Absolute *** of our time Pt.MXXVI

[Steven]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

I'm judging nobody who writes here, but I often wonder if talking about this stuff here does any of us any good. 

 

Don't get me wrong, the case being discussed is sickening, and I don't doubt your collective sincerity in what you all say. I also defend your right to do so, but I think that sometimes we enjoy the spectacle of such horrors - somewhat like traffic slowing to inspect an accident. 

 

I apologise if this gets backs up, genuinely. The world can be dreadful enough, this thread just happens to reinforce that point at times. 

It does. I get no jollys from listening to Arthur say nobody loves me or reading about the horrific circumstances of his life. Nor did I get get any jollys from posting about this poor girl below. it behoves us all to intervene if we can, to protect those that cannot protect themselves.

 

[HighPeakFox]

10 minutes ago, Steven said:

It does. I get no jollys from listening to Arthur say nobody loves me or reading about the horrific circumstances of his life. Nor did I get get any jollys from posting about this poor girl below. it behoves us all to intervene if we can, to protect those that cannot protect themselves.

 

Don't get me wrong, intervention is crucial. But it saddens me that to intervene is to often put one's self in grave danger. 

 

I really wasn't suggesting you or anyone gets off on it, it was meant to be a broader point about society and it was difficult to word correctly. So please accept my apology for that at the very least. 

[RonnieTodger]

This has really made me feel sick to my stomach, in its pure evilness. 

 

The more you read, the worse it makes you feel. There's no possible punishment befitting of what they've done. 

 

Sadistic psychopaths. 

[don_danbury]

the judge who given him only 17 years should also be locked up

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, Steven said:

I thought Arthur was a Brum fan?

He was but I don't think that really comes into it.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Just read about this and want to forget it instantly. there's nothing you can really say that hasn't been said and no slur or insult strong enough for the 2 of them. Frankly, a big part of me hopes they both die in prison.

[cambridgefox]

4 hours ago, Steven said:

I thought Arthur was a Brum fan?

He was,but lived in Birmingham.Think the whole City has been shocked by it.

[Parafox]

19 hours ago, ajthefox said:

It's strange how even all the people in prison for god knows what (presumably some pretty grim stuff if it's the same one as these two), still have a fairly mutual hatred reserved for those special cvnts that abuse/kill children. 

Guilt deflection and self righteousness. You're not as bad as people think if someone else appears worse (at the time of the offence) than you. Nonces get attacked by others that have committed crimes against children and by doing so it gives them a sense of justice in that they feel they're "punishing" the latest offender to land in their nick. It also diverts attention away from themselves and thereby avoids attacks on them. Someone else will get the shit they got. 

[nnfox]

11 hours ago, Raj said:

4 times social services were alerted to this kids issues. 4 times they visited  and deemed it okay.

Hope those involved sleep well at night.

Why does everything have to become a situation where somebody has to be blamed?  

 

I'm sure the professionals involved will be sick to their stomach.  Maybe they've saved many other lives before this.  Maybe they've worked long, stressful days, making life changing decisions, whilst juggling twice as many cases as they should.  Maybe they're trying their best to make a difference in heart breakingly bad situations, with limited resource and pitiful pay.

 

Of course, there will rightfully be an investigation to see what lessons can be learned, but until there is evidence of negligence by the professionals involved, anything said is likely to be wide of the mark.

 

Let's be honest, there are only two people responsible for this horrific crime, and those two scumbags are exactly where they deserve to be.  Let's not make remarks insinuating that it's anything else and let's actually give some support to those who step up to make a difference in a vital but under resourced essential service.

[TJB-fox]

50 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Why does everything have to become a situation where somebody has to be blamed?  

 

I'm sure the professionals involved will be sick to their stomach.  Maybe they've saved many other lives before this.  Maybe they've worked long, stressful days, making life changing decisions, whilst juggling twice as many cases as they should.  Maybe they're trying their best to make a difference in heart breakingly bad situations, with limited resource and pitiful pay.

 

Of course, there will rightfully be an investigation to see what lessons can be learned, but until there is evidence of negligence by the professionals involved, anything said is likely to be wide of the mark.

 

Let's be honest, there are only two people responsible for this horrific crime, and those two scumbags are exactly where they deserve to be.  Let's not make remarks insinuating that it's anything else and let's actually give some support to those who step up to make a difference in a vital but under resourced essential service.

Agreed re the remarks aren’t particularly helpful but the poor fella has been let down horrendously by all involved. 
 

There is clear negligence and that is utterly unacceptable. 

[Raj]

1 hour ago, nnfox said:

Why does everything have to become a situation where somebody has to be blamed?  

 

I'm sure the professionals involved will be sick to their stomach.  Maybe they've saved many other lives before this.  Maybe they've worked long, stressful days, making life changing decisions, whilst juggling twice as many cases as they should.  Maybe they're trying their best to make a difference in heart breakingly bad situations, with limited resource and pitiful pay.

 

Of course, there will rightfully be an investigation to see what lessons can be learned, but until there is evidence of negligence by the professionals involved, anything said is likely to be wide of the mark.

 

Let's be honest, there are only two people responsible for this horrific crime, and those two scumbags are exactly where they deserve to be.  Let's not make remarks insinuating that it's anything else and let's actually give some support to those who step up to make a difference in a vital but under resourced essential service.

 

19 minutes ago, TJB-fox said:

Agreed re the remarks aren’t particularly helpful but the poor fella has been let down horrendously by all involved. 
 

There is clear negligence and that is utterly unacceptable. 

 

So we should just accept that mistakes are made due to infrastructure issues?

Slippery slope and thats why some agencies will almost get away with any wrongdoings.

 

I feel more the grandmum who highlighted this to the social services on many times and nothing was done.

[TJB-fox]

8 minutes ago, Raj said:

 

 

So we should just accept that mistakes are made due to infrastructure issues?

Slippery slope and thats why some agencies will almost get away with any wrongdoings.

 

I feel more the grandmum who highlighted this to the social services on many times and nothing was done.

Not at all, what’s gone on is utterly unacceptable like I stated above. 
 

Such a sad story, the more you read the worse it gets. Heartbreaking

[Wymsey]

Surprised that they weren't jailed for life, which they certainly should've done.

Too lenient a sentence, personally.

[weller54]

4 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Just read about this and want to forget it instantly. there's nothing you can really say that hasn't been said and no slur or insult strong enough for the 2 of them. Frankly, a big part of me hopes they both die in prison.

... slowly and as painfully as possible please.

[Scotch]

What REALLY annoys me about this story re the wee lad is all the people who have spoken up in court about seeing various things that never came forward earlier. If your in someones house/their in yours for several hours doing your hair and that entire time the wee boy is forced to face a wall to the point where you feel the need to sneak him water, then surely you say something. 

[fatmando]

Cant stop thinking about this poor lad today. They should be hanged. Id kick the stool. 

[urban.spaceman]

On 03/12/2021 at 14:01, Benguin said:

My wife is a health visitor and is under insane levels of stress due to staff shortages. The safeguarding frameworks and staff competence are very high in this country, the issue is staffing which results in cross team working, stringent safeguarding meetings and more time to review and reflect all get severely impacted. 

 

The sector needs to be made more appealing to attract staff. The funding and jobs are there but not the people wanting to do it. 

 

On 03/12/2021 at 15:07, Raj said:

Infrastructure in many sectors is falling to bits.

My Mrs is in education and its the same situation.

Still in this situation there was a definite  failure in procedures.

 

21 hours ago, nnfox said:

Why does everything have to become a situation where somebody has to be blamed?  

 

I'm sure the professionals involved will be sick to their stomach.  Maybe they've saved many other lives before this.  Maybe they've worked long, stressful days, making life changing decisions, whilst juggling twice as many cases as they should.  Maybe they're trying their best to make a difference in heart breakingly bad situations, with limited resource and pitiful pay.

 

Of course, there will rightfully be an investigation to see what lessons can be learned, but until there is evidence of negligence by the professionals involved, anything said is likely to be wide of the mark.

 

Let's be honest, there are only two people responsible for this horrific crime, and those two scumbags are exactly where they deserve to be.  Let's not make remarks insinuating that it's anything else and let's actually give some support to those who step up to make a difference in a vital but under resourced essential service.

Like Raj says, infrastructure in many sectors is falling to bits. It’s not even neglect, it’s the active degradation of the services we rely on, having their capacity, staff and funding slashed to such an extent that it can’t cover what is needed and then cases like this fall through the cracks. 
 

Take mental health services for example. 25% fewer beds available than in 2010. My friends mum works in the sector (generally with rehabilitation) and back in 2015 she told me her team had been cut from 11 to 2, with the same workload. I bumped into her recently and she had just retired early because she hated what it has become so much. 10 years ago they were able to support people for 3 years - these were vulnerable people with extreme mental health issues who may be a danger to themselves and others. That’s been cut year after year due to funding and staff shortages, and now they have two weeks. Two weeks in which to support and rehabilitate vulnerable people. It’s no wonder people fall through the cracks.

 

Jake Davison, the shooter in Plymouth this summer, was referred to the authorities over concerns over his mental health before COVID but nothing was followed up. During COVID, he received some phone support, while at the same time having his gun license renewed. I don’t want to defend or excuse him, his beliefs or his actions, but to me he is a prime example of a massive failure of social services, caused by this government, as is Arthur. 
 

Imagine being a health visitor like Benguins wife knowing you can’t offer vulnerable people the best possible service because you don’t have enough staff, resources or even time?

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Like Raj says, infrastructure in many sectors is falling to bits. It’s not even neglect, it’s the active degradation of the services we rely on, having their capacity, staff and funding slashed to such an extent that it can’t cover what is needed and then cases like this fall through the cracks. 
 

Take mental health services for example. 25% fewer beds available than in 2010. My friends mum works in the sector (generally with rehabilitation) and back in 2015 she told me her team had been cut from 11 to 2, with the same workload. I bumped into her recently and she had just retired early because she hated what it has become so much. 10 years ago they were able to support people for 3 years - these were vulnerable people with extreme mental health issues who may be a danger to themselves and others. That’s been cut year after year due to funding and staff shortages, and now they have two weeks. Two weeks in which to support and rehabilitate vulnerable people. It’s no wonder people fall through the cracks.

 

Jake Davison, the shooter in Plymouth this summer, was referred to the authorities over concerns over his mental health before COVID but nothing was followed up. During COVID, he received some phone support, while at the same time having his gun license renewed. I don’t want to defend or excuse him, his beliefs or his actions, but to me he is a prime example of a massive failure of social services, caused by this government, as is Arthur. 
 

Imagine being a health visitor like Benguins wife knowing you can’t offer vulnerable people the best possible service because you don’t have enough staff, resources or even time?

I have become increasingly infuriated by the lack of support for those suffering MH issues and maybe this should go in the Depression topic but, our 29yr old daughter has been sectioned 3 times in 8 years. She has BPD level 3, (quite severe), she suffers quite acute, but manageable, episodes of depression. About 6 months ago she stood on a rail track waiting for a train. We called the police, they were excellent and she had already got away from the line when they arrived. She was taken by them to the EPAU (emergency psychiatric assessment unit) at Glenfield. Subsequently discharged because she assured them, during her assessment, that it wasn't going to be an "actual" attempt on her own life. The psych team referred her to the Crisis team. It took 5 days for them to contact her. Since then she's only had telephone consultations as a result of which her meds were changed. That's all. 

MH and social care, of all aspects, is a seriously underfunded Cinderella part of the NHS. Shameful.

[Wymsey]

9 minutes ago, Parafox said:

I have become increasingly infuriated by the lack of support for those suffering MH issues and maybe this should go in the Depression topic but, our 29yr old daughter has been sectioned 3 times in 8 years. She has BPD level 3, (quite severe), she suffers quite acute, but manageable, episodes of depression. About 6 months ago she stood on a rail track waiting for a train. We called the police, they were excellent and she had already got away from the line when they arrived. She was taken by them to the EPAU (emergency psychiatric assessment unit) at Glenfield. Subsequently discharged because she assured them, during her assessment, that it wasn't going to be an "actual" attempt on her own life. The psych team referred her to the Crisis team. It took 5 days for them to contact her. Since then she's only had telephone consultations as a result of which her meds were changed. That's all. 

MH and social care, of all aspects, is a seriously underfunded Cinderella part of the NHS. Shameful.

That's sad and true.

 

Heard from a staff member on my LRI ward that the LRI management committee are thinking about creating a dedicated mental health unit at the site.

Edited 4 December 2021 by Wymsey

[Parafox]

5 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

That's sad and true.

 

Heard from a staff member on my LRI ward that the LRI management committee are thinking about creating a dedicated mental health unit at the site.

I really hope they can do something. In my view, both from professional and personal experience, there needs to be a dedicated emergency MHU, not just an "assessment unit", but one where people suffering a crisis can be admitted for their own safety. This, in itself would take some pressure off A&E. Seems a no brainer to me but I don't manage the budget.

Edited 4 December 2021 by Parafox

[Wymsey]

Just now, Parafox said:

I really hope they can do something. In my view, both from professional and personal experience, there needs to be a dedicated emergency MHU, not just an "assessment unit", but one where people suffering a crisis can be admitted for their own safety.

We have two patients on our ward who are meant to be at the Bradgate Unit, but that Unit is apparently in high-demand at present and some medical wards like ours are having to temporarily deal with patients who are not really meant to be on the ward.

 

I certainly concur with you, here; especially when MH seems like it has very much affected many people during the pandemic in particular.

[Parafox]

Just now, Wymsey said:

We have two patients on our ward who are meant to be at the Bradgate Unit, but that Unit is apparently in high-demand at present and some medical wards like ours are having to temporarily deal with patients who are not really meant to be on the ward.

 

I certainly concur with you, here; especially when MH seems like it has very much affected many people during the pandemic in particular.

Our daughter has been on the Bradgate. It's awful. Very little interaction with staff or so-called support, no stimulating activities. There are some but it's needlework or painting or talking groups. It works for some but most of those I met whilst visiting my daughter need more than that. They needed human interaction with someone who actually understood them rather than a nurse who'd done a course. There were a couple of nurses that actually did engage and try to support, but generally, it was about if you want a hot drink, there's the kitchen, if you want a smoke let us know and we'll let you go outside. If someone steals your toiletries, we'll have a look on the CCTV. Bollocks will they.

[urban.spaceman]

19 hours ago, Parafox said:

I have become increasingly infuriated by the lack of support for those suffering MH issues and maybe this should go in the Depression topic but, our 29yr old daughter has been sectioned 3 times in 8 years. She has BPD level 3, (quite severe), she suffers quite acute, but manageable, episodes of depression. About 6 months ago she stood on a rail track waiting for a train. We called the police, they were excellent and she had already got away from the line when they arrived. She was taken by them to the EPAU (emergency psychiatric assessment unit) at Glenfield. Subsequently discharged because she assured them, during her assessment, that it wasn't going to be an "actual" attempt on her own life. The psych team referred her to the Crisis team. It took 5 days for them to contact her. Since then she's only had telephone consultations as a result of which her meds were changed. That's all. 

MH and social care, of all aspects, is a seriously underfunded Cinderella part of the NHS. Shameful.

 

19 hours ago, Wymsey said:

That's sad and true.

 

Heard from a staff member on my LRI ward that the LRI management committee are thinking about creating a dedicated mental health unit at the site.

 

19 hours ago, Parafox said:

I really hope they can do something. In my view, both from professional and personal experience, there needs to be a dedicated emergency MHU, not just an "assessment unit", but one where people suffering a crisis can be admitted for their own safety. This, in itself would take some pressure off A&E. Seems a no brainer to me but I don't manage the budget.

 

19 hours ago, Wymsey said:

We have two patients on our ward who are meant to be at the Bradgate Unit, but that Unit is apparently in high-demand at present and some medical wards like ours are having to temporarily deal with patients who are not really meant to be on the ward.

 

I certainly concur with you, here; especially when MH seems like it has very much affected many people during the pandemic in particular.

 

19 hours ago, Parafox said:

Our daughter has been on the Bradgate. It's awful. Very little interaction with staff or so-called support, no stimulating activities. There are some but it's needlework or painting or talking groups. It works for some but most of those I met whilst visiting my daughter need more than that. They needed human interaction with someone who actually understood them rather than a nurse who'd done a course. There were a couple of nurses that actually did engage and try to support, but generally, it was about if you want a hot drink, there's the kitchen, if you want a smoke let us know and we'll let you go outside. If someone steals your toiletries, we'll have a look on the CCTV. Bollocks will they.

Awful to read Para. Sorry she's so ill. As we know from the Depression thread one person's ill mental health can have a profound effect on their entire family, so I wish you and her well with this ordeal. 

 

To be honest, I've worked in/been connected to in the special needs/mental health sector for more than 25 years, since I was about 6 or 7. My mum worked in a special needs school and I'd go with her during the summer schemes every year until I was old enough to have responsibilities and be useful. Public acceptance of people with learning difficulties, special needs or mental health issues has without a doubt improved incredibly in that time - the London 2012 Paralympics definitely contributed to that IMO. The staff are still and have always been amazing at what they do - mostly women too - they're spending 8-9 hours a day outnumbered with large groups of vulnerable people with a multitude of issues and personalities. Being assaulted, kicked, bitten, punched, intimidated, insulted, pissed or shat on is a daily occurrence but they do it because they love the job and love working with and helping vulnerable people.

 

But one constant, even through the Labour years, is the lack of support they get. It's just not valued enough by the authorities - the average pay is so low that it's generally staffed by people whose partner earns enough for their family anyway. It's still not really a liveable wage which is just one of the reasons I'm constantly trying to move into a better paid industry/sector.

 

I just don't see a positive future for it while we have a government like this. The phrase "they know the price of everything but the value of nothing" couldn't be truer - they not only just don't care they actively want to make it worse. Absolutely ****ing sinister.

[Unabomber]

I read about poor Arthur’s story weeks ago. Why is it only now making the headlines? I remember when I read about it and I was close to tears. It is just unbelievable that they would treat an innocent child like that. And for the fella it is his son! Wtf I hope he gets ****ed up and killed asap in prison.

[Tielemans63]

BBC News - Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman: Met PCs jailed for crime scene images
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59474472

 

 

Absolutely disgraceful. To have such disregard for two murdered women. Unbelievable