Brendan Rodgers

[Analysethis]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

 

As i've said many a time, it's about performances (Lack of) and negative, boring sideways and backwards football. I had these problems under Puel and little has changed with Rodgers (Ok, harsh - we're ever so slightly more positive under Rodgers).

 

You do realise we're above Arsenal, Spurs, and Man Utd (Albeit soon to overtake us because of a turn around and upturn in form) because the league is poor overall don't you? There is no way I expect to be where we are and there is no way in any other season we would be where we are or deserve to be - I think that's being honest, far from being entitled.

 

Regardless of all of this are you've literally swept Nov/Dec to Marchs form under the carpet.

Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus, Man City. All clubs who have had indifferent form at parts of this season.

 

Our form wasnt great during the dates you have listed but you need to judge the season as a whole and not in quarters,

 

I`d say the same to you I said to a mate earlier today, would you have taken 5th in the league, Europe and the squad kicking on (Ndidi improving his passing, Caglar becoming one of the best defenders in the league, Vards maintaining his goal scoring form, Barnes improving etc ) as well as seeing many of our players becoming even more valuable assets along the way, something fundamental on clubs our size as we will always need to sell and bring on new players (similarly to someone like Dortmund) at the start of the season.

 

If the honest answer is yes, then people need to be logical as to how things have gone and stop this hysteria and anger on us potentially missing out on Champions League.

 

BTW, it aint over yet.

[Cecchini1976]

2 minutes ago, Milo said:

Um, nope.

 

Combination of both.

 

Feel free to re-read earlier posts.

So are you saying tactics and errors? Or are you saying lose of form and errors? As loss of form generally leads to errors? 

[Sly]

I’ve had a long think about this and when you look at the current squad. We’ve got some players in the squad that don’t fit the Rodgers philosophy, so they would need to be moved on. 
 

If you look at it, that’s a lot of work in reality.

 

Slimani - 12 months left. Lose him on a free transfer if we have to and save the £4m in wages. 

 

Amartey - 12 months left. Sell him for £4,000,000 max and save the wages.

 

Mendy - Contract expired after Man U. Don’t renew.

 

Preat - Not good enough. No idea what people see in him. Move him on and try and recoup some of the £18,000,000 we paid for him.

 

Silva - 12 months left. I’d be tempted to keep him in all honesty as backup. No value in selling and as useful as Mendy / Praet. 
 

James - 24 months contract left - what we’re we thinking. Needs selling and saving the wages if possible.

 

Albrighton - 24 months left. Solid back up but shouldn’t be starting at this stage. If we can find a buyer, we should move him on.

 

Kaputska - 12 months left. Wasted himself with us and just needs to move on to save his own career.

 

Gray - Only 12 months left and has all the ability of Ronaldo but no real end product. You know he has it in his locker but doesn’t perform when required. He needs to move for himself. He’s not a viable option if we want to push top half.

 

Diabate - 24 months left. Not sure what Puel saw here but isn’t of the required ability. Needs shipping out. 
 

Iheanacho - Bit part player and not good enough to dislodge an ageing Vardy. If Newcastle want him, Sell him.
 

Bennett - God knows if he’s ours now. However he’s not good enough long term, so needs to go.

 

I make that 12 players that I’d ship out. That isn’t feasible, whilst bringing in better quality, viable replacements. Lots of work to do.

 

Amongst that though, you look at the ability we have in Maddison, Chilwell, Ricardo, Barnes, Thomas, Söyüncü, N’Didi, Justin and Choudhury. These lads need some better quality, experienced players around them. Evans, Vardy, Fuchs, Morgan and Schmeichel. We really need some game management in the middle of the park, similar to when we had Cambiasso for a season. Who that is though, I’m not sure. 

 

I’d say the jury is still out on Perez as well ....

 

I suppose when you look at it, whoever manages us, we’ve got partway to an identity. As frustrated as I am with some of Brendan’s shortcomings, I’d suggest we persist and hope the recruitment galvanises us for the Europe League and we don’t go all Peter Taylor and skirt with relegation. 

 

I’m not a fully qualified coach and don’t have all my badges, however I can see that tactically, we were going to struggle today. It was simply a tactical mismatch. Maybe the recruitment we need, is actually someone with the tactical Insights department. 

[Webbo]

At the end of the day, the buck always stops with the manager. I totally understand why people are unhappy, it's very possible that the poor form will continue into next season, especially with the shortened pre season and extra European games. I have to say though, if the second highest finish in most of our lifetimes isn't good enough then the next manager isn't going to last very long either.

[kingfox]

Just now, Analysethis said:

I rest my case your honour!! 

 

Because you have stated its not because of lockdown, it must be the truth LOL!! Also LOL at "getting spanked by Man City and Liverpool" comment. It sounds like you have convinced yourself we should be mixing it with teams like this?!!! Incredible stuff.

 

Have you not seen Evans, Ndidi and Vardy in recent games? I have seen more errors from Ndidi and Evans since lockdown that I have since they joined. Vardy cant do the running he normally does either. We cant do any tactical work as we are playing every three days.

 

Youc an judge the season over 5, 10 or 20 games, I prefer to look at where we are when the season finishes. I would have taken 5th all day at the start of the season, especially when you told me that we would be finishing above Spurs, Arsenal and Wolves along the way.

 

 

 

First point, using LOL on a forum, how old are you? Ten?

 

And let me remind you, we beat Man City last season, we took a point at Anfield last season. Do I expect to beat these teams regularly? Of course not, but I bloody hope for better, especially as we were 2nd at the time, we were brushed aside far too easily, our home performance against Liverpool was an embarrassment.

 

Did you see Vardy before lockdown? Ndidi has been hit and miss, but there’s been far worse performers than him recently.

 

And yet again another excuse... “We can’t do any tactical work as we’re playing every three days”   Arteta clearly did tactical work after Arsenal’s defeat against Brighton, so much so that he changed formation and results have picked up. Burnley have been in consistent form, Dyche is surely doing something right tactically. I could list other teams too. 
 

I would have taken 5th at the start of the season, I wouldn’t take 5th now after being 2nd in the league and bottling a 14 point gap 

 

The delusional from yourself is an entertaining read though, please carry on.

[Beechey]

19 minutes ago, Matt said:

 

As i've said many a time, it's about performances (Lack of) and negative, boring sideways and backwards football. I had these problems under Puel and little has changed with Rodgers (Ok, harsh - we're ever so slightly more positive under Rodgers).

 

You do realise we're above Arsenal, Spurs, and Man Utd (Albeit soon to overtake us because of a turn around and upturn in form) because the league is poor overall don't you?

 

There is no way I expect to be where we are and there is no way in any other season we would be where we are or deserve to be - I think that's being honest, far from being entitled.

 

09/10 - You needed 70 points for 4th/67 point for 5th.

10/11 - You needed 68 for 4th/62 for 5th.

11/12 - You needed 69 for 4th/65 for 5th.

12/13 - You needed 73 for 4th/72 for 5th.

13/14 - You needed 79 for 4th/72 for 5th.

14/15 - You needed 70 for 4th/64 for 5th

15/16 - You needed 66 for 4th/66 for 5th.

16/17 - You needed 76 for 4th/75 for 5th.

17/18 - You needed 75 for 4th/70 for 5th.

18/19 - You needed 71 for 4th/70 for 5th.

This season - You're going to need 65 for 4th/62 for 4th. The lowest points total in the last 10 years. Take nothing away from the points we've acheived but it's pointing towards the quality being lower, likewise you won't need the traditional '40 points' to stay up. As I say in any other season we would not nor deserve to be (Or 'expect) to be where we are, this is all aside from my real bugbear, that is to do with style of play.

 

Regardless of all of this are you've literally swept Nov/Dec to Marchs form under the carpet.

 

I get it's nitpicky and minor, but we won all of our league games in November, and didn't draw until mid-December. Really the form fell of a cliff December/January, not November/December.

Edited 19 July 2020 by Beechey

[Hoopla10]

6 minutes ago, kingfox said:

 

Regardless if we’re 4th, these problems have mounted since Christmas, Rodgers has made many mistakes that we shouldn’t just brush under the carpet.

 

Get your head out his arse and look at the bigger picture, why have we fvcked up so bad? And it’s most definitely not because of lockdown.

All managers make mistakes unless you're over burdened with talented players that they can cover for you. Talk about bigger picture. So talk about it. A young team start the season on fire, what's the odds they'll eventually hit a wall? Vardy comes out firing, what's the odds he'll hit a dry spot? When did Ndidi get injured, does that have any impact? Is it Br's fault that a lot of our team don't chip in goals (Evans and Cags: 2 goals between them ALL season). To be in the top four you need another player to score in double digits, we simply don't have that. We need depth in squad to cover when key members get injured/red carded, we don't have that. I'm sure given a blank cheque BR would have done something about much of that, but he doesn't have that. People want BR to defend against ManU, fine, but what happens when Pogba, Bruno, Rashford, McTominay, Greenwood, Martial get to unlock our defense? Are people going to say, well at least we tried? Nah, they'll, moan we needed to win, we should have had a go at them. They'll say it's madness to sit back and try and defend with our current defense.  

[kingfox]

12 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

Hey Kingfox, as you say "Regardless if we're 4th".

 

Are you for real.........so what exactly do you want????

 

Win the Premier League every year, or in your world, its a complete failure?

 

I want us not to bottle a healthy 14 point lead 

 

Champions League football was firmly in our hands, we’ve potentially let it slip.

 

Is that a good thing? Is that a positive thing?

 

Of course not.

[Sly]

I hope he learns from today and amends the system for the Manchester United game. 
 

 

[Ian Nacho]

47 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

If any thinks we are going to sack him after spending 9 million on getting out of Celtic and and if reports are correct his on 10 million a year with 4 years to run on his contract. 

 

So you are looking at 49 million down the drain if you sack him.

More than likely there will be a clause in his contract so we don't have to pay the full amount of his contract if he get's sacked. But your point still stands, it would cost the club a lot.

[Milo]

1 minute ago, Cecchini1976 said:

So are you saying tactics and errors? Or are you saying lose of form and errors? As loss of form generally leads to errors? 

I'm saying what I've always said - Brendan took the plaudits when we went on a long largely winning streak (and rightly so, imo), and he should take some criticism when we are on a long largely losing streak (and rightly so, imo)

 

You said that the long poor streak is solely down to individual errors - inferring that it was nothing to do with tactics and/or man management. 

 

   

[surrifox]

I think anyone on this forum would have taken 5th or 6th place at the start of the season- we were sensational at times up to December . My main gripe is that we never seem to delight with unexpected results . We never really laid a glove on Liverpool and Man City in the league and capitulated in both cups one of which was absolutely ours to lose ( a final place)- I couldn’t believe we scored 9 at Southampton but wasn’t surprised we beat Them or indeed any of the sides we turned over. I cannot recall a single league match where I would have said “ I am amazed we beat them “ or a game where we were a couple of goals down but went on to win the game .

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, surrifox said:

I think anyone on this forum would have taken 5th or 6th place at the start of the season- we were sensational at times up to December . My main gripe is that we never seem to delight with unexpected results . We never really laid a glove on Liverpool and Man City in the league and capitulated in both cups one of which was absolutely ours to lose ( a final place)- I couldn’t believe we scored 9 at Southampton but wasn’t surprised we beat Them or indeed any of the sides we turned over. I cannot recall a single league match where I would have said “ I am amazed we beat them “ or a game where we were a couple of goals down but went on to win the game .

Tbh I wasn't expecting to beat Sheff Utd last week.

[Analysethis]

5 minutes ago, kingfox said:

 

First point, using LOL on a forum, how old are you? Ten?

 

And let me remind you, we beat Man City last season, we took a point at Anfield last season. Do I expect to beat these teams regularly? Of course not, but I bloody hope for better, especially as we were 2nd at the time, we were brushed aside far too easily, our home performance against Liverpool was an embarrassment.

 

Did you see Vardy before lockdown? Ndidi has been hit and miss, but there’s been far worse performers than him recently.

 

And yet again another excuse... “We can’t do any tactical work as we’re playing every three days”   Arteta clearly did tactical work after Arsenal’s defeat against Brighton, so much so that he changed formation and results have picked up. Burnley have been in consistent form, Dyche is surely doing something right tactically. I could list other teams too. 
 

I would have taken 5th at the start of the season, I wouldn’t take 5th now after being 2nd in the league and bottling a 14 point gap 

 

The delusional from yourself is an entertaining read though, please carry on.

Im 48 Pal, so LOL along mate its 2020!!

 

Im personally embarrassed that we have this type of fan base really. Im not surprised, as there will always be a percentage or two of idiots talking about our club like we are only as good as our last performance. Im guessing you are one of those who scream abuse at your own players when they give the ball away and try your best not to encourage? Im also guessing you have a Liverpool shirt on order because you like the kit design LOL?!!

 

Having lived through the likes of David Pleats teams and some of the dross that followed, I still got in the car with my mates and went around the country to support the team. When MON bought us trophies, it didnt change my love for the club but made me smile a tad more. Its the same when we won the league for me. It just put a bigger smile on my face. This season I have seen us play better football, we are attracting better players and better managers than my living memory. For the first time, we now have a load of players that would walk into many of the top 6 mega rich clubs.

 

I`ll judge them as my club on the joy they have given me as a supporter over the years and not the knee-jerk community like yourself who is attacking their own because we may finish as "low" as 5th in the league.

[Cecchini1976]

5 minutes ago, Milo said:

I'm saying what I've always said - Brendan took the plaudits when we went on a long largely winning streak (and rightly so, imo), and he should take some criticism when we are on a long largely losing streak (and rightly so, imo)

 

You said that the long poor streak is solely down to individual errors - inferring that it was nothing to do with tactics and/or man management. 

 

   

Yep that is what I said and that’s my opinion and I am aloud my opinion. It’s a young squad and they switch off at times or make the wrong decision. I will be gutted if we finish 5th based on how far clear we were, but at the same time it would have exceeded my expectations for the season. As I knew we would be inconsistent. 

[kingfox]

10 minutes ago, Hoopla10 said:

All managers make mistakes unless you're over burdened with talented players that they can cover for you. Talk about bigger picture. So talk about it. A young team start the season on fire, what's the odds they'll eventually hit a wall? Vardy comes out firing, what's the odds he'll hit a dry spot? When did Ndidi get injured, does that have any impact? Is it Br's fault that a lot of our team don't chip in goals (Evans and Cags: 2 goals between them ALL season). To be in the top four you need another player to score in double digits, we simply don't have that. We need depth in squad to cover when key members get injured/red carded, we don't have that. I'm sure given a blank cheque BR would have done something about much of that, but he doesn't have that. People want BR to defend against ManU, fine, but what happens when Pogba, Bruno, Rashford, McTominay, Greenwood, Martial get to unlock our defense? Are people going to say, well at least we tried? Nah, they'll, moan we needed to win, we should have had a go at them. They'll say it's madness to sit back and try and defend with our current defense.  

Did you expect them to hit a massive wall like this though? Of course you didn’t.

 

Saying Vardy hit a dry spot is a bit kind, it was worse than that and the most worrying thing from it all, was the fact he was looking like the player we saw under Puel, isolated. 
 

Are you happy just to brush a 14 point gap under the carpet? There’s no positives to come out of the last 5-6 months.

 

Brendan has made crucial mistakes, that have played their part in blowing a 14 point lead.

 

Are you just going to brush his mistakes under the carpet like others have, just because we’ve secured European Football?

[Foxaholic ME]

30 minutes ago, ttfn said:

Well firstly thank you for engaging in such a thoughtful and respectful response.

 

Secondly, the facts speak for themselves. We are not better than we were under Puel and haven’t been for half a season now. We were (much) better for the first half of the season and Rodgers rightly gained plaudits - plaudits he would have deserved had we taken even 10 fewer points in the first 16 games.

 

For a spell we were better under Rodgers than under almost any manager we’ve had in the last 50 years. But right now - and for half a season (the idea that this is a post-lockdown thing is so preposterous I don’t even know where to start) - we’re as bad as we were under a manager almost nobody liked despite having a better squad and a lot more goodwill. This is self-evident whatever the reasons.

 

 

 

I agree we were  excellent  under Taylor for half a  xseason  and then imploded  admittedly somewhat worse but got relegated because we  kept him on  Harsh though it is most supporters are disappointed  as we havent won one big game  and have been beaten by all sides in the bottom 3  The premier apart from Liverpool and often Man c  is very weak . and finishing a likely 5th  is equivalent to about  12th in most seasons

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, kingfox said:

Did you expect them to hit a massive wall like this though? Of course you didn’t.

 

Saying Vardy hit a dry spot is a bit kind, it was worse than that and the most worrying thing from it all, was the fact he was looking like the player we saw under Puel, isolated. 
 

Are you happy just to brush a 14 point gap under the carpet? There’s no positives to come out of the last 5-6 months.

 

Brendan has made crucial mistakes, that have played their part in blowing a 14 point lead.

 

Are you just going to brush his mistakes under the carpet like others have, just because we’ve secured European Football?

It's thanks to Rodgers  that we had that 14 point lead.

[Gazza M]

I have no problem with what Brendan did today. He set up with the formation and team we all shouted for before KO. 

What we were desperately lacking was quality. You can only go so far with what we have. To lose Maddison, Soyuncu, Ricardo and Chilwell has been massive. We also lost Ndidi for a while before lock down and that had a massive effect at that time.

I know the January window is such a hard window, but the club is guilty in recent times of not strengthening at this time to inject that spark back. We were crying out for it and for me that is the biggest factor we have slumped. 

So we will be in Europe next season. What I want to see is quality mixed with shrewd signings so we can build a squad that can compete mid week to weekend as the fixtures will come thick and fast. 

Brendan has over achieved this season no doubt. We need to remember that and be happy with that in my opinion. 

However the direction he chooses to take the squad next and how well he strengthens will make or break his time here. The clock resets in September and we need to shake off any potential hangover. 

[Sly]

2 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

I have no problem with what Brendan did today. He set up with the formation and team we all shouted for before KO. 

What we were desperately lacking was quality. You can only go so far with what we have. To lose Maddison, Soyuncu, Ricardo and Chilwell has been massive. We also lost Ndidi for a while before lock down and that had a massive effect at that time.

I know the January window is such a hard window, but the club is guilty in recent times of not strengthening at this time to inject that spark back. We were crying out for it and for me that is the biggest factor we have slumped. 

So we will be in Europe next season. What I want to see is quality mixed with shrewd signings so we can build a squad that can compete mid week to weekend as the fixtures will come thick and fast. 

Brendan has over achieved this season no doubt. We need to remember that and be happy with that in my opinion. 

However the direction he chooses to take the squad next and how well he strengthens will make or break his time here. The clock resets in September and we need to shake off any potential hangover. 

If we ever wanted to play two DMs ..... it would have been today. 

[Mike Oxlong]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

It's thanks to Rodgers  that we had that 14 point lead.

True but imagine how you would feel if you had this to look forward to

 

 

but at the very last minute you ended up with this 

 

 

 

[volpeazzurro]

15 minutes ago, kingfox said:

 

First point, using LOL on a forum, how old are you? Ten?

 

And let me remind you, we beat Man City last season, we took a point at Anfield last season. Do I expect to beat these teams regularly? Of course not, but I bloody hope for better, especially as we were 2nd at the time, we were brushed aside far too easily, our home performance against Liverpool was an embarrassment.

 

Did you see Vardy before lockdown? Ndidi has been hit and miss, but there’s been far worse performers than him recently.

 

And yet again another excuse... “We can’t do any tactical work as we’re playing every three days”   Arteta clearly did tactical work after Arsenal’s defeat against Brighton, so much so that he changed formation and results have picked up. Burnley have been in consistent form, Dyche is surely doing something right tactically. I could list other teams too. 
 

I would have taken 5th at the start of the season, I wouldn’t take 5th now after being 2nd in the league and bottling a 14 point gap 

 

The delusional from yourself is an entertaining read though, please carry on.

I agree with everything in that. Tactics, or lack of them, against Man City and Liverpool were pitiful. Re 5th place, there's a big difference for me in improving your team as you progress and grow throughout the season and achieving 5th place, than getting worse and worse as you go along and ending it spiralling into relegation form for halfa season. Without Vardy's goals had he got injured, where precisely do we think we'd be now? Most teams in the Premiership don't have a Vardy. Forget Europe, what confidence does this finish give to the squad and supporters alike for next year? The demise of this talented young squad has been such that you can't just keep blaming players or injuries. You rightly point to teams like Burnley. What about Southampton,  a team we absolutely whooped 9 nil yet not only did they beat us upon their return, their manager rebuilt their confidence and they finished very strongly. Which set of fans there are more confident regarding next season? Which manager would you want to invest millions of pounds to back up their 'philosophy'?

[Gamble92]

Agreed that our fans overreact but it's such a small team mentality to be okay with blowing this kind of lead.

 

The most worrying thing is Rodgers is more than happy to keep reminding everyone we should just be happy to be top 6, and all the pundits are happy to go along with it. Martin Tyler and Gary Neville saying it's still been a great season was just patronising as anything.

 

Form has a habit of carrying over too.

[Vacamion]

2 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

True but imagine how you would feel if you had this to look forward to

 

 

but at the very last minute you ended up with this 

 

 

 

 

 

But we are still fairly happy because we spent most of the 20 years beforehand with this

 

 

[HybridFox]

4 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

True but imagine how you would feel if you had this to look forward to

 

 

but at the very last minute you ended up with this 

 

 

 

Thought that was implying Brendan Rodgers' missus for a second