Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Finnegan]

My mind is blown that the most right wing poster on the forum wants the voting age raised.

[Finnegan]

17 hours ago, Stadt said:

At 16 I was a raging neo-liberal and sometimes actively disliked people for their politics. I would have said I was more politically aware than most of my peers then too. Obviously highly anecdotal but I think that you’re not enough of a critical thinker (you could say that about most adults as well in fairness) at 18 and nor are you very self-aware typically.

 

There are retarded voters of every age, there's an absolutely flooding abundance of elderly voters who just vote whatever populist tabloids tell them to with zero political awareness and a wealth of outdated, backwards, bigoted views that most of us are glad are going extinct. 

 

For balance, there's also a wealth of students neo liberals that'll also vote whatever way their favourite edgy celebrity says they should with no clue what their chosen party's manifesto actually contains. 

 

The point of democracy is that all of these people get a voice, I mean they've all got to live in this country and if you're old enough to work and pay income taxes then you should get a say on how the country is run. 

Edited 17 May 2020 by Finnegan

[Charl91]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

My daughter is working from home atm. For a start she was using my computer, until they provided her with one. She's using my WiFi, my electricity, my property. I say to her, only half jokingly, that her firm ought to pay me something for using my facilities. I do actually think I've got a point. 

Apologies if you already know this, but you can claim tax breaks for working from home.

 

https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/working-at-home

[Webbo]

6 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

Apologies if you already know this, but you can claim tax breaks for working from home.

 

https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/working-at-home

She can, I can't.

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, Webbo said:

She can, I can't.

Is she flexible enough to get her head in the sand?

[RonnieTodger]

The voting age is fine. I think the fact that one side wants it lowered and the other wants it raised shows that there’s a good balance. 
 

 

[Webbo]

55 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

The voting age is fine. I think the fact that one side wants it lowered and the other wants it raised shows that there’s a good balance. 
 

 

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting it should be raised.

[Finnaldo]

I can see arguments for enfranchisement for 16-17 year olds but I’m honestly not that bothered as it is, I wasn’t all that bothered at that age either.

 

I think what’s more important is to place more emphasis on critical thinking skills in school. The five years of social media bots, fake news and political memes show disinformation is far too easy to spread on both sides of the political aisle and far too many folks are happy to take things at face value because it fits comfortably into their world view and it means their political champions are rarely if ever wrong.

 

I finished Sixth Form just in time for the 2015 Election and everything that’s followed since, and ‘Critical Thinking’ class was available only to the advanced students and completely optional, which is a shocking message to me. Schools are already very formulaic in that preparation for exams is the ultimate goal, that’s not going to change, but learning to be perceptive and critically review information in front of you is as vital in life as a qualification, it’s not something that should be withheld from the ‘lesser students’ and voluntary to the best. Realistically it should be taught as a basic concept by age 11 to all students as mandatory as English, Science or Maths.

[Stadt]

3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

There are retarded voters of every age, there's an absolutely flooding abundance of elderly voters who just vote whatever populist tabloids tell them to with zero political awareness and a wealth of outdated, backwards, bigoted views that most of us are glad are going extinct. 

 

For balance, there's also a wealth of students neo liberals that'll also vote whatever way their favourite edgy celebrity says they should with no clue what their chosen party's manifesto actually contains. 

 

The point of democracy is that all of these people get a voice, I mean they've all got to live in this country and if you're old enough to work and pay income taxes then you should get a say on how the country is run. 

I meant to say 16 in that post  . I think 18 is about right, obviously some are disappointed by missing out but youth turnout is always underwhelming anyway so having a few more 16 and 17 year olds aren’t going to swing elections anyway 

[Nick]

4 minutes ago, Stadt said:

I meant to say 16 in that post  . I think 18 is about right, obviously some are disappointed by missing out but youth turnout is always underwhelming anyway so having a few more 16 and 17 year olds aren’t going to swing elections anyway 

We need to make political awareness a priority for young people. Not through some lefty teacher but by another vehicle. We need to make governments give a shit about youth and education or things will never change. I guess if you can pay NI and join the armed forces then that’s an age where you should get a vote. 

Edited 17 May 2020 by Swan Lesta

[UpTheLeagueFox]

5 hours ago, Webbo said:

My daughter is working from home atm. For a start she was using my computer, until they provided her with one. She's using my WiFi, my electricity, my property. I say to her, only half jokingly, that her firm ought to pay me something for using my facilities. I do actually think I've got a point. 

If you'd been a better parent and raised her properly, she would've offered to pay something.

 

(I'm only f*kn joshing here, obviously)

[LiberalFox]

Look at Greta Thunberg, she is "too young" to vote (at least in the UK, I don't know the voting age in Sweden) yet she is travelling around the world being invited to discuss climate change with world leaders. To me this is back to front: our leaders shouldn't be taking their direction from a schoolgirl but her emotionally driven yet reasoned arguments about the necessity to confront climate change are very much valid and she should have the right to use the vote to support which ever political party best represents her concerns. 

[Dahnsouff]

10 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

Look at Greta Thunberg, she is "too young" to vote (at least in the UK, I don't know the voting age in Sweden) yet she is travelling around the world being invited to discuss climate change with world leaders. To me this is back to front: our leaders shouldn't be taking their direction from a schoolgirl but her emotionally driven yet reasoned arguments about the necessity to confront climate change are very much valid and she should have the right to use the vote to support which ever political party best represents her concerns. 

Careful, you are back on the underage voting campaign again 

 

…...but seeing as you started it, I will say this, an outlier should never be used to justify a new norm.

[Guest MattP]

18 hours ago, Finnegan said:

There are retarded voters of every age, there's an absolutely flooding abundance of elderly voters who just vote whatever populist tabloids tell them to with zero political awareness and a wealth of outdated, backwards, bigoted views that most of us are glad are going extinct. 

 

For balance, there's also a wealth of students neo liberals that'll also vote whatever way their favourite edgy celebrity says they should with no clue what their chosen party's manifesto actually contains. 

 

The point of democracy is that all of these people get a voice, I mean they've all got to live in this country and if you're old enough to work and pay income taxes then you should get a say on how the country is run. 

You can theoretically work and pay income taxes at any age.

 

I'm happy to leave the voting age at 18, but 21 is far more sensible than 16 these days, especially with such a high percentage of the population going to university.

 

15 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

I can see arguments for enfranchisement for 16-17 year olds but I’m honestly not that bothered as it is, I wasn’t all that bothered at that age either.

 

I think what’s more important is to place more emphasis on critical thinking skills in school. The five years of social media bots, fake news and political memes show disinformation is far too easy to spread on both sides of the political aisle and far too many folks are happy to take things at face value because it fits comfortably into their world view and it means their political champions are rarely if ever wrong.

It's another argument for another day, but social media is in urgent need of global mass regulation. If a newspaper or television spreads deliberate fake news they will be forced to print a retraction or taken to task by OFCOM. Facebook and Twitter however have none of this hanging over them and the users are free to manipulate, lie and spread gossip in a way that no person or news agency would without being dragged through the courts.

 

I'd happily be up for an independent project to go into schools and teach them about politics as well, it would have to be separate of government/teaching staff though due to important of impartiality.

[ealingfox]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

You can theoretically work and pay income taxes at any age.

 

I'm happy to leave the voting age at 18, but 21 is far more sensible than 16 these days, especially with such a high percentage of the population going to university.

 

It's another argument for another day, but social media is in urgent need of global mass regulation. If a newspaper or television spreads deliberate fake news they will be forced to print a retraction or taken to task by OFCOM. Facebook and Twitter however have none of this hanging over them and the users are free to manipulate, lie and spread gossip in a way that no person or news agency would without being dragged through the courts.

 

I'd happily be up for an independent project to go into schools and teach them about politics as well, it would have to be separate of government/teaching staff though due to important of impartiality.

 

This isn't true though is it? You can get done for what you post on Facebook and Twitter and there have been high-profile cases as such.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, ealingfox said:

This isn't true though is it? You can get done for what you post on Facebook and Twitter and there have been high-profile cases as such.

The odd isolated case maybe, an individual v an individual piece of libel as happened with Majid Nawaz v Aaron Bastani.

 

I can't remember a single incident of a person being dragged to court for producing false information about the news or a political party though. It's the scale of it that's the problem.

 

What's your opinion on it anyway? Do you think current regulation is enough?

[The Bear]

I don't think 21 is a realistic age to leave it until people can vote. It's increasingly clear than teenagers nowadays are becoming more political and want a say on how their country, and the world is run. 

 

If anything it will eventually come down to 16. Same age as leaving school.

 

Edited 18 May 2020 by The Bear

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

The odd isolated case maybe, an individual v an individual piece of libel as happened with Majid Nawaz v Aaron Bastani.

 

I can't remember a single incident of a person being dragged to court for producing false information about the news or a political party though. It's the scale of it that's the problem.

 

What's your opinion on it anyway? Do you think current regulation is enough?

It's a huge issue and society really needs to get a grip of the fact that defamation, contempt of court etc need to be taught to the entire population to some degree (not saying to the same degree as people in the legal or media professions etc, but some basics would be a start). Maybe people should have to complete a test displaying their competence when they sign up?

 

A kind of IPSO for social media publishers would go some way to help address the problem (Facebook's new oversight board is a start), but I suspect that would only be able to hold the companies themselves liable for libellous posts or posts which contain disinformation which end up being very widely shared. That's not going to be very effective when there are literally millions of people producing individual content every day on those platforms that would see any professional journalists (rightly) hauled through the courts for if they published it.

 

As with everything, education is the key. But it's going to require a hell of an effort from a hell of a lot of people for us to get anywhere close to tackling it properly. If we don't start taking it more seriously soon our democratic and justice systems will be facing a very real threat.

[Sampson]

47 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I don't think 21 is a realistic age to leave it until people can vote. It's increasingly clear than teenagers nowadays are becoming more political and want a say on how their country, and the world is run. 

 

If anything it will eventually come down to 16. Same age as leaving school.

 

But 20 years ago we didn't think our brains changed that much after the age of 5 or 6.

 

Whereas nowadays there's countless scientific studies showing our white matter, grey matter and frontal cortex are all growing rapidly and people's brains don't reach maturity until around 25. As well as countless studies in recent years showing non-human mammals go through adolescence too and it causes heightened risk taking and greater need to conform with their age group and the biologic impact is quite stark. There used to often be an argument that the concept of a teenager was just created by society and didn't really exist, but that argument seems to have faded away now science has shown it's a distinct biological stage of rapid growth and change in the brain in mammals.

 

Its one of the main reasons why we've raised the age of leaving school from 16 to 18, unless you can prove you have an apprenticeship which is essentially paid education anyway, in recent years. 

 

I think we have a much greater understanding of the biological impact of adolescence these days than we did 20 years ago and it almost universally says adulthood begins a lot later in reality than society deems it to and that human brains take much longer to fully mature than we previously thought.

 

I don't think we should be changing the voting age, but I think if we did there's at least scientific reason to raise it and I can at least kind of understand where that argument comes from.  I don't think there would be any legitimate reason to lower the voting age however, the argument seems to be based off circumstantial and anecdotal evidence at a time scientific consensus says the opposite 

 

Edit: I think the voting age is fine as it is. My argument would more be that it's the other things where higher biological levels of risk-taking could be considered dangerous - like the age to get a driving licence for example I'd probably support raising but the reality is that once these are at a certain age it becomes politically impossible to raise them, regardless of scientific evidence.

Edited 18 May 2020 by Sampson

[Jon the Hat]

13 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

Look at Greta Thunberg, she is "too young" to vote (at least in the UK, I don't know the voting age in Sweden) yet she is travelling around the world being invited to discuss climate change with world leaders. To me this is back to front: our leaders shouldn't be taking their direction from a schoolgirl but her emotionally driven yet reasoned arguments about the necessity to confront climate change are very much valid and she should have the right to use the vote to support which ever political party best represents her concerns. 

Talk about picking the exception to the rule to make a point.  Most 16 year olds can barely tie their shoelaces ffs.

[StanSP]

33 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Talk about picking the exception to the rule to make a point.  Most 16 year olds can barely tie their shoelaces ffs.

What kind of 16 year olds do you know

[filbertway]

Are 16 year olds genuinely political, or do they just like to share videos on social media? I don't think the vote should be age based anyway. I think there should be a test that everybody does to test whether they at least has a basic grasp of different parties policies. Show 20 random policies and answer which party they belong to. If you get 15+ correct then you are allowed to vote.

[Gordon the Great]

On 17/05/2020 at 16:23, Webbo said:

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting it should be raised.

Or anyone serious suggesting it should be lowered..............

[Guest Markyblue]

I think 18 is about right,  let kids have a couple of years after leaving school to form their opinion of the world not their teachers opinion. 

 

[Webbo]

1 hour ago, Gordon the Great said:

Or anyone serious suggesting it should be lowered..............

There are political  parties that are.