Leicester 1- Everton 2 post match thread.

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Got to criticise Puel for this loss. First he sets up to completely expose the CBs, then when Wes is clearly struggling, yellow carded and already on a warning for a second card, he leaves him on rather than subbing.

Except the three fouls Morgan committed he wasn’t in anyway exposed. 

 

The first yellow it’s a long aerial ball which Morgan fails to deal with, basically outmuscled. Rather than show him the touchline. His body shape allows himself to be outpaced. Takes him down. 

 

The second and half fouls were on the half way line. Morgan had literally no need to go flying through the back of him. 

 

This whole sub him thing, I’d agree with if the second half was full of Everton pressure. We had begun to pen them in and there was no need to pressure the ball like Morgan did that far up the pitch. 

 

Edited 7 October 2018 by Cardiff_Fox

[Livid]

I love the big guy but I think Wes's days as a starter are gone. His main problem yesterday was trying to play football under pressure when simply getting a toe on the ball and putting it out for a throw in and allowing the defence to regroup would have been the better option. We said at half time one of our back four would see red but my money would have been on Amartey.

 

The first half we were all over the place defensively but had three good chances to score and should have definitely scored twice. We started the second half full of intensity and looked fantastic. The first time this season we've looked really threatening for any real period in a game and I was loving it. Then Wes did his thing and the wheels came off. Sigurdsson scored a worldie and I'm coming away from another game frustrated and hacked off.

 

I'm not signalling out Puel because if we're subbing players when they get a yellow our entire back four could be getting hooked regularly. Collectively they are their own worst enemies though. I know people will point out we're a young side, still learning etc but they're not exactly doing it for me this season.

[Guest ttfn]

It strikes me that a number of the people talking about the number of shots and shots on target are also the same people who refuse to engage with the concept of expected goals.

 

Shots and shots on target are almost entirely meaningless. They don’t give you the context of the chance at all. Saying “we had half as many shots on target as Everton” as if that is a failing of the team or the manager is totally reductive. It ignores the fact that Vardy and Amartey both missed absolute sitters. 

 

Im perfectly happy for us to have half the number of shots on target as Everton as long as we continue to create that quality of opportunity with that regularity.

[Hammo]

I am neither Puel in or Puel out. I just want to see us improve as a team by learning from our mistakes.

 

But I don't see much evidence of this.

 

In fact, my long-held concern about Puel's ability to man-manage and communicate effectively to the players (and yes, his limited, monotonous English is a factor in this) is often betrayed by his post-match interviews such as yesterday's when he complained about our slow start - again! - and the team sitting back when we went down to ten men.

 

He is the manager. He gives the pre-match team talk. He stands on the touch line. He is there to pass on instructions. The way the team plays is nobody else's responsibility but his. And if he can't bring his influence to bear either before or during the game, then we have a fundamental problem.

Edited 7 October 2018 by Hammo

[NaijaFox]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Happens week in, week out. Every game across the country is likely to have one of those battles. You’d expect the manager to trust a defender with the yellow card. 

No, it doesn't.

 

A yellow card may be routine for defenders most weeks and thus no real cause for panic, but a situation where a defender is being run-ragged by the opposing player that he has primary responsibility for resulting in first a yellow card and subsequently in a 'final warning' does not happen week in and week out, and when it does most managers (or at least the successful ones) tend to act to protect the player and the team. Why do you have subs if not to use them? For the avoidance of any doubt, I am neither Puel in or Puel out, but the way Puel was saving up subs yesterday (we still had 3 to make well into the second-half), you would be forgiven to think they were coupons for the local curry joint.   

Edited 7 October 2018 by NaijaFox

[CosbehFox]

Just now, NaijaFox said:

No, it doesn't.

 

 

That’s your belief. I have mine. Purely on a psychological level, a manager subbing off a defender early (particular the captain) creates a problem. 

[TMELcfc]

14 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Everyone sees the game differently and it’s a good discussion to have. 

 

You say it was all Everton in the first 30 minutes but I recall Chilwell crossing to Vardy who headed it wide, Nacho declining to hit it with his right foot when played in and Vardy putting it wide after beating Keane. Admittedly some of those moments may well have been after 30 minutes but we had multiple good chances to score whereas I felt Everton didn’t. We had good control of the game with Mendy highly influential and Chilwell a constant threat. And it eventually led to our equaliser.

 

Up until the sending off we were building the play from the back nicely with Chilwell being hit on the diagonal multiple times and Maddison drifting between the lines to make space and move the opppsition out of position. 

 

In the second half I felt like we turned up the pressure even more with Chilwell very unlucky not to score after a fantastic run. We were definitely in the ascendancy at that point and to me at least we looked the more likely winners. Of course it’s all moot now as we lost! But as others have said that game swung due to one massive decision not going our way. 

 

I know it’s disappointing we are not higher in the league but we’re certainly not a bad team but rather a work in progress. Everton were there to be beaten today which makes it harder to take but we have a young side and this is part of their learning curve. Just a bit disappointing that the man sent off was our most experienced CB!

You make valid points to be fair and everyone as you say sees it differently.

 

But one I can’t hear anymore is we are work in progress... he’s been here pretty much a year and I am still seeing the same things. Possession with no penetration, Wes Morgan, leaky at the back, poor at home.

In fact he has broken us at home, just not the same team anymore. We had hardly any shots on target today... I’d had enough after I think it was West Ham at home? Last season? Anyway there was a match where silva had our first shot on target in 80th minute... at home...

[That_Dude]

15 hours ago, Webbo said:

We didn't.

Happy times. Now you can go on ranting with a big grin on your face.

[weller54]

4 minutes ago, lcfceaves said:

You make valid points to be fair and everyone as you say sees it differently.

 

But one I can’t hear anymore is we are work in progress... he’s been here pretty much a year and I am still seeing the same things. Possession with no penetration, Wes Morgan, leaky at the back, poor at home.

In fact he has broken us at home, just not the same team anymore. We had hardly any shots on target today... I’d had enough after I think it was West Ham at home? Last season? Anyway there was a match where silva had our first shot on target in 80th minute... at home...

What a ridiculous post! 

Pure fantasy!... 

 

...

Silva had a shot???... 

Then.... 

On target!!!!??? 

[ThaiFox]

Blame Puel all you like, but I would think he expected Morgan to have been more savvy with all his experience, just as I did. Morgan fell for it big time as Everton were looking for it. 

 

If Vardy had scored, one great chance he should have buried, two other chances he fluffed, or Armarty had equalized in the last second, which he should have, this whole post would be totally different.

 

I also think Davies should have been sent off for his high stud challenge on Vardy, which I felt was worse than any other tackle in the match. The linesman was also dreadful, flagging several offsides which were very poor decisions.

 

All the reports I have read so far, and my own views on watching the full match live out here, were that we fully deserved our equalizer and we were certainly the better team in the second half, until Morgan's stupid actions.

 

With such a young team, we must expect naive decisions, but we should not expect those naive decisions from our most experienced players, which is why it is puzzling that Morgan x2 and Vardy have been the players sent off this season. Players who should know a lot better and must lead by example.

[cropstonfox]

14 hours ago, Bob Hazels shorts said:

Wes 1 red card in 4 years, 2 red cards in 6 games this season.

 

Two factors either or both could be true.

 

Getting past his best or and Puel is leaving him exposed by playing him with the tin man at right back and no real cover at left back as Maquire is doubling up as a left back to allow Chilwells wing back role.

Spot on.Any centrebavk will be exposed.With the system and fullbavks selected.

[Mickyblueeyes]

Wes getting sent off is unfortunate. Wes getting sent off for a second bookable offence on the bloody half way line (after being warned 5 minutes earlier in a similar position) is diabolical! We came out well in the second half, that sending off killed the game for us. So frustrating.

[Gazza M]

How many times do you see a CB get a yellow in a match? Nearly every game one of them will for either side. That doesn't equate to subbing them off. The defender has to be careful. Wes was stupid. Reminds me of an old bloke in Sunday league constantly fouling the young 21 year olds out of frustration aa he can't get near! 

 

[Bablemikey]

?the idea that subbing off Morgan for Evans is any kind of upgrade! Richarleson would have absolutely annihilated him.

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

Based on MOTD highlights we didn't look too bad and on the chances should have got something. The first goal both Periera/Amartey/Kasper were all culpable and gave a freebie. Their 2nd was simply top draw. Football is a bitch sometimes!!

[Jonaldinho]

15 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

How many times do you see a CB get a yellow in a match? Nearly every game one of them will for either side. That doesn't equate to subbing them off. The defender has to be careful. Wes was stupid. Reminds me of an old bloke in Sunday league constantly fouling the young 21 year olds out of frustration aa he can't get near! 

 

 

I do kind of see this argument but we ended up with 10 men and losing because of it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but after the foul on the sideline a red card seemed inevitable.

 

4 minutes ago, Bablemikey said:

?the idea that subbing off Morgan for Evans is any kind of upgrade! Richarleson would have absolutely annihilated him.

 

Well we would've had 11 men at least. 

[mozartfox]

I am certainly not in the Puel out 'camp' at the moment, BUT his persistence in playing Morgan is baffling.   He was never a CB that was capable of playing the ball out to the midfield with the aim of starting a forward move. So Puel has removed the previous hoof and hope clearance option from Wes's Menu and is now expecting him to suddenly become Franz Beckenbauer at 34 YOA!   Wes looks totally uncomfortable in possession.   Couple this with his obvious lack of speed and his fast deteriorating mobility, plus facing him up against mobile/speedy opponents, and all this whilst in tandem with another relatively slow CB partner (Maguire) is not clever.   Maguire needs speed alongside him and what is really worrying, Evans is not the answer.

 

So Soyuncu needs to be given a chance soonest and Benkovic recalled at the earliest opportunity. Farming out players to the SPL is not the answer.     This CB problem has lingered ever since Puel's arrival and even when he had an option in Dragovic, he screwed that up!  I thought we had resolved this in the last window, but apparently not.  

 

We won the PL with two slow CB's back because we had Kante who forced the opponents out wide.

 

The defense is the root of our problem. As people have pointed out, we had chances yesterday but were undone by an act of stupidity by someone who should know better.  

 

Now if Puel continues to ignore this Morgan situation, it will only serve to pile more pressure on himself.

 

Every player (including legends) reaches the point when they can no longer do it week in and week out.  The EPL is an unforgiving place.

[ForeverandEver]

Puel just reminds me of a supply teacher at school where you can get away with everything & you know your not really going to get into trouble.

 

 

[norwichfox]

Guess we won't be winning the fair play league this season, thanks a bunch Wes, I think it may have been mentioned before in this thread, bit it's time for you to move on.

[st albans fox]

Puel could have referred to Wes as naive or stupid/silly in his post match interview but he chose to defend him. Is that just a manager protecting his player b6 keeping stuff in house or does it hide a bigger issue where the changing room dynamic continues to run the first team  (ironically something that Nigel intorduced).  Two tricky games ahead for Evans to push his case and then presumably Wes comes back for the league cup clash. Interesting that we chose to move amartey to centre half whilst we continued 4-4 after the sending off. Good enough for Ghana in that position but not better than Wes ?????

[l444ry]

2 hours ago, ttfn said:

It strikes me that a number of the people talking about the number of shots and shots on target are also the same people who refuse to engage with the concept of expected goals.

 

Shots and shots on target are almost entirely meaningless. They don’t give you the context of the chance at all. Saying “we had half as many shots on target as Everton” as if that is a failing of the team or the manager is totally reductive. It ignores the fact that Vardy and Amartey both missed absolute sitters. 

 

Im perfectly happy for us to have half the number of shots on target as Everton as long as we continue to create that quality of opportunity with that regularity.

Despite having plenty of possession again, which is not always the same as controlling the game, we created very little that way. It's interesting to note that Ricardo's goal, Vardy's one on one miss were again from counter attacks and Amartey's miss was again from a corner. Most of the support for the Puel revolution is that our counter attack style under Ranieri had been rumbled and that an overhaul was needed. One year down the line and it seems to me that this so-called "possession game" has been rumbled and exposed already and heading for the rocks unless Puel mixes things up somehow, 

Edited 7 October 2018 by l444ry

[KingKoala]

Personally I don't really like blaming players for poor performance but manager for selecting wrong players or tactics.

Players are doing their best in their current capabilities and it's manager to pick them..

[ithuriel]

6 hours ago, J.Lisemore said:

Not as bad obviously but he reminds me a bit of Paolo Sousa, stuck in his ways and has no plan B. 

Reminds me more of Sven and yes, stuck to one plan and not very flexible.

When he first came, I was in the give him a chance camp, after the slog through the tedious, garbage phase of last season though, I turned against him but decided to give him another chance this season but he is not helping himself, do not know if it was my imagination but I was certain I heard a fair few boos yesterday at the final whistle.

Edited 7 October 2018 by ithuriel

[Marutimon]

59 minutes ago, Marshall Cockney Fox said:

Based on MOTD highlights we didn't look too bad and on the chances should have got something. The first goal both Periera/Amartey/Kasper were all culpable and gave a freebie.

The primary player culpable was Maendy but he can do no wrong apparently.

Edited 7 October 2018 by Marutimon

[Bunyip]

2 hours ago, Hammo said:

I am neither Puel in or Puel out. I just want to see us improve as a team by learning from our mistakes.

 

But I don't see much evidence of this.

 

In fact, my long-held concern about Puel's ability to man-manage and communicate effectively to the players (and yes, his limited, monotonous English is a factor in this) is often betrayed by his post-match interviews such as yesterday's when he complained about our slow start - again! - and the team sitting back when we went down to ten men.

 

He is the manager. He gives the pre-match team talk. He stands on the touch line. He is there to pass on instructions. The way the team plays is nobody else's responsibility but his. And if he can't bring his influence to bear either before or during the game, then we have a fundamental problem.

Yes very strange. Did anyone else see Albrighton come on with a piece of paper with instructions to tell the other players what Puel wanted?