Injuries at the club.

[Tom12345]

10 hours ago, Dames said:

You don't throw a 35 year old whos barely kicked a ball in 2 months straight into an intense game against a team fighting for their lives, against Burnley for 20 minute it was fine because their players were tiring so it was bound to be less intense. 

 

The 'impact' injury has occurred because he's not performed at this level for over 2 months so when his knees were trying to absorb the shock of the impact they just couldn't because his body was at its limit as it wasn't used to the intense exercise. Yes it can happen when fully fit but its more likely to happen to a 35 year old who hasn't played much in the way of games for 2 months. He needs to be managed better and yet again, he wasn't. 

 

I think it must be more than that. Vardy would have been training before the game. How much training did he do? Did Rodgers encourage them to show him that they are “ready” in training before he puts them into the game, and hence directly or indirectly forced Vardy (or for that matters all our players) to train too intensely when they shouldn’t have? So it may not just be the 20 mins against Burnley or the 60 mins against Leeds. It may be the days in training beforehand. (And the medical team were just “yes” man.)

 

Part of this may also be the “modern” game Rodgers demand. Press from the top the whole game. Surely they do a bit of training on this in training as well. So that intensity they display in matches is only a part of the intense pressure they put their muscles and ligaments under - the other part we don’t see is what they do in training.

Edited 10 March 2022 by Tom12345

[inckley fox]

It keeps happening, doesn't it? Unless you totally discount the notion that some management and medical teams handle fitness issues better than others, then you have no choice to wonder what ours are doing wrong. It's not as if this is a concern which has leapt out of the blue this season.

[LcFc_Smiv]

If his latest injury is a contact injury it doesn't sound like there's too much you can do.

 

There's comments in here pointing the finger at both sides, management and sport sci and medicine. The truth us unless you have inside access and information to how everything is run day to day then we won't know who is to blame. 

 

It is sport science staffs role to monitor training and match loads and advise management and coaching staff on how to incorporate physical aspects into training amongst other responsibilities. It is the physios roles to help rehabilitate injured players. Strength and conditioning coaches will work with both areas to help implement the onfield and off field physical components, assist in end stage rehab. It's a team effort and usually responsibilities are shared.

 

All advice and information will be shared with the manager and coaching staff daily. This will include which players need a bit less/more, who's carrying a knock, how long training should be, how long each drill should be, what dimensions, what intensity etc etc. This is only advice, at the end of the day the managers decision is final. In some clubs this works really well, everyones opinion is valued at the same level and everyone is held as accountable as the next person regardless of whether your manager, asst manager, physio, sport sci, analyst etc.

 

In other situations, managers, coaching staff can take the advice and leave it, or push the boundaries. Some because it's how they are as coaches, some because it's a results based business and they need certain players on the pitch for the best chance of achieving the club's goals. I've worked with coaching staff at u23s who I have advised to leave a player out of training in a staff meeting because of his training load to be told if said coach was a first team manager and his job was on the line, then that player would be needed every session and every game so he needs to get used to being pushed to the limits.

 

It literally is situation to situation and the point I'm making is we have no idea what factors are contributing to these injuries. I will say if it's bad luck, it's up there with some of the worst I have ever seen.

 

*Disclaimer* Roles and responsibilities may vary on a club to club basis 

Edited 10 March 2022 by LcFc_Smiv

[deep blue]

9 hours ago, Jobyfox said:

So you're better able to resist the impacts of an injury if you're match fit, but the only way to get match fit is to play and build up your resilience?

 

Hmmmm ..... 

 

 

 

You build up a player's match fitness gradually.

[Jobyfox]

2 hours ago, deep blue said:

You build up a player's match fitness gradually.

Oh yes you’re right.

 

Like 18 minutes against Burnley then 60 minutes against Leeds for example? 

[Blue-fox]

2 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

Oh yes you’re right.

 

Like 18 minutes against Burnley then 60 minutes against Leeds for example? 

Personally at his age, I would have done 20 v Burnley, 20 v Leeds and then 60 at Rennes but that’s just me

[Jobyfox]

1 minute ago, Blue-fox said:

Personally at his age, I would have done 20 v Burnley, 20 v Leeds and then 60 at Rennes but that’s just me

And you can put your mortgage on the fact that if that had been his schedule and he got an impact injury against Rennes, there would be the usual suspects saying that: “Rodgers has rushed him back” and he should have only played 55 minutes in the ECL 

[Blue-fox]

Just now, Jobyfox said:

And you can put your mortgage on the fact that if that had been his schedule and he got an impact injury against Rennes, there would be the usual suspects saying that: “Rodgers has rushed him back” and he should have only played 55 minutes in the ECL 

I mean this injury can no way be put on Rodgers but I just think in general, injury management needs to be better

[Tom12345]

6 hours ago, LcFc_Smiv said:

If his latest injury is a contact injury it doesn't sound like there's too much you can do.

 

There's comments in here pointing the finger at both sides, management and sport sci and medicine. The truth us unless you have inside access and information to how everything is run day to day then we won't know who is to blame. 

 

It is sport science staffs role to monitor training and match loads and advise management and coaching staff on how to incorporate physical aspects into training amongst other responsibilities. It is the physios roles to help rehabilitate injured players. Strength and conditioning coaches will work with both areas to help implement the onfield and off field physical components, assist in end stage rehab. It's a team effort and usually responsibilities are shared.

 

All advice and information will be shared with the manager and coaching staff daily. This will include which players need a bit less/more, who's carrying a knock, how long training should be, how long each drill should be, what dimensions, what intensity etc etc. This is only advice, at the end of the day the managers decision is final. In some clubs this works really well, everyones opinion is valued at the same level and everyone is held as accountable as the next person regardless of whether your manager, asst manager, physio, sport sci, analyst etc.

 

In other situations, managers, coaching staff can take the advice and leave it, or push the boundaries. Some because it's how they are as coaches, some because it's a results based business and they need certain players on the pitch for the best chance of achieving the club's goals. I've worked with coaching staff at u23s who I have advised to leave a player out of training in a staff meeting because of his training load to be told if said coach was a first team manager and his job was on the line, then that player would be needed every session and every game so he needs to get used to being pushed to the limits.

 

It literally is situation to situation and the point I'm making is we have no idea what factors are contributing to these injuries. I will say if it's bad luck, it's up there with some of the worst I have ever seen.

 

*Disclaimer* Roles and responsibilities may vary on a club to club basis 

Not discounting anything you said and it provides good insights, but still in short our injury record for the last two seasons or so is shocking. Whoever is at fault something is wrong. Why spend all this money on training and rehabilitation facilities and have a medical and sports science team when players can’t play on match days half the time? If this is a company, surely no one can say the company has met its objectives and surely someone would need to be sacked.

Edited 10 March 2022 by Tom12345

[BKLFox]

There are 79 players currently listed as being injured in the Premier League, whilst it states Leicester have 6 these include Ricardo & Fofana who are both due back this w/end leaving 4 players, 3 of which are recovering from surgery, leaving Jamie.
There are still 73 other players listed as injured, today, which for those that will hit the averages is near as damn it 4 players per team, the majority of those injuries are listed as thigh injuries the main injury that has hampered us, so either every club has a medical team more fitting to the Dog'n'Duck or hamstring injuries are part n parcel of being an elite sportsman (or woman)
 

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, Jobyfox said:

And you can put your mortgage on the fact that if that had been his schedule and he got an impact injury against Rennes, there would be the usual suspects saying that: “Rodgers has rushed him back” and he should have only played 55 minutes in the ECL 

I sort of know what you're getting at, at some point there's a cut off but it's happening too often. Justin comes back from a year out, he has x 1 U23 appearance for 45 mins, x 1 sub appearance in the PL and then does 3 starts in a week and is out again for 3-4 weeks. It just seems so ominous in hindsight.

 

Likewise Vardy, he was massively mishandled in December. He'd been carry various knocks and then was encouraged to stay on whilst injured in the QF vs Liverpool and it was that bad he couldn't even take a penalty but was OK to try and compete rather than go down to 10 men. Can almost accept that as a one off, but then merely a week later he is back in the starting line up again and again gets injured and due to using our subs is forced/encouraged to stay on and in doing so is then ruled out for 3 months. 3 months later he comes back and is again starting matches for us after 1 sub game a few days before and came off on 60 mins because of injury, not necessarily because that was the plan all along.

 

The more cautious approach given the issues in December and the issues we've seen with Justin and Ricardo from long lay offs would to have maintained the careful reintroduction knowing he's just as, if not more lethal at the end of games for us and maybe he'd not have been quite as prone to being clattered. Either way the handling of him in December was shocking.

[LcFc_Smiv]

6 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

Not discounting anything you said and it provides good insights, but still in short our injury record for the last two seasons or so is shocking. Whoever is at fault something is wrong. Why spend all this money on training and rehabilitation facilities and have a medical and sports science team when players can’t play on match days half the time? If this is a company, surely no one can say the company has met its objectives and surely someone would need to be sacked.

Oh yes its horrific. My point wasn't too say that something isn't wrong, I was just trying to make the point that we have people hammering the sport sci and medical staff, people pointing the finger at the manager but the reality is we as fans won't actually know who is responsible. Only thing that is for sure is it seriously needs addressing. I'm sure I read from another poster that their was some sort of inhouse investigation going on which is a good start, but only if the issues are addressed and learnt from, no point in placing blame and staff being reprimanded if serious change doesn't occur. Training grounds and technology are only as good as the people operating them.

[adejo92]

20 hours ago, Heskey2011 said:

It's obviously not BRs fault, the physios and the player decides if they're fit or not.  

Don't know what you're all getting worked up about anyway, this is classic mind games from BR, there's nowt wrong with Vardy, it's fake news to give Rennes a false sense of security, he'll start or will come on and Rennes will shit it. 

Awkward.

[Spudulike]

I don't think we sustained any new ones tonight? Makes a nice change. 

[Rain King]

4 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I don't think we sustained any new ones tonight? Makes a nice change. 

Dewsbury-Hall was limping a bit before he went off but hopefully just a small knock.

[moore_94]

14 minutes ago, Rain King said:

Dewsbury-Hall was limping a bit before he went off but hopefully just a small knock.

Rennes player stamped on his foot, looked like it hurt quite a bit

 

Of course the ref didn't even see it, and then was more focused on making sure Rennes took their free kick that wasn't a free kick in the correct position whilst KDH was still on the floor

[st albans fox]

Just now, moore_94 said:

Rennes player stamped on his foot, looked like it hurt quite a bit

 

Of course the ref didn't even see it, and then was more focused on making sure Rennes took their free kick that wasn't a free kick in the correct position whilst KDH was still on the floor

He made some bizarre calls - for both sides. As the home side we would have expected more decisions than we got …

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

He made some bizarre calls - for both sides. As the home side we would have expected more decisions than we got …

Half the time I genuinely think he was just guessing

[KrefelderFox666]

7 hours ago, st albans fox said:

He made some bizarre calls - for both sides. As the home side we would have expected more decisions than we got …

I said to my mate, some periods he blew for everything and a phase later he thought feck it and let everything run.

[Fox1norfolk]

On 10/03/2022 at 15:04, BKLFox said:

There are 79 players currently listed as being injured in the Premier League, whilst it states Leicester have 6 these include Ricardo & Fofana who are both due back this w/end leaving 4 players, 3 of which are recovering from surgery, leaving Jamie.
There are still 73 other players listed as injured, today, which for those that will hit the averages is near as damn it 4 players per team, the majority of those injuries are listed as thigh injuries the main injury that has hampered us, so either every club has a medical team more fitting to the Dog'n'Duck or hamstring injuries are part n parcel of being an elite sportsman (or woman)
 

Where is Evans he seems to have disappeared, he has hardly played more than a few games, big toe end of last season, what is it now ? 

[Ric Flair]

Wonder if there's been any others in the last 24-48 hours?

 

Edited to say, this isn't some cryptic post. It's a genuine pondering, I've not heard anything so hopefully we're as expected.

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Wonder if there's been any others in the last 24-48 hours?

 

Edited to say, this isn't some cryptic post. It's a genuine pondering, I've not heard anything so hopefully we're as expected.

There’s no injury problem!

 

And if there is, they’re all impact injuries anyway 

[Chocolate Teapot]

Feasible that Castagne, Vardy and Evans should all be back after the international break.

 

Fofana back this week.

 

12 games left of the season and hopefully several more in the EC.

 

I actually like the call from Rodgers to rest players yesterday and to continue to rotate Justin and Ricardo.

[Harpenden Fox]

3 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Feasible that Castagne, Vardy and Evans should all be back after the international break.

 

Fofana back this week.

 

12 games left of the season and hopefully several more in the EC.

 

I actually like the call from Rodgers to rest players yesterday and to continue to rotate Justin and Ricardo.

Agreed, but I thought he might rest more. Lookman for Barnes for example. C’est la vie. Let’s hope we’re at our absolute best on Thursday. Let’s not leave anything out there as they say

[sacreblueits442]

11 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Feasible that Castagne, Vardy and Evans should all be back after the international break.

 

Fofana back this week.

 

12 games left of the season and hopefully several more in the EC.

 

I actually like the call from Rodgers to rest players yesterday and to continue to rotate Justin and Ricardo.

...not exactly resting players when you are dragging Albrighton and KDH along through games, whilst running on empty!!!