment to us all but you can only blame them for their actions and for discouraging support for labour, you can't blame them for the effects of the Tory rule that resulted from it.  Tories have agency too as do their voters, having weak opponents doesn't prevent them from choosing to do right by the nation.

 

This. I keep reading words to this effect and whilst I understand the sentiment, it's nonsense. The people responsible for the actions of a Tory government are the Tory government and the people who voted for them, nobody else. Certainly not people who actively campaigned against them, no matter how unsuccessfully.

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Good news all around, I say that as someone who held a lot of fondness for many of Corbyn's lefty policies.  

Don't be daft, these people are a disappointment to us all but you can only blame them for their actions and for discouraging support for labour, you can't blame them for the effects of the Tory rule that resulted from it.  Tories have agency too as do their voters, having weak opponents doesn't prevent them from choosing to do right by the nation... at least it shouldn't

 

2 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

This. I keep reading words to this effect and whilst I understand the sentiment, it's nonsense. The people responsible for the actions of a Tory government are the Tory government and the people who voted for them, nobody else. Certainly not people who actively campaigned against them, no matter how unsuccessfully.

I've heard similar arguments purporting that it's somehow the Dems fault that Trump is doing what he's doing.

 

Like, how the powerful act when the people they're ideologically opposed to are without power tells you a lot about them.

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Tuna]

 

[Innovindil]

Part of me actually feels kinda bad for old jezza. 

 

The other part of me is going to enjoy twitter immensely for the next few hours. 

 

 

 

[Finnaldo]

19 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Part of me actually feels kinda bad for old jezza. 

 

I don’t, in 2015 someone it was necessary for someone to reintroduce the type of policy the 2017 Manifesto held, but (with hindsight) it needed to be delivered by someone with actual leadership qualities and not a professional student protestor with historical links to the IRA and seedy Palestinian groups that loop all the way to German Neo-Nazi groups. 
 

As with the last three PMs, I can’t feel sorry for someone who actively looks to be elected to a job and fvcks it, it’s not exactly national service. In the same vein, Labour has left his successor plenty to do to make Labour a credible threat and I have no sympathy for that. 

[Desabafar]

i think suspending him is for show, he will be allowed back after investigation because his post doesnt break a rule?

[String fellow]

Imo, JC is as much in denial about the reality of anti-Semitism within Labour as his bother Piers is about the reality of COVID-19. What a pair of losers they are.

[Webbo]

I remember being told I was making all this up, that I was a propagandist. It's good to see that all my accusers could see through him all along.   

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I remember being told I was making all this up, that I was a propagandist. It's good to see that all my accusers could see through him all along.   

Yeah, but you also said Trump "wasn't worth worrying about", Webs.

 

Score draw.

[Alf Bentley]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I remember being told I was making all this up, that I was a propagandist. It's good to see that all my accusers could see through him all along.   

 

Just because something is true doesn't mean someone is NOT exploiting it for propaganda. 

 

You must be similarly excited at being proven right that austerity was necessary, Brexit will be great for Britain and the Tories have a genius for economic management. 

 

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, but you also said Trump "wasn't worth worrying about", Webs.

 

Score draw.

 

 

1-3 down at home - and even the goal he scored was a dodgy VAR penalty. 

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Just because something is true doesn't mean someone is NOT exploiting it for propaganda. 

 

You must be similarly excited at being proven right that austerity was necessary, Brexit will be great for Britain and the Tories have a genius for economic management. 

 

 

 

1-3 down at home - and even the goal he scored was a dodgy VAR penalty. 

I'm not getting involved in any more arguments. I just couldn't resist the gloat.  

[Christoph]

What did he actually do?

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

 

I've heard similar arguments purporting that it's somehow the Dems fault that Trump is doing what he's doing.

 

Like, how the powerful act when the people they're ideologically opposed to are without power tells you a lot about them.

It's the old "why are you hitting yourself" on a national scale, except the bullies are being actively encouraged by their victims.  Bizarre.  Depressing.

[Sampson]

28 minutes ago, Christoph said:

What did he actually do?

An independent body conducting a report found there was anti-semitism problems and enough wasn't been done in his party while he was leader.

 

Then instead of owning up to, acknowledging it or apologising for it to it, he goes on a radio interview and says the report is dramatically exaggerating the problem of antisemitism under his leadership.

 

It's for the latter he's been suspended. Not the report itself.

Edited 29 October 2020 by Sampson