Lack of creativity under Puel

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Last night's 'performance' (despite the win) being unable to score at home to the side with probably the lowest confidence in the PL and a manager openly being touted as a gonner, has finally turned me against Puel and his methods, after being on the fence for so long.

 

I appreciate Puel has many good points - the pretty football, improved technique and the emphasis on youth. But his football has no penetration and a result we are struggling to beat poor and defensive sides which should be our bread and butter now, and has been for most of our time in the PL.

 

In particular, at home when the emphasis is on us to attack against a side sat back, we look clueless, and this is not due to lacking the personnel - it is Puel's refusal to have the team take risks and push players forward. Southampton had the same gripes under him - and can't him changing now.

 

We have good players and should be looking a better team - it's the manager who is below par. #puelOUT

You see.!! This is where your argument falls over..blind-faith and Bias.

our Players are not has good as many fans believe..We have nobody who drives forward,and takes the initiative,and that is not because,

Puel is holding them back. Ndidi's ball control and passing,when on the front foot leaves somewhat to be desired.

Plus the team actually has created quite a few clear cut chances that have not been converted...

Even in our title year,we had drab 1-0 wins,that nobody cared about because we all rode the wave...

 

Plus too many carp on ,wishing to relive,the  explosive movements we shown ,let's say 2 out of 3 games

,but the midfield had also a different Dynamic,and it's obvious we couldn't repeat it...Ranieri's and Shakespeare's sacking proved that it was an hard act to follow.

You can't keep complaining that this or that player is poor,shout out that our recruitment has been crap,since the title year!!!

then keep hammering the manager,whos under his tenure,has given all inheritted players their chances,invested in youth,where 3 have

had their first tastes of full England squad,plus Maguire breaking into that England team. Invested for the future in 2 young CBs,where both

are showing they look like good investments. He trusted in a player many doubted,to take over one of our awkward positions,and until his

injury was starting to take the plaudits...

 

Many just can't understand a season is not long enough,to take on that challenge of changing the ethos, and the aging Bbone of player legends.

Some critics have quite immature attacked young players who were/are still making their way into the PL,and have forgot to 1st encourage and support are the first priorities,when these players are breaking into the 1st team,and it isn't done after,their real first full season...Ala Gray and Chilwell!!!I

 

The worst and real boring part,are the same posters repeating Puel out, EVERY FKING WEEK. and making it feel like some arrogant unofficial campaign supported by all,or they themselves are the only ones who can actually see the problems

,then to confirm it,construct conspiracy theories of a fractured Dressing room,when 1-2players

show their dissatisfaction or moans,over something of other...

 

I knew one thing,when Puel was appointment,it was going to be a long hard haul of a job...

and he ( or any manager )would need 1-3 seasons.

Even then,it could all backfire.I also get frustrated seeing the team sometimes struggle,or not yet reach the hights of my own hopes and wishes.

We were in dire straights,Ranieri by breaking up the successful,taking many years to build that successfull B.room team,made it more difficult for any outside incoming manager. Shakespeare's "my boys" attitude was ok for a short adrenalin forge forward,

but the squad was breaking up,and new/fringe players were just dropped in, and not planned with any forethought!!!

It could be that Puel s rebuild and needed redevelopement, Might not take us to where we would arrogantly expect to be,

but at the moment for me,it's slow ,though so far so good.

We are at the moment,what we are..A mid-table team,who are ,like it or not,having to rebuild,we have gone from extacy to near squad collapse,We needed someone to catch it and hold it together,then slowly bring it together....

A big name,or others put forward before Puel,many would of tried a rush job and seen us in the championship,others might of succeeded..

Any manager has to take the critic,but IMO he's doing an OK job,for what I always seen has a needed change in direction...

 

January new transfer needs,if partly successfully will not change our seasons path,but hopefully confirm that

we can take big strides in our progress,

Though January transfers,I never expect too much. And until we can bring in a quality midfield and Striker,our progress and development will be slow!!this present squad,despite my dream ambitions,are only good at best for top 8-11.

If the team is still off the pace..I still see the individuals...Chilwell,Gray,Maguire,Maddison,Amartey,then Soyuncu,

making this season a success.

If  Ndidi can refind that potential,and Mendy grows more into his role...I say Puel's tenure,so far is a good one,but recognise performance qualityhas to pick up,that is more important IMO than either finishing 12th or 7th...

so for every posters  critic of Puel,who jumps on every single misdemeanor...I will take the same tact....

We are at present comfortably holding 10th...and again facing Man.city in the Quarter finals of a cup competition..!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 November 2018 by fuchsntf

[Babylon]

It wasn't that long ago people were screaming about the defence and how we let too many in. We currently have conceded less than Bournemouth, Man U and only one more than Arsenal. We've only conceded two goals in 450 minutes of football. I think both of them were set pieces as well weren't they?

 

If you're into your expected goals and points etc. We'd be 8th if we'd finished the chances we've had and not conceded where normally you shouldn't. We really aren't miles away from being ok, we just need to take the final few steps.

[bfox]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

The lack of movement has been one of by issues for some time, which I think we mentioned before. It's ludicrous to play a passing game without it.

 

I've also rarely seen a team who constantly seems to not have enough people supporting the strikers, whilst also not having enough cover in defence and being out numbered in midfield. How's that even possible!

 

 

I know right, almost seems like we're playing with 10 men a lot of the time.... oh wait

 

N'didi just sort of sits behind the edge of the box every time we're anywhere near their goal. God knows why as he can't shoot or pass quickly for shit - probably well documented by other teams. Anytime they make a quick break he's well out of position. Mendy is a little bit more rounded as a footballer than Ndidi. Would like to see us play the smart passes through the middle a lot more, when our main creative outlets are our wingers putting in crosses we have a problem. Should be using them just as much to creative space in the middle.

Edited 28 November 2018 by bfox

[UpTheLeagueFox]

You can see players getting frustrated at the way they've been told to play by Puel.

They want more flexibility to mix it up but they feel under pressure not to.

 

Just to balance things up, Puel's interviews have got a little louder with a little less waffle.

[Babylon]

6 minutes ago, bfox said:

I know right, almost seems like we're playing with 10 men a lot of the time.... oh wait

Ha ha fair point

[Tringfox]

21 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

You can see players getting frustrated at the way they've been told to play by Puel.

They want more flexibility to mix it up but they feel under pressure not to.

 

Just to balance things up, Puel's interviews have got a little louder with a little less waffle.

Not so sure about the interview part, Captain Birdseye is Puels biggest fan!

[Guest MattP]

Many reasons I think, most of them covered in here. We have very few players who can play a defence splitting forward pass, not much creation in the centre of midfield, we have a back four and NDidi and Mendy which means we are starting with 7 defensive players out 11 on the pitch and that's going to be negative even if your full backs are bombing forward.

Why we play two defensive midfielders at home to teams like Burnley I have no idea. No need for it at all. I'm still on the fence with Puel but the football is intolerable at times and it's baffling watching what he's trying to do with the players he has.

[kingfox]

 

It's not like we're not getting in the right areas, Chilwell is amongst the top ten for the most crosses this season, Albrighton just outside that bracket. 

 

Our creation comes from wide areas, stats prove it. As it was made mention of the other week we don't have a target man, we don't have a plan B, a target man would thrive on the amount of crosses we get into the box. 

 

We get in the right areas but don't create enough chances on goal because our players don't commit themselves, we aren't going to get anywhere when we are crossing the ball into one player with three defenders on him.

[steflcfc]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

Many reasons I think, most of them covered in here. We have very few players who can play a defence splitting forward pass, not much creation in the centre of midfield, we have a back four and NDidi and Mendy which means we are starting with 7 defensive players out 11 on the pitch and that's going to be negative even if your full backs are bombing forward.

Why we play two defensive midfielders at home to teams like Burnley I have no idea. No need for it at all. I'm still on the fence with Puel but the football is intolerable at times and it's baffling watching what he's trying to do with the players he has.

Pretty much agree with most of this.

 

Although do feel Puel hasn’t got the players he needs to make his vision of the football he wants.

 

He is still shaping the squad and we do have a fair few “deadwood” players picking up serious £££

 

Untill these players (we all know who they are) are moved off wage bill and squad trimmed, he can then get players he requires.

 

Im sure Puel knows he has limited options and his hands are tied till next year.

 

We do have some young players coming through with the flashes of experience, it will all come together it will just take time.

 

Any manager coming in will still have the same limited Centre Midfielders  and ageing CB’s in Morgan and Evans so the same issues will arise.

 

Like (dare I say his name) Pearson inherited, their is a lot of work just to sort the current squad out without additions coming in.

We could all name 8/10 players that don’t fit in at the club or are surplus to requirements.

Im sure Puel has a lot of the same reservations we do on here.

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, OhYesNdidi said:

It’s not just puel though. The last two managers have had the same problem. & imo, creatively our players aren’t very good

Especially when you take into account, in Puel's era, the lack of commitment or indeed presence of a certain Mr R. Mahrez.

[lgfualol]

Seem to remember posts on here saying Mahrez was holding us back. Hmm. 

[lcfc sheff]

Our midfield isn’t good enough, that goes for the wingers and centre mids, with the exception of Ndidi.

 

We need to invest big into that department but I think the rest is good enough. 

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

You can see players getting frustrated at the way they've been told to play by Puel.

Is this opinion or informed semi fact? 

 

1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

They want more flexibility to mix it up but they feel under pressure not to. 

Same question

[hackneyfox]

2 hours ago, fairbanksh said:

 

Yes we are mid table in a poor league( apart from top 5)

 

2 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

With the notable exception of @The whole world smileseople can say we're mid-table and safe but in a league this weak it's nothing to shout about and Puel has had time to bring in players that suit his style - it's the style that's the issue.

Weak League?

Teams at the bottom probably have more internationals playing for them than at any other time in the history of the top division.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

27 minutes ago, kingfox said:

 

It's not like we're not getting in the right areas, Chilwell is amongst the top ten for the most crosses this season, Albrighton just outside that bracket. 

 

Our creation comes from wide areas, stats prove it. As it was made mention of the other week we don't have a target man, we don't have a plan B, a target man would thrive on the amount of crosses we get into the box. 

 

We get in the right areas but don't create enough chances on goal because our players don't commit themselves, we aren't going to get anywhere when we are crossing the ball into one player with three defenders on him.

Spot on - we're good at working it to the byline or parallel to the box to get in a position to cross but from there on just clueless on how to score from it- Puel should be working on this but it's Vardy vs the opponent's entire defence - pointless.

[matty98]

We really need Vardy playing like he did against Brighton, when he does it really pushes the whole team on and creates space and movement. Still think we're missing a midfielder that's a good passer and a winger with good vision

 

[HankMarvin]

4 hours ago, shilton_fox said:

I do understand the frustration but when you take 9 changes into account, with 2 attacking full backs replaced by 2 defensive full backs, you can see why creativity was limited. We’ve stopped shipping goals now which I feel was a bigger problem. Fully believe it’ll come together up top in time, 1 or 2 quality acquisitions needed. But we can’t be to doom and gloom about it all, 10th scored in every premier league match but 1 this season and quarter final of a cup! I’d have snapped ya hand off for that when we first got promoted!

We have stopped shipping goals against 

 

The mighty West Ham with 10 men

Cardif

Burnley

Brighton

Southampton 

 

Bit of a false dawn as there not really know for their goal scoring exploits 

In fact 3 of the teams had the worst defensive record in the league and we managed one Pen in 300 mins

[Lovejoy]

22 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

Our midfield isn’t good enough, that goes for the wingers and centre mids, with the exception of Ndidi.

 

We need to invest big into that department but I think the rest is good enough. 

I find it really weird this doesn’t get talked about, our midfield really is holding us back. No deeplying playmaker, no b2b midfielder, Gray aside no pace on the flanks, no goal threat from the wingers/inside forwards.

 

Hopefully the recruitment team are working on this over the next two windows.

[lcfc sheff]

44 minutes ago, Lovejoy said:

I find it really weird this doesn’t get talked about, our midfield really is holding us back. No deeplying playmaker, no b2b midfielder, Gray aside no pace on the flanks, no goal threat from the wingers/inside forwards.

 

Hopefully the recruitment team are working on this over the next two windows.

Agree completely.

 

Gray doesn’t even use his pace in most games it’s bizzare, he could blitz most the fullbacks in the league but decides to cut in every time. 

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

You see.!! This is where your argument falls over..blind-faith and Bias.

our Players are not has good as many fans believe..We have nobody who drives forward,and takes the initiative,and that is not because,

Puel is holding them back. Ndidi's ball control and passing,when on the front foot leaves somewhat to be desired.

Plus the team actually has created quite a few clear cut chances that have not been converted...

Even in our title year,we had drab 1-0 wins,that nobody cared about because we all rode the wave...

 

Plus too many carp on ,wishing to relive,the  explosive movements we shown ,let's say 2 out of 3 games

,but the midfield had also a different Dynamic,and it's obvious we couldn't repeat it...Ranieri's and Shakespeare's sacking proved that it was an hard act to follow.

You can't keep complaining that this or that player is poor,shout out that our recruitment has been crap,since the title year!!!

then keep hammering the manager,whos under his tenure,has given all inheritted players their chances,invested in youth,where 3 have

had their first tastes of full England squad,plus Maguire breaking into that England team. Invested for the future in 2 young CBs,where both

are showing they look like good investments. He trusted in a player many doubted,to take over one of our awkward positions,and until his

injury was starting to take the plaudits...

 

Many just can't understand a season is not long enough,to take on that challenge of changing the ethos, and the aging Bbone of player legends.

Some critics have quite immature attacked young players who were/are still making their way into the PL,and have forgot to 1st encourage and support are the first priorities,when these players are breaking into the 1st team,and it isn't done after,their real first full season...Ala Gray and Chilwell!!!I

 

The worst and real boring part,are the same posters repeating Puel out, EVERY FKING WEEK. and making it feel like some arrogant unofficial campaign supported by all,or they themselves are the only ones who can actually see the problems

,then to confirm it,construct conspiracy theories of a fractured Dressing room,when 1-2players

show their dissatisfaction or moans,over something of other...

 

I knew one thing,when Puel was appointment,it was going to be a long hard haul of a job...

and he ( or any manager )would need 1-3 seasons.

Even then,it could all backfire.I also get frustrated seeing the team sometimes struggle,or not yet reach the hights of my own hopes and wishes.

We were in dire straights,Ranieri by breaking up the successful,taking many years to build that successfull B.room team,made it more difficult for any outside incoming manager. Shakespeare's "my boys" attitude was ok for a short adrenalin forge forward,

but the squad was breaking up,and new/fringe players were just dropped in, and not planned with any forethought!!!

It could be that Puel s rebuild and needed redevelopement, Might not take us to where we would arrogantly expect to be,

but at the moment for me,it's slow ,though so far so good.

We are at the moment,what we are..A mid-table team,who are ,like it or not,having to rebuild,we have gone from extacy to near squad collapse,We needed someone to catch it and hold it together,then slowly bring it together....

A big name,or others put forward before Puel,many would of tried a rush job and seen us in the championship,others might of succeeded..

Any manager has to take the critic,but IMO he's doing an OK job,for what I always seen has a needed change in direction...

 

January new transfer needs,if partly successfully will not change our seasons path,but hopefully confirm that

we can take big strides in our progress,

Though January transfers,I never expect too much. And until we can bring in a quality midfield and Striker,our progress and development will be slow!!this present squad,despite my dream ambitions,are only good at best for top 8-11.

If the team is still off the pace..I still see the individuals...Chilwell,Gray,Maguire,Maddison,Amartey,then Soyuncu,

making this season a success.

If  Ndidi can refind that potential,and Mendy grows more into his role...I say Puel's tenure,so far is a good one,but recognise performance qualityhas to pick up,that is more important IMO than either finishing 12th or 7th...

so for every posters  critic of Puel,who jumps on every single misdemeanor...I will take the same tact....

We are at present comfortably holding 10th...and again facing Man.city in the Quarter finals of a cup competition..!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really good post @fuchsntf 

I think you are bang on when you say the following:

 

I knew one thing,when Puel was appointment,it was going to be a long hard haul of a job...

and he ( or any manager )would need 1-3 seasons.

A big name,or others put forward before Puel,many would of tried a rush job and seen us in the championship,others might of succeeded..


To completely change the way a team plays football into a style they have never played before with a team geared to something else completely is going to take time. Multiple seasons and transfer windows. And after all that's done, there is no guarantee for success. As crazy as it sounds I would look at Manchester United as an example of trying to do things immediately and messing up big time. Since Fergie left they have had three managers, spent hundreds of millions of pounds on short term solutions such as Fellani, Di Maria, Falcao, Zlatan, and yet are closer to the bottom of the table than they are to the top. And this is the most succesful club in Premier League history we are talking about. 

This doesn't give our manager a free pass. If I had paid to see the team last night I would have wanted my money back despite the win! But perspective is needed because you can't expect any manager to come in and completely change the ethos of the club so radically over night. Puel has had two transfer windows so far, during one of which we only signed a promising French player for the U23 team / to be a squad player. And he lost our most creative player for a club record transfer in the summer.

Our team is currently bang average and often times dull to watch. A far cry from three years ago when we were ripping up the league. But we are also a far cry from 10 years ago when we were in League One! The club is building for the future with promising young players, a new training academy and stadium upgrades. And if the last month has proved one thing it's that we have some of the best people behind the scenes of any club. We might have lost Vichai, but Wheelan is one of the best CEO's of any industry in the country and the club is still committed to Vichai's dream.

[NaijaFox]

4 hours ago, kingfox said:

At least we're creating more chances in games than what we saw at the back end of last season.

 

Playing through the middle has never been our best forte, it doesn't help matters when we have central midfielders who want too much time on the ball, Mendy, Ndidi and Iborra are far too slow in possession, at least Mendy has the tendency to look forward though and can actually pass a fvcking ball more than five yards.

 

Our movement always comes from wide areas though, always has done, we've always been a team who like to get crosses into the box, because of this it's no surprise to see Chilwell and Gray improving this season. Ricardo too will always make himself available in a forward position and you know what we're going to get from Albrighton.

 

But of course when we get it out wide we have limited options in the box, majority of the time it's Vardy against three defenders, he has no chance of getting on the end of anything. We never have enough runners in the box, Maddison doesn't do it, Iheanacho is lazy, the central midfielders never do it because they are defensive minded, our players just don't commit themselves. Chilwell, Ricardo, Gray and Albrighton get in good positions yet 90% of the time they can't pick anybody out because we don't have enough players making runs into the box.

 

We are far too stagnant when playing through the middle, so everything has to come from wide areas; however our passages of play usually come to nothing because our wingers are hitting crosses into no man's land.

 

On Monday night football they were analysing the Fulham game from the weekend and the main difference that Ranieri has already made, when Fulham played the ball forward they had runners committing themselves, I think it was Sessegnon who had the ball out wide and you had Mitrovic, Cairney and Schurrle all in the box anticipating the cross which they then scored from. 

 

This is something we don't do enough of, hence why we aren't creating enough, the likes of Chilwell, Ricardo and Albrighton could easily get double figures of assists this season if they had more options to pick out. 

Prove it! 

 

Seriously, last night the only time he tried anything more than a five-yard pass it nearly cost us a goal but for Ward and the crossbar! I realize that Mendy is like a new unexpected signing under the circumstances who looks even better given the debacle that has been Iborra and Silva, but quite frankly he’s about as creative as a bald spot.

[Ric Flair]

5 hours ago, Babylon said:

We aren't crap, we're average. If we were crap we wouldn't be 10 points above the relegation zone. There are issues, but over stating them doesn't do any good.

One man's crap is another man's average. I stand by my statement, crap. Theres just a lot of crap in the PL and it's not as good as it's made out to be, the money being wasted since the increase in TV revenue is frightening. I know it's a knock on effect but as a league, even the elite clubs haven't been at the same level as the best in Europe for a number of years. Are we seeing that shift again now Pep is here and Liverpool made great strides too? 

 

 

[Haywood_6]

4 hours ago, kingfox said:

At least we're creating more chances in games than what we saw at the back end of last season.

 

Playing through the middle has never been our best forte, it doesn't help matters when we have central midfielders who want too much time on the ball, Mendy, Ndidi and Iborra are far too slow in possession, at least Mendy has the tendency to look forward though and can actually pass a fvcking ball more than five yards.

 

Our movement always comes from wide areas though, always has done, we've always been a team who like to get crosses into the box, because of this it's no surprise to see Chilwell and Gray improving this season. Ricardo too will always make himself available in a forward position and you know what we're going to get from Albrighton.

 

But of course when we get it out wide we have limited options in the box, majority of the time it's Vardy against three defenders, he has no chance of getting on the end of anything. We never have enough runners in the box, Maddison doesn't do it, Iheanacho is lazy, the central midfielders never do it because they are defensive minded, our players just don't commit themselves. Chilwell, Ricardo, Gray and Albrighton get in good positions yet 90% of the time they can't pick anybody out because we don't have enough players making runs into the box.

 

We are far too stagnant when playing through the middle, so everything has to come from wide areas; however our passages of play usually come to nothing because our wingers are hitting crosses into no man's land.

 

On Monday night football they were analysing the Fulham game from the weekend and the main difference that Ranieri has already made, when Fulham played the ball forward they had runners committing themselves, I think it was Sessegnon who had the ball out wide and you had Mitrovic, Cairney and Schurrle all in the box anticipating the cross which they then scored from. 

 

This is something we don't do enough of, hence why we aren't creating enough, the likes of Chilwell, Ricardo and Albrighton could easily get double figures of assists this season if they had more options to pick out. 

He was subbed on for silva last night, tried to play a cross field ball and put Southampton in on goal  

 

But i'll forgive him because he scored his pen.

[kingfox]

21 minutes ago, NaijaFox said:

Prove it! 

 

Seriously, last night the only time he tried anything more than a five-yard pass it nearly cost us a goal but for Ward and the crossbar! I realize that Mendy is like a new unexpected signing under the circumstances who looks even better given the debacle that has been Iborra and Silva, but quite frankly he’s about as creative as a bald spot.

We are crying out for a forward thinking central midfielder that's for sure; Mendy has proved though this season that he is by far our best passer of the ball. 

 

I've said that our central midfielders are far too slow on the ball; however I wouldn't put the blame entirely on them for not being creative enough. As I posted above stats prove we get in the right areas, our biggest threat comes from wide areas, always has done tbf, we just don't create enough on goal because our players don't commit themselves, we have no target man, we have nobody who breaks into the box from midfield, you get the ball into the box and it's just Vardy in there against three defenders, the likes of Maddison and the wingers stay outside the box anticipating the ball being cleared. 

 

Look at us in recent years, we always had that Plan B to rely on whether it was Slimani, Ulloa you can go even further back to the likes of Chris Wood and Steve Howard   we don't have that anymore.

[Guest Col city fan]

36 minutes ago, NaijaFox said:

Prove it! 

 

Seriously, last night the only time he tried anything more than a five-yard pass it nearly cost us a goal but for Ward and the crossbar! I realize that Mendy is like a new unexpected signing under the circumstances who looks even better given the debacle that has been Iborra and Silva, but quite frankly he’s about as creative as a bald spot.

Mendy has been better than probably most of us thought he’d be tbf.

The problem however is clear. Mendy and Wilf are too similar. They are both destroyers. Both quick and nippy and good tacklers. Silva has been nothing other than rubbish really and Iborra is in the arse end of his career.

We need a midfield maestro. I’m not talking about Maddison cos he plays the Muzzy Izzett role and that’s fine. But Izzett was backed up by the likes of Garry Parker.. one of the best players I’ve seen in a city shirt for being able to spray the ball about.

This side needs another Parker type. Someone who is just skilful in the centre to dictate the play. Drinkwater did it but only when backed up by Kante. 

The shame is I thought this player would be Adrien Silva. But he’s been about as much use as a nun’s knockers!

I don’t think we can’t score goals but the supply remains naff to our forward players. This needs looking at imo.