Brexit - Has anybody actually changed their minds?

[Kilworthfox]

Voted leave / Still Want to leave 

[oxford blue]

10 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Indeed.

 

Has there ever been a more incompetent bunch on either side of the house?

No.

[BlueSi13]

23 hours ago, gw_leics772 said:

Thought now would be a good time to resurrect this bad boy of a thread.

 

Anybody changed their mind now?

 

I still havent. Still a leaver but now just interested to see whether we go full armageddon or with a deal.

 

Would be nice if anyone can keep up with this shit and provide completely biased interpretations of events. Preferably one from each side of the great divide as this was still the most concise summary and best gauger of public opinion.

 

I personally do not fear no deal but think the latest deal is pretty close to being sensible.

 

Just worried our remainer mp's will manage to turn this into full on remain.

 

Grab your popcorn folks.

 

My personal highlight was the ridiculous negotiation killing vote to rule out no deal,which appears to have pushed us towards the closest we have ever been to crashing out with no deal.

 

Classic. It has been a laugh though.

No voted leave and would do so again.

 

Though I'm personally pretty resigned to ending up with BRINO or no Brexit at all, one positive that has come out of this whole process is the genuine acknowledgment of how little the majority of parliament thinks of their fellow countrymen and women.  

 

Previously it was spoken about as rumour and innuendo but the last three years have truly made it crystal clear the utter contempt the majority of them have for us. 

 

For me, now the extent of the disconnect between the House of Commons/Lords and the average Briton has been exposed, it simply must not be allowed the continue.  

[Grebfromgrebland]

 

I'll never change my mind on brexit. If anyone has trouble deciding whether brexit is a good idea just take a look at who wants it and ask yourself are you one of them? Or do you want to be associated with them?

 

@MattP @MC Prussian

 

 

[Parafox]

4 minutes ago, oxford blue said:

No.

It's the current politicians, they are largely self serving, self aggrandising, self obsessed, unable to accept a democratic result. I believe the majority of politicians throughout history have been self serving to appease their own egos. Power hungry, egotistical, media driven, selfish, psychopathic individuals. That's why they are where they are. They pay lip service to their constituents. They get into politics to promote their own beliefs and agenda. They don't care about the plebs like us. They care about how they can retain any sort of power and control.

 

[Guest MattP]

22 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

 

I'll never change my mind on brexit. If anyone has trouble deciding whether brexit is a good idea just take a look at who wants it and ask yourself are you one of them? Or do you want to be associated with them?

 

@MattP @MC Prussian

 

 

1. For a start that's not even true, they don't own 80% of the UK media and the companies do pay UK tax - you see getting confused between business and individuals, if you don't live or work in the UK you don't actually pay tax here. 

 

2. That meme is about the Tories, not Brexit, so it has nothing to do with this.

 

3. Of Murdoch's four UK papers - two backed Remain and two backed Leave.  In a general election his Scottish papers back the SNP - I'll let you figure out why as it's not hard.

 

Just do some basic research, how anyone still believes political memes shared on SM is beyond me.

[WigstonWanderer]

 

[peach0000]

Voted leave and am even more convinced by it now

[ousefox]

1 hour ago, peach0000 said:

Voted leave and am even more convinced by it now

Is there a particular reason or bit of evidence that has made you think that? That's not a criticism btw - just wondering what's happened in the last 2 years that's encouraged you even more.

 

Also I think MPs are getting a little bit too much stick here. Yes I agree - the front benches are probably the worst they've ever been - same with the leaders, but the whole country was completely divided 52-48. Why is it any surprise that, in a parliamentary democracy, MPs are struggling to implement the shock result of a non-binding referendum on a result that can mean several different things?

 

MPs seem to represent every view on Brexit you can find in the UK and in most cases are best placed in terms of their expertise to represent that view.

[Stadt]

I think I’v existed this before on this very thread but voted leave, would vote to remain now.

[ozleicester]

Nope, believed it was a distraction when it was suggested and has proven to be nothing but that since.

[Soup]

Voted remain but don't care.anymore. 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

They’ve beaten the public down so much that I’m sure if there was another referendum the remainers would win, the politicians have behaved disgracefully.

[Guest MattP]

21 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

They’ve beaten the public down so much that I’m sure if there was another referendum the remainers would win, the politicians have behaved disgracefully.

If a referendum was held tomorrow I think Remain would edge it.

 

After another campaign and referendum I think Leave would win again. 

[Lionator]

35 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

They’ve beaten the public down so much that I’m sure if there was another referendum the remainers would win, the politicians have behaved disgracefully.

Or, like @ousefox said, the politicians realise that implementing brexit is a damn sight harder than selling it. If a no deal Brexit was not going to be incredibly damaging then those 'in the know' would've gone for it by now.

[peach0000]

12 hours ago, ousefox said:

Is there a particular reason or bit of evidence that has made you think that? That's not a criticism btw - just wondering what's happened in the last 2 years that's encouraged you even more.

 

Also I think MPs are getting a little bit too much stick here. Yes I agree - the front benches are probably the worst they've ever been - same with the leaders, but the whole country was completely divided 52-48. Why is it any surprise that, in a parliamentary democracy, MPs are struggling to implement the shock result of a non-binding referendum on a result that can mean several different things?

 

MPs seem to represent every view on Brexit you can find in the UK and in most cases are best placed in terms of their expertise to represent that view.

Okay so for me it was more an issue of democracy. I don't have any ideological issues against what the EU were trying to achieve just the way they go about it. The main issue that compelled me to vote leave was the role the European Commission plays in setting the agenda for the legislative process in Europe despite not being directly elected by the people of Europe. Further I felt that the way the European Commission is elected (by governments of member states) was wholly floored in the fact that the majority of EU member states will be run by centre right parties. This means that EU member states with differing ideologies in charge of their central government will likely be restricted by the centre right consensus within the European Commission. This to me goes against my values of open democracy.

 

Now what's made me more sure of the position is the lack of consequences we have seen so far. When making my choice I was apprehensive about the economic turmoil that might unfold and to me it has been a lot smoother than I expected. Therefore I'm more sure that I made the right choice in standing by my beliefs. I hope that answered your question. 

Edited 5 April 2019 by peach0000

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, peach0000 said:

Okay so for me it was more an issue of democracy. I don't have any ideological issues against what the EU were trying to achieve just the way they go about it. The main issue that compelled me to vote leave was the role the European Council plays in setting the agenda for the legislative process in Europe despite not being directly elected by the people of Europe. Further I felt that the way the European Council is elected (by governments of member states) was wholly floored in the fact that the majority of EU member states will be run by centre right parties. This means that EU member states with differing ideologies in charge of their central government will likely be restricted by the centre right consensus within the European Council. This to me goes against my values of open democracy.

 

Now what's made me more sure of the position is the lack of consequences we have seen so far. When making my choice I was apprehensive about the economic turmoil that might unfold and to me it has been a lot smoother than I expected. Therefore I'm more sure that I made the right choice in standing by my beliefs. I hope that answered your question. 

"Beliefs" being the key word here: You believe that the European Council is not directly elected, you believe it's elected by our government.  In reality the Council is made up of the directly elected heads of each member state. At every general election you're voting directly for Britain's representative on the Council. I wonder how many more made their decision to vote leave on similarly flawed reasoning.

[Lionator]

7 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

Okay so for me it was more an issue of democracy. I don't have any ideological issues against what the EU were trying to achieve just the way they go about it. The main issue that compelled me to vote leave was the role the European Council plays in setting the agenda for the legislative process in Europe despite not being directly elected by the people of Europe. Further I felt that the way the European Council is elected (by governments of member states) was wholly floored in the fact that the majority of EU member states will be run by centre right parties. This means that EU member states with differing ideologies in charge of their central government will likely be restricted by the centre right consensus within the European Council. This to me goes against my values of open democracy.

 

Now what's made me more sure of the position is the lack of consequences we have seen so far. When making my choice I was apprehensive about the economic turmoil that might unfold and to me it has been a lot smoother than I expected. Therefore I'm more sure that I made the right choice in standing by my beliefs. I hope that answered your question. 

This is a good answer, and I'm a remoaner! 

[Izzy]

I was on the fence at the referendum but eventually thought "better the devil you know" so voted Remain.

 

As soon as the result came in I was firmly behind leaving in the best way possible, as that was what the majority decided and we should honour it.

 

Three years on and I'm more confused now than I was when I voted. The EU haven't exactly persuaded me that being part of their club is a good thing, and the Leavers haven't convinced me that leaving is a good thing either. 

 

I just want what's best for my family and the country and for those in charge to get the fvck on with it. I'm really passed caring now and whatever the outcome is, we'll just have to play the cards we're dealt.

 

P.S. The whole process has disengaged me even further away from politics and I'm losing trust and faith in the whole system.

[peach0000]

24 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

"Beliefs" being the key word here: You believe that the European Council is not directly elected, you believe it's elected by our government.  In reality the Council is made up of the directly elected heads of each member state. At every general election you're voting directly for Britain's representative on the Council. I wonder how many more made their decision to vote leave on similarly flawed reasoning.

You are totally right, my argument was completely flawed, a slip of the mind lead me to write European Council rather than commission. It's been corrected now though. 

[lgfualol]

To still have enough faith in the UK government to want to leave after 2 years of them shitting the bed, I find that pretty impressive. 

[stripeyfox]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I was on the fence at the referendum but eventually thought "better the devil you know" so voted Remain.

 

As soon as the result came in I was firmly behind leaving in the best way possible, as that was what the majority decided and we should honour it.

 

Three years on and I'm more confused now than I was when I voted. The EU haven't exactly persuaded me that being part of their club is a good thing, and the Leavers haven't convinced me that leaving is a good thing either. 

 

I just want what's best for my family and the country and for those in charge to get the fvck on with it. I'm really passed caring now and whatever the outcome is, we'll just have to play the cards we're dealt.

 

P.S. The whole process has disengaged me even further away from politics and I'm losing trust and faith in the whole system.

This is more or less where I am. Before the referendum I was on the fence. But the more I spoke to people I found myself alighning more with Remainers than Leavers and so Remain was my choice. Was happy with my choice and much of what I have seen online since from Leavers is quite nasty, xenophobic crap which probably has hardened my stance.

 

But having said all that, the decision was made to Leave and it's hard to comprehend that nearly three years down the track we basically haven't got a clue what is going on.

 

And, since the risk of a hard brexit seems to be diminishing, we're probably going to end up with a solution which pleases nobody on either side!
 

[leicesterlad1989]

47 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

This is more or less where I am. Before the referendum I was on the fence. But the more I spoke to people I found myself alighning more with Remainers than Leavers and so Remain was my choice. Was happy with my choice and much of what I have seen online since from Leavers is quite nasty, xenophobic crap which probably has hardened my stance.

 

But having said all that, the decision was made to Leave and it's hard to comprehend that nearly three years down the track we basically haven't got a clue what is going on.

 

And, since the risk of a hard brexit seems to be diminishing, we're probably going to end up with a solution which pleases nobody on either side!
 

 

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

I was on the fence at the referendum but eventually thought "better the devil you know" so voted Remain.

 

As soon as the result came in I was firmly behind leaving in the best way possible, as that was what the majority decided and we should honour it.

 

Three years on and I'm more confused now than I was when I voted. The EU haven't exactly persuaded me that being part of their club is a good thing, and the Leavers haven't convinced me that leaving is a good thing either. 

 

I just want what's best for my family and the country and for those in charge to get the fvck on with it. I'm really passed caring now and whatever the outcome is, we'll just have to play the cards we're dealt.

 

P.S. The whole process has disengaged me even further away from politics and I'm losing trust and faith in the whole system.

Pretty much what you have both posted, best describes how I feel.

 

I'd still vote remain should there be another referendum, purely due to the nature of my work but I am sick to death of the whole thing.

 

I now feel like I am part of a side, wherein you are either a "remainer" or a "brexiteer." I could have used any number of names to describe the two sides. Both sides on the whole are pathetic. Some of the things on social media in particular have made me cringe. The constant slagging off of peoples views. BREXIT MEANS BREXIT or if you voted leave you are a racist etc etc. Absolutely sick of it. People are that engrossed in an on going argument over the result of the referendum, rather than actually discussing solutions or where we move forward.

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, stripeyfox said:

This is more or less where I am. Before the referendum I was on the fence. But the more I spoke to people I found myself alighning more with Remainers than Leavers and so Remain was my choice. Was happy with my choice and much of what I have seen online since from Leavers is quite nasty, xenophobic crap which probably has hardened my stance.

 

But having said all that, the decision was made to Leave and it's hard to comprehend that nearly three years down the track we basically haven't got a clue what is going on.

 

And, since the risk of a hard brexit seems to be diminishing, we're probably going to end up with a solution which pleases nobody on either side!
 

While this is true, it's the most rational option with regards to preserving democracy (what's that?) yet protecting jobs and rights of British and European people. 

[Carl the Llama]

4 hours ago, peach0000 said:

You are totally right, my argument was completely flawed, a slip of the mind lead me to write European Council rather than commission. It's been corrected now though. 

Fair enough but presuming you don't mean the whole commission (that would be a bit like complaining that we don't elect civil servants to the home office), just those with the job title of Commissioner, then I'd retort that the selection process and office length make it a whole lot more democratic than one of our key legislative bodies, namely the HOL.