The Situation.

[SpacedX]

2 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Well I’ve said for quite a while now and people have probably noticed how I’m so pro Tielemans

In all honesty, I don't think anyone has noticed you. It's a large forum. 

[deanolegend1989]

5 minutes ago, martyn said:

Tielemans has been poor for sizable amount of the season. 

 

It got to the point where 1 potential defence splitting pass could no longer be used as cover for dithering on the ball, giving up cheap possession, offering very little defensively and looking out on his feet at 60 minutes. 

 

Everyone is aware of his quality, but the evidence of that has not been seen anywhere near enough this season. He should be playing now though, we need to try and get that 11 who steamrollered October and November performing quick before we stuff an unassailable position up, and that means starting games at a high tempo and taking games by the scruff of the neck with those players. 

 

Mendy is an adequate squad man, best utilised in tricky away games where a more pragmatic midfield makes sense, and to give others a rest when fixtures pile up. He isnt going to look great alongside Ndidi when you're expected to set the pace in the game, and when Maddison turns into declined midfield Rooney again to pick up the ball far too deep.

 

 

It’s an easy thing to say Mendy is a squad man..or he isn’t going to look good next to Ndidi etc. It’s irrelevant who you play him with because he doesn’t have the ability to do anything at a high level. He works hard but he’s just not good enough.
I keep repeating myself but I find it hard to understand how people can not see that he’s out of his depth and very limited.

[tickler28]

1 minute ago, Fktf said:

With all the arguments about home and away advantage and the integrity of the competition, the biggest thing that was overlooked was how teams would respond to what is essentially having an off season followed by an immediate return to competitive football. 

 

If you had to implement a 3 month break before a return straight to competitive action, you'd want to be a team that holds the ball and passes people to death. You'd also want the sort of quality man city have in the squad depth, especially given the 5 sub rule. 

Yep totally agree with this 5 sub rule does nothing for us (proven by Rodgers still only using 3 in both games). Chelsea and Man City have a huge advantage because of it. 

 

Also agree with passing teams that can cut open defensives like Man City will thrive ATM because every team is basically keeping a deep line. For us it's no good at all. Home supporters demand their teams to go forward but without fans they can play like the away team if they like (Everton did v Liverpool) I think until we play teams that have to go for a win or better still have nothing to play for we are going to see the same as we saw today 😕

[Freeman's Wharfer]

The reality is that we’ve been lower mid table form for a long time now. It’s amazing we’ve stayed where we have and it’s only thanks to the inconsistency of everyone else around us.

 

They’ve been consistently inconsistent. We’ve been consistent in two patches: consistently good up until December and consistently bad from December onwards.

I get that we’re in an unbelievable position and whilst we remain there we should all be happy. But we shouldn’t be avoiding asking questions and I hope Rodgers isn’t holding off asking questions right now because, if not, by the time they are asked, it could be too late on current showing.

[martyn]

9 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

It’s an easy thing to say Mendy is a squad man..or he isn’t going to look good next to Ndidi etc. It’s irrelevant who you play him with because he doesn’t have the ability to do anything at a high level. He works hard but he’s just not good enough.
I keep repeating myself but I find it hard to understand how people can not see that he’s out of his depth and very limited.

Ndidi was crap alongside Mendy under Puel in the 2DM system. Its a fault of the system and tactics on the day rather than the individual player himself. 

 

Mendy is fine as a 2nd/3rd choice DM screener. He gets about the pitch fine, reads the game well, and is mostly solid in possession. Rodgers clearly likes him as well. 

 

Not all of your midfielders can be the creative sort. He is fine as Ndidi cover and squad filler, i dont want to see him alongside Wilf at home against average opposition. 

 

 

Edited 23 June 2020 by martyn

[chapero82]

Wolves are the ones I worry about the most tbh I can see them winning all their games 

[Scotch]

1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

In reply to everyone having a go at me for daring to question Mendy, then you honestly must have been watching a different game and wernt born in the Puel era.

Its easy to say ‘he’s a water carrier’ but let’s be honest he’s just talentless and offers nothing.

To everyone who thinks Mendy should be playing in this team, let alone the premier league here’s what I say:

’We are going for champions league man! Come on! Dilly ding dilly dong! Wake up!’

seriously WAKE UP!

Maybe you think there’s another reason that we have almost less than 0 threat for 90 minutes?

Id argue we were below 0 at -0 in terms of how much of a threat we were today..in embarrassed to watch that performance.

 

 

Let's get this right, you believe that a defensive midfielder is the reason we dont create enough chances? 

 

Playing 2 defensive midfielders? Yes

 

Our main striker not being involved enough? Yes

 

Our key creatives players like Maddison and Youri being below par? Yes

 

The quality of one CDM? Don't be daft. 

[Manini]

4 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

The reality is that we’ve been lower mid table form for a long time now. It’s amazing we’ve stayed where we have and it’s only thanks to the inconsistency of everyone else around us.

 

They’ve been consistently inconsistent. We’ve been consistent in two patches: consistently good up until December and consistently bad from December onwards.

I get that we’re in an unbelievable position and whilst we remain there we should all be happy. But we shouldn’t be avoiding asking questions and I hope Rodgers isn’t holding off asking questions right now because, if not, by the time they are asked, it could be too late on current showing.

Also poses the big, big question - what the **** are we going to do in the group stages if we do make it to the champions league? This squad needs 100/120 million thrown at it to even get near competing in Europe, and even then every single signing has to perform to make that a good ROI, where does that actually leave us, considering we probably have just less than a 50/50 hit rate with transfers over the last 2/3 seasons? 

[inckley fox]

1 minute ago, deanolegend1989 said:

I can’t comment on YT vs Watford as I didn’t actually see any of that bar highlights.

However every other game since Southampton I’ve seen live and YT , although not at his best, is still far superior.

It reminds me of the Liverpool team under benetez, Gerrard Mascherano and Alonso. If Gerrard isn’t at his best do we drop him for Lucas? No, because same thing, if he’s below his best he’s way better than Lucas.

YT is just a top player, when he’s off form, he still offers more. Mendy and Praet(to a lesser extent) just have a lower ceiling. They work hard, maybe even as good as they can, but we lack something without YT.

But that wasn't the case in our only league win in the past seven games. His poor form over this period, coupled with his occasional problems lasting 90 minutes game-in game-out, would explain why he wasn't on the team sheet tonight.

 

And, as we saw when he came on - and against Watford - if we play slow, repetitive build-up football, we'll struggle to create chances whether he's playing or not.

[Manini]

2 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

Wolves are the ones I worry about the most tbh I can see them winning all their games 

And if they do that they are completely worthy of a champions league spot because they’ll be one of the top teams in the division. I agree with you FWIW, I think they have a lot more about them than we do currently, we just had a very good start to the season. 

[Sacrebleuits442]

2 hours ago, Beechey said:

Our midfield has to be Ndidi, Maddison and Tielemans (with Praet rotating in as needed), we know as a fanbase that an Ndidi-Mendy midfield just doesn't work. I've nothing against Mendy, but he doesn't suit one of the free 8 positions.

We seem desperate for a striker that can come deep and link up play as well. The space between our midfielders and striker is so significant.

... I don’t agree with your conclusion that Tielemans solve our problems!!

  He was in the poor run of games since December, also ineffective in our last game and had he started tonight he would have been pressed out of the game due to Brightons’ setup.

  The game became stretched in the second half and having appeared late in the half tired legs and minds had come into play.

  Mendy seems to be carrying the heat for this, I have watched him and it is clear he is a player who can and want to push forward but he has been asked to hold his position and it looks like he is playing contrary to his instincts.

  You are right, Rodgers needs to get a grip. It is not a lack of funds or lack of depth in the squad, that is holding us back,he needs to find another way to play and be competitive. @henrik_62 had reservation about Rodgers ability to switch ideology, he can’t do it, Scotland seems to have been a refuge for his managerial skills it seems more and more obvious that he is struggling.

[Mike Oxlong]

Brendan dropped a bollock with the team selection tonight and he’ll drop his other one if he doesn’t start to motivate this squad soon 

[Chrysalis]

To the OP the problem with what you said is Tielemans has started the majority of our games, in most of the games he has played he has been really poor, so you thinking the fix is to play him, makes no sense.  You talk as if he has been dropped since the new year or something.

 

I think the actual problem is the mentality been given to the players.

 

Rodgers style seems to be to make his players feel good about themselves that they are better and so forth the problem with this is it can lead to not giving the other team respect and an expectation they can win games without much effort, it honestly feels like when we play the other team wants it more.

 

When the camera points to Rodgers I either see him motionless or clapping the players, never any bollocking's or instructions given.  This type of management obviously served us well earlier, but once the wheels fall off it seems a problem.

Edited 23 June 2020 by Chrysalis

[coolhandfox]

We have punch above are weight this season, a failure to strengthen our wide options in January have left us in a bit of a pickle.

 

I still think we will have enough come the end of the season. 

 

No team is going to find this easy to string a run of wins together, only Man City have the squad to cope with this dramatic end to the season.

 

Is Man U and Wolves When 5 of the last 7 and pip us, fair play! 

 

We will pick up points, I'd guess at 8 which will probably be just enough! 

[Dan LCFC]

It's quite obviously been a good season and any criticism kind of feels like a victim of our success kind of thing, but in truth we've been on a quite obvious downwards trajectory all year and we seem to do this under every single manager after an initial burst - we're the streakiest bloody side in this league and have been ever since the day we entered it. I can kind of forgive the fans' extreme reactions when we consistently deliver the extremes on the pitch.

 

We're just a really bland side to watch and we have been for a while. I can't really put my finger on what it is other than maybe a lot of the players just aren't actually that good. One run (admittedly excellent run) has propped us up this season. Early doors we kept playing pretty averagely but getting the results, from Southampton and the next 5/6 games onwards we were phenomenal, but ever since Norwich at home we've been pretty abject in what has struck me as a collectively dire Premier League where half of the 'big six' are managed by managers nowhere near the calibre they're capable of truly attracting.

 

To blow a top four finish from here I feel would have some real repercussions. The final league position often isn't quite as black and white as you think. We'd have all taken 6th in the summer. 6th however when you're 2nd in January? Absolutely unacceptable under any circumstances.

 

I see parallels between this and 2012/13 where we collapsed then too. The difference that time around was we didn't have players or a manager being touted for moves away, they had to really prove themselves again and fight back - most of this lot could probably get a move to a bigger club this summer, will they have that same desire to bounce back from this if we do bottle it? I'm unsure.

 

It was always quite likely to come tumbling down. I can't remember any side that were so reliant on goals from one player sustaining it for that long. Our failure to address our lack of productivity from our wider players will be the main reason we blow this, should it happen - and the majority of us knew it.

 

I want to eat all of these words but this really does just absolutely reek of Manchester United pipping us on the final day.

[LestaAl]

No doubt it’s been said....when lockdown restriction are lifted on the 4th we may be allowed to actually win a game!

[Nick]

We need 10 points from somewhere as I can't see Man U and maybe Wolves not winning at least 5 of their remaining games.

[Col city fan]

Can anyone explain why, when trying to consolidate a Champions League spot, at home to a bang average Brighton side, we’d start with both Ndidi and Mendy in the central midfield?

We know we are best when pressing teams, with quick passing along the ground and high intensity? 

I can’t fathom it? Vardy wasn’t given much of a sniff, they just about cut out everything we were trying to do offensively and we looked so dull!

Where’s the adventure?

[Pliskin]

11 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

We need 10 points from somewhere as I can't see Man U and maybe Wolves not winning at least 5 of their remaining games.

It will be the Spurs and United games that will ultimately see us fall out of the top four. I can’t see us beating Everton or Palace two sides with capable players, and the way we are playing it will pretty straight forward wins for both. Arsenal will get a break at some point, Sheff United and Bournemouth potentially we could get full points off, and Spurs and United absolutely no chance of anything from either game. I think we will pick up probably max of 5 points from our remaining games, taking points off Arsenal Sheff and Bournemouth. The rest I’m not confident we have enough in us to beat at the moment. 
 

We’ve squandered a golden opportunity to solidify our place in the top four, of day we now have to really on United and Wolves slipping up. Even two 1-0 wins would have done the job. If we do somehow manage to finish in the top four it will be down to the wire. 

[Sunbury Fox]

36 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

We need 10 points from somewhere as I can't see Man U and maybe Wolves not winning at least 5 of their remaining games.

Can't see us getting 10, looking at our remaining opponents:

 

Everton away - we were hardly convincing in beating them earlier in the season despite the fact we were on the crest of the wave at the time and they were at their lowest ebb. They've improved a lot since and we've regressed massively.

 

Palace will come and park 2 buses whilst scoring with every shot, like they always do against us.

 

We've not won at Arsenal since 1972, losing something like 17 of 18 matches.

 

We've not won at Bournemouth since they were promoted.

 

Sheffield United at home - do you really see us scoring against a well drilled 5 man defence in our current form?

 

Tottenham away - they have got their forwards back from injury and could well still be in the hunt for CL so hugely motivated to beat us.

 

We've beaten Man U once in 11 games since we got promoted.

 

I realise I've taken a negative view of each game but this does show that failure to win what on paper were our 2 easiest remaining fixtures has left us with a lot to do.

[Haywood_6]

I think we're lucky Wolves season was curtailed by the Europa League early on, else they'd be in our place now. This season is quickly heading down the pan.

[sacreblueits442]

9 hours ago, Fktf said:

With all the arguments about home and away advantage and the integrity of the competition, the biggest thing that was overlooked was how teams would respond to what is essentially having an off season followed by an immediate return to competitive football. 

 

If you had to implement a 3 month break before a return straight to competitive action, you'd want to be a team that holds the ball and passes people to death. You'd also want the sort of quality man city have in the squad depth, especially given the 5 sub rule. 

..Man. City prior to the suspension were not struggling to overcome teams!!!

 This has nothing to do with the absence of crowds, fitness or the depth of our squad!!!

  We have seen this all before, cast your minds back to last season at this time. We could not buy a win as a place in Europe went begging seemingly due to a lack of effort.We couldn't dig ourselves out of the malaise then and not likely to do so again this year.

  This Forum went into meltdown when we played Mendy with Ndidi previously and the decision to play Maddison out wide is a decision which I thought would never be entertained again...ever, yet Rodgers  felt it was a valid option?

  I know moving the ball quicker and being brave with our passing is the way forward and that is mostly true but our bigger problem is if a team comes to block where do our forwards or midfield find the spaces to exploit.

 One answer would be to take Vardy out of the equation, he is the reason for the Low block, nullifying the space between defence and Goalkeeper.

  By playing Nacho and Perez as a two negates the opposition's need for the block and allows us the space to get behind with slick passing.

 We take control of the game, gain a two goal lead and the opposition will have to take a more positive game plan to get back into the game, Vardy then comes into his own.

 The big teams are not going to sit and block us, this is when Vardy starts, the space will be there to exploit.

  Teams will then have to revise their approach to playing us and eventually eliminating a deep block as we have different options.

Edited 24 June 2020 by sacreblueits442

[The_77]

I get Brendan’s thinking. Even with Mendy and Ndidi out there, we should have been good enough to beat Brighton. But we weren’t. 
 

I think he made a bad mistake in wedging Mendy into a 4-4-2. That formation forced Maddison out wide, where he’s least effective, to the point where he simply abandoned that post and we were left with Chilwell covering the whole left side by himself. 
 

Justin is still learning and he and Gray don’t have the chemistry needed at this level, plus we can never count on one of our wide players to have two good games in a row.

 

I did think Mendy was a glaring problem yesterday, though. He barely made any forward passes, wasn’t very convincing in the tackle, was often on top of his teammates, and had one awful giveaway in the middle of the pitch which led to a good chance for Brighton (which they bungled, which led to a chance that we bungled, and that was pretty much the whole game right there).
 

If one of the two midfielder players is not going to excel in any physical play, tackling, or ball carrying, then he has to have passing range, and I haven’t seen a whole lot of that from Mendy. 
 

And if a manager has five subs at his disposal while we’re creating nothing during one of the dullest and ugliest games of the season, he should start using them before the 69th minute. 

[daddylonglegs]

9 hours ago, chapero82 said:

Wolves are the ones I worry about the most tbh I can see them winning all their games 

For me I'm not worried about other teams. If we keep playing like we do, we'll be caught by 7th, let alone 5th. 

 

To the people saying 'it can only get better' - Schmeichel can't keep playing this well. We've allowed 2 of the worst 5 teams in the league a number of chances over 2 games, and I can't think of a genuine goal scoring opportunity that we've had in that time. 

 

Our next league game is essentially coming up against a slightly Watford - organised 4-4-2 but with quality all over the pitch. I think we'd do very well to get a point.

[Matt]

My biggest question is how long are we going to persist with this turgid, slow, laborious style, it didn’t work with the last bloke, it’s not working with Rodgers, we’re not good enough but even if we were I’d still be claiming it as slow and laborious as that is exactly what it is.

 

The concern is I think this is the way football is going, there seems an unwritten rule this is the way you have to play the game now a days. Hopefully it’s just a phase and when Guardiola ****s off the obsession will **** off and teams will snap out of it.

 

I’m not for one moment calling for long ball, lump it up the field but I wanna see a face paced game, not slow, laborious build up, side to side, backwards passing.

 

We’re so boring, so predictable and not even that good at keeping the ball, we get closed down far too easily, which for a team in ‘transition’ (and what was a long drawn out transition with very little improvement over that long time) to becoming a ‘possession based team’ is a fundamental part of the style and game.