Söyüncü Signs

[st albans fox]

I assume that Puel has watched him for the U23 and decided he cannot yet trust him at prem level. Until he starts performing well with the younger team then I doubt we will see him let loose with the firsts .....

 

 whether the problem is Puel not explaining properly to Caglar the situation or the player not wanting to take this on board we don’t know. Tbh, a regular international feeling he isn’t trusted risks a repeat of the dragovic situation last season where a split established between player and manager.   

[Foxxed]

2 hours ago, murphy said:

You spelled Melancholic, rhythm and Picasso wrong.

 

Spelt it wrong, did he?

[murphy]

9 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Spelt it wrong, did he?

Spelled or spelt.   Either are acceptable.

 

If you're going to correct me, at least get it right.

 

Call yourself a pedant?  Pah. 

Edited 9 October 2018 by murphy

[Ric Flair]

11 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I assume that Puel has watched him for the U23 and decided he cannot yet trust him at prem level. Until he starts performing well with the younger team then I doubt we will see him let loose with the firsts .....

 

 whether the problem is Puel not explaining properly to Caglar the situation or the player not wanting to take this on board we don’t know. Tbh, a regular international feeling he isn’t trusted risks a repeat of the dragovic situation last season where a split established between player and manager.   

I’d be surprised if it’s solely his performances for the U23’s, usually they are a fitness exercise for first team players. Let’s be honest, very rarely has a player whose ripped it up in the U23’s been rewarded with a go in the first team anyway.

 

You’be got to wonder how bad must he actually be at defending if Puel doesn’t trust him, baring in mind how many mistakes he’s afforded Chilwell, Morgan and is seeming to be willing to do the same for Ricardo and Amartey. Puel isn’t a harsh manager when he’s decided he has faith in you, mistakes are accepted as a path to improvement and gaining experience to become more consistent. 

 

Theres paying £25m for one of Europe’s coveted young defenders and them being eased in and then there’s not even giving him any first team football of any note, cup or otherwise. It’s unusual and probably an indication that all’s not well. I’m sure him being injured and having no pre-season with us won’t help but I’m still perplexed why we didn’t sign him and leave him at Freiburg for another season, especially if Puel is at odds with Macia and Rudkin on our defence. 

[Buce]

10 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Spelt it wrong, did he?

 

23 minutes ago, murphy said:

Spelled or spelt.   Either are acceptable.

 

If you're going to correct me, at least get it right.

 

Call yourself a pedant?  Pah. 

 

Although spelled has become acceptable in the UK (due to the creeping Americanisation of our language), spelt is the correct form of the verb in UK English.

 

https://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/spelled_spelt.htm

[murphy]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

Although spelled has become acceptable in the UK (due to the creeping Americanisation of our language), spelt is the correct form of the verb in UK English.

 

https://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/spelled_spelt.htm

Yes, well googled.  It may have been US influenced, as so much of our language is, but both are correct now.

 

Look we can take this to pedants corner if you want.

 

Don't think I'm not sad enough!

Edited 9 October 2018 by murphy

[Buce]

16 minutes ago, murphy said:

Yes, it may have been US influenced, as so much of our language is, but both are correct now.

 

Look we can take this to pedants corner if you want.

 

Don't think I'm not sad enough!

 

No need, I was just educating for the sake of it.

 

It's an interesting point, though - at what stage is a word judged to be acceptable English, and by whom?

Edited 9 October 2018 by Buce

[murphy]

36 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

No need, I was just educating for the sake of it.

 

It's an interesting point, though - at what stage is a word judged to be acceptable English, and by whom?

Probably through usage.  I mean nobody queries the word 'OK' do they?

 

Shall we move on 

[Matt]

20 hours ago, Abrasive fox said:

Puel had no say in the signing of him, Evans or Benkovic - all Macia.

 

After he badgered them all summer to sign Ghezzal when they thought the priority should be defence - They basically stopped listening to him.

 

Its a similar situation to Jakupovic and Shakespeare. Managers dont respond well to being given players they havent asked for.

 

I must say it has crossed my mind recently regards Evans.

 

He quite simply isn’t a Puel signing. We were after him last summer and signed him this summer and doesn’t fit in with what Puel generally goes with.

 

Thus Puel’s stubbornness in not playing him, whilst it’s true he wasn’t outstanding when given his chance I don’t buy that as a reason why he’s not been given further chances.

 

Again, I’ll go back to last season when Morgan was poor and underperforming. Dragovic came in when Morgan couldn’t play, did an adequate (and better) job but as soon as Morgan was available he was straight back in. If the rumours were to be believed (and they make sense) that was Puel stubbornness showing.

 

I’ve still not had a reason, explanation or decent counter argument to the above.

 

Soyuncu, I have no answer or reason for, the communication excuse I believe is exactly that, an excuse, I think it’s more down to him struggling with reports that from U23 games.

 

If what you have claimed is true, so much for giving Puel a summer to sign “his players”...

 

If only he hadn’t ****ed about and upset Dragovic, he wasn’t perfect, maybe not even the answer but he’s seems damn sight better than what we currently have.

 

Edited 9 October 2018 by Matt

[teblin]

Remember kante didn't start games at the beginning of the season and cambiasso struggled. Give the lad time

[shen]

7 minutes ago, teblin said:

Remember kante didn't start games at the beginning of the season and cambiasso struggled. Give the lad time

Kanté made his debut in our first game of the season and established himself a handful of games later.
Don't think the comparison is fair.

[mozartfox]

9 minutes ago, teblin said:

Remember kante didn't start games at the beginning of the season and cambiasso struggled. Give the lad time

 Well said !     Vardy too......

[TeePee]

1 minute ago, shen said:

Kanté made his debut in our first game of the season and established himself a handful of games later.
Don't think the comparison is fair.

Kanté is also the literal best player in the world in his position and role - if Soyuncu is even two-thirds the player Kante is, he'll be a bloody legend. It's a long season, and all the signs are that we're going to have to move Wes on from the first team at some point - his opportunity will come, and no doubt half the fanbase will have plenty of opportunity to rip him to shreds the first time he loses his man. 

[sylofox]

On 09/10/2018 at 10:07, TeePee said:

 and no doubt half the fanbase will have plenty of opportunity to rip him to shreds the first time he loses his man. 

I bet some minds are already made up. As he can't make the match day squad he is already shite in some minds. 

[lcfc sheff]

Patience my children 

[StriderHiryu]

We are experiencing some common problems that many clubs encounter with a Director of Football / Head of Player Recruitment and Head Coach model. Personally, I think the model is both needed and good to have in modern football given the complexity of player deals and because most Premier League managers have an average duration in charge of around 18 months. Thus clubs that are well run need to have one eye on recruiting players that potentially have value and can get better no matter who is in charge. I'm not saying that Recruitment and Head Coach aren't in sync with one another but these days it's hard not to seperate out the functions.

 

To give some examples from other clubs, Barcelona over the last 2-3 seasons signed Arturo Vidal, Malcom, Ousmane Dembele, Yerry Mina, Lucas Digne yet their coach Valverde has generally shunned these players for those he personally prefers. It doesn't mean the players ar bad or don't have value, but perhaps the coach had other targets in mind. Chelsea are similar (I bet Conte was fuming when the club got him Moratta and Drinkwater instead of better players).

 

So with players like Maddison, Soyuncu, Benkovic and to a lesser extent Harvey Barnes, they fit a player profile that our DOF Jon Rudkin wants for the club and the hope is that these players are also good enough for the Head Coach. But the DOF and Head of Recruitment also need to have one eye on the fact that if the manager was changed (which is highly likely for any Premier League Club over a 5 year period), that the players we have aren't complete disasters and are either decent enough for a new coach to work with or have some resale value. Looking at Adrien Silva as an example it's clear that he's not Puel's cup of tea having been left out of the match day squad completely in recent games. He may not have that much resale value but is the sort of player that another coach may really like depending on the system they play. This is why it's turned out that Papy Mendy has been a decent signing after all, even though he didn't get a look in at all under Shakespeare. I think in modern football that although this can be really frustrating to us supporters, it's par for the course.

 

So with Soyuncu given his age and inexperience in the league the manager is entitled to leave him out if he don't think he's good enough and introduce him slowly over time. The same with Evans and Benkovic. I do personally think we should be trying one of these players instead of Morgan (a situation which is now forced upon us) but Puel has done a very decent job in bringing through both older and youth team players with Leicester, with Ben Chilwell going from understudy to an England capped player who has actually been one of our most consistent players so far this season. So I think it's important to be patient and wait before making judgements on our summer activity.

[Babylon]

47 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

Patience my children 

Doesn't exist seemingly. If we can afford to give people time to settle in, learn the language, get used to a new country, city and culture and don't have to rush them in. Then I'd rather we take that option. We finished top 10, we're still top 10... there is zero need to rush people into the team when it's not needed.

[Stadt]

More like Firebug than Freiburg amirite lads

[Ric Flair]

39 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

We are experiencing some common problems that many clubs encounter with a Director of Football / Head of Player Recruitment and Head Coach model. Personally, I think the model is both needed and good to have in modern football given the complexity of player deals and because most Premier League managers have an average duration in charge of around 18 months. Thus clubs that are well run need to have one eye on recruiting players that potentially have value and can get better no matter who is in charge. I'm not saying that Recruitment and Head Coach aren't in sync with one another but these days it's hard not to seperate out the functions.

 

To give some examples from other clubs, Barcelona over the last 2-3 seasons signed Arturo Vidal, Malcom, Ousmane Dembele, Yerry Mina, Lucas Digne yet their coach Valverde has generally shunned these players for those he personally prefers. It doesn't mean the players ar bad or don't have value, but perhaps the coach had other targets in mind. Chelsea are similar (I bet Conte was fuming when the club got him Moratta and Drinkwater instead of better players).

 

So with players like Maddison, Soyuncu, Benkovic and to a lesser extent Harvey Barnes, they fit a player profile that our DOF Jon Rudkin wants for the club and the hope is that these players are also good enough for the Head Coach. But the DOF and Head of Recruitment also need to have one eye on the fact that if the manager was changed (which is highly likely for any Premier League Club over a 5 year period), that the players we have aren't complete disasters and are either decent enough for a new coach to work with or have some resale value. Looking at Adrien Silva as an example it's clear that he's not Puel's cup of tea having been left out of the match day squad completely in recent games. He may not have that much resale value but is the sort of player that another coach may really like depending on the system they play. This is why it's turned out that Papy Mendy has been a decent signing after all, even though he didn't get a look in at all under Shakespeare. I think in modern football that although this can be really frustrating to us supporters, it's par for the course.

 

So with Soyuncu given his age and inexperience in the league the manager is entitled to leave him out if he don't think he's good enough and introduce him slowly over time. The same with Evans and Benkovic. I do personally think we should be trying one of these players instead of Morgan (a situation which is now forced upon us) but Puel has done a very decent job in bringing through both older and youth team players with Leicester, with Ben Chilwell going from understudy to an England capped player who has actually been one of our most consistent players so far this season. So I think it's important to be patient and wait before making judgements on our summer activity.

You raise some very interesting points but essentially what we are seein here is often massive wastes of money that could be avoided if a common sense approach was taken between the 3 senior departments. I know sometimes they’ll never all agree but if managers never use players that are forced upon them it’s a huge waste of time, effort and money not to mention the players career is potentially at stake. 

 

I actually dont don’t like the fact the manager has no say in who the recruitment staff and DOF are. I get the need to protect the long term future of the club but it’s always the managers that get replaced constantly. There’s got to be another way to get them all working better together, perhaps in time they will as the culture of “ manager “ is replaced by the remit of a “ head coach “ but there’s still an argument that it’s robbing Peter to pay Paul in the reason for having these separate senior roles and whom reports to who. 

[murphy]

Soyuncu and to a lesser extent Benkovic were big money signings.  I am sure that Soyuncu was bought to improve the team and not to piss about in the U23s.  If he hasn't made a single appearance yet, then there is something wrong.  I don't believe that we have the resources to just chuck around tens of millions with a wait and see mentality.  It's not like a £3m punt like Diabate, this guy is an international and cost £22m and plays in a position in which we have serious shortcomings!

 

It could be that he does succeed with us, in the end, but no one knows so we can only judge what the transfer looks like now and it looks like another failure.

 

The premier league is full of players from overseas.  Why is it that other clubs can bring in players from abroad ready to play yet we have to have this tedious settling in period?   

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 October 2018 by murphy

[StriderHiryu]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

You raise some very interesting points but essentially what we are seein here is often massive wastes of money that could be avoided if a common sense approach was taken between the 3 senior departments. I know sometimes they’ll never all agree but if managers never use players that are forced upon them it’s a huge waste of time, effort and money not to mention the players career is potentially at stake. 

Totally agree with you here! Just trying to point out the situation for what it is. But ultimately like any company, business or organisation if the people with decision making and power are working together and in harmony, they will see much better results. I think that Leicester as a net positive are quite good at transfers but it's true that our business post title win has been fairly poor. Maguire is the only one you can say has smashed it, though some others like Maddison, Ricardo and incredibly given his start here Mendy might turn out to be good buys too.

 

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I actually dont don’t like the fact the manager has no say in who the recruitment staff and DOF are. I get the need to protect the long term future of the club but it’s always the managers that get replaced constantly. 

Whilst the Head Coach doesn't get the final say in matters, I am sure he gets a lot of say. I'm pretty sure that Shakespeare was thankful that the club backed him strongly in getting Harry Maguire and Kelechi Ihenacho and I'm pretty sure Puel was backed strongly for at least James Maddison and Ricardo. Where they may have been issues is when he's asked for reinforcements at centre back but has recieved players he's not sure of such as Soyuncu or Benkovic. As for Evans though, given we've been linked with him for the longest time you'd have thought Puel was on board with his signing given that Aleksandr Dragovic was nout purchased despite always playing quite well for us. 

 

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

robbing Peter to pay Paul in the reason for having these separate senior roles and whom reports to who. 

Surely it's robbing Peter to pay Puel! 

[Countryfox]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

Soyuncu and to a lesser extent Benkovic were big money signings.  I am sure that Soyuncu was bought to improve the team and not to piss about in the U23s.  If he hasn't made a single appearance yet, then there is something wrong.  I don't believe that we have the resources to just chuck around tens of millions with a wait and see mentality.  It's not like a £3m punt like Diabate, this guy is an international and cost £22m and plays in a position in which we have serious shortcomings!

 

It could be that he does succeed with us, in the end, but no one knows so we can only judge what the transfer looks like now and it looks like another failure.

 

The premier league is full of players from overseas.  Why is it that other clubs can bring in players from abroad ready to play yet we have to have this tedious settling in period?   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read in the Mercury today ...  which I found surprising ..   that he hasn't impressed in the U23's ...      

[Foxxed]

17 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Read in the Mercury today ...  which I found surprising ..   that he hasn't impressed in the U23's ...      

I thought he looked decent in his first game in the u23s. I didn't watch the next. And I think he was subbed for aggression in the one after. I don't think this is enough time to judge him, especially a 22 year old in a new league and in a new country. He ain't going to instantly replace Morgan, that's for sure, but in time he may be a good player for us.

[WigstonWanderer]

30 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Read in the Mercury today ...  which I found surprising ..   that he hasn't impressed in the U23's ...      

Pretty sure I saw him in an international when he didn’t impress either.

[Countryfox]

17 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

I thought he looked decent in his first game in the u23s. I didn't watch the next. And I think he was subbed for aggression in the one after. I don't think this is enough time to judge him, especially a 22 year old in a new league and in a new country. He ain't going to instantly replace Morgan, that's for sure, but in time he may be a good player for us.

 

8 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Pretty sure I saw him in an international when he didn’t impress either.

 

Who knows ...   but it seemed unusual to me for the Mercury to print that ...   quite telling i thought.

 

I haven't seen him play so cannot give a personal opinion one way or the other.