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Cincinnati Fox

Time for Puel to go

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8 minutes ago, Sionnach gorm said:

You can’t always blame a manager for things going badly.  Sometimes it’s the players.  I believe in this case we have a malaise at the team.  Ride it through.  Puel is a decent manager and we’ll overcome this also.

Oh my days. Based on what evidence? You're deluded.

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27 minutes ago, Fosse93 said:

I think the majority of 'Puel In' supporters don't actually go to many games.

 

On paper he's great, but the reality is people are spending their hard earned money week in, week out, to see us put in performance after performance of tepid, uninspiring football.

 

Saturday afternoons used to be an outlet for me, forget all the shit that's happened during the week, back at home. Get down the footy with your mates, have a few jars and enjoy the match.

 

Saturday afternoons are just another source of frustration now, unfortunately.

Hard to argue with that. I was at the game yesterday and when you’re freezing your nads off and can’t feel your feet it’s very hard to find any positivity whilst watching that. I live in London so it wasn’t even that bad for me. I feel for the Leicester faithful after that game.  

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12 minutes ago, Mayofox said:

For the first time ever, I'm keener to watch other teams, rather than us, and that's not right. I enjoy watching Man City toy with the opposition, I know the Liverpool Man U match will be entertaining. By contrast, when I went to the pub to watch the Spurs match, it felt like more a sense of duty, and there turned out to be so little to get excited about.   You can say, yes we won't go down, we could somehow progress in the Cup, but I long for the days when you quickened your pace as you got near the ground, really excited for the match to start.

Completely agree with this.  I saw N'didi hit a left foot shot about 500 yards wide (for the 2000th time in a row) in the first 5 minutes, then misplace 3 passes and I left the room! Every game is following a similar routine at the moment.  

 

No cutting edge

Creating few chances

Possession without any creativity

Players who aren't good at passing being told to pass

Not getting players into the box

Not threatening at all from corners or set pieces

Not closing down quick enough at the edge of the box (2 goals in 2 games from this position)

Lacklustre start to matches (takes us 45 minutes to realise we need to score in order to win a game)

Poor tempo/pressing

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, moseeds said:

Puel should have been relieved of duty in summer. There's a real danger the style of football will put off potential recruits over summer and allow existing players to have their heads turned. The style of football is counter to the prevailing premier League style of fast attacking pressing games which entertain and yield excitement. The manager needs to be replaced but only when a suitable candidate has been identified.

In January of this year I posted about this very subject and was pilloried by the masses on here and have been ever since.

His tactics are at best outdated, and I am frankly staggered how long it’s taken for the penny to drop with our fans.

 

The whole team has had the energy and life sucked out of it, to the point that saddens me. Such a waste of time operating a terrible style of play that has yielded an average of 1.13 pts per game in 42 games. 

 

Now that people see the light, when Puel does go, I expect to be carried into the stadium atop the shoulders of said masses and lauded for my insight.

 

Failing that I await the apologies that Im sure will be forthcoming from you Puel Iners; for being so naive about the game yet so sure of Claude’s abilities to make it work here.

 

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I understand that there has been a lot of changes to the team with the introduction of youth, the shifting of the old guard and a new system of playing. Puel has done these things reasonably well and cannot be criticised too much in this area.

 

However there is a huge inconsistency to his tactical decisions from the start of games, injuries aside he makes a lot of needless changes which is affecting players form and confidence. What I really cant abide by is the seeming lack of desire and motivation of the players on the pitch to try and win a football game. This comes under the managers remit and he is not doing a good enough job keeping the players on job. Yes there has been a big tragedy but that should have been used to light a fire under the players, they should still be busting a gut in honor of the chairman but instead they are wimpering around the pitch.

 

For this i’m in the Puel out camp. For all the good he does, he really can’t fire this group up to win a football game or even at least look like they are trying for a full 90 minutes when all the ingredients are there. 

 

We’ve already lost 2 on the bounce, if we end up going on a losing run and the heads drop even further we are in big trouble wether some people would like to admit it or not.

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I’m pretty sure the West Ham game would have been the trigger for a lot of soul searching about performances under Puel but other events took the focus elsewhere. 

Someone said it earlier but if the players don’t fit the desired system tweak it. Don’t flog them in the hope it eventually works. 

 

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49 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

In January of this year I posted about this very subject and was pilloried by the masses on here and have been ever since.

His tactics are at best outdated, and I am frankly staggered how long it’s taken for the penny to drop with our fans.

 

The whole team has had the energy and life sucked out of it, to the point that saddens me. Such a waste of time operating a terrible style of play that has yielded an average of 1.13 pts per game in 42 games. 

 

Now that people see the light, when Puel does go, I expect to be carried into the stadium atop the shoulders of said masses and lauded for my insight.

 

Failing that I await the apologies that Im sure will be forthcoming from you Puel Iners; for being so naive about the game yet so sure of Claude’s abilities to make it work here.

 

Yeah but you know how fickle people are on this forum, we might bore Man City to death and scrape and 0-0 and all of a sudden the puel inners will be accusing you of being insane

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1 hour ago, Dames said:

I understand that there has been a lot of changes to the team with the introduction of youth, the shifting of the old guard and a new system of playing. Puel has done these things reasonably well and cannot be criticised too much in this area.

 

However there is a huge inconsistency to his tactical decisions from the start of games, injuries aside he makes a lot of needless changes which is affecting players form and confidence. What I really cant abide by is the seeming lack of desire and motivation of the players on the pitch to try and win a football game. This comes under the managers remit and he is not doing a good enough job keeping the players on job. Yes there has been a big tragedy but that should have been used to light a fire under the players, they should still be busting a gut in honor of the chairman but instead they are wimpering around the pitch.

 

For this i’m in the Puel out camp. For all the good he does, he really can’t fire this group up to win a football game or even at least look like they are trying for a full 90 minutes when all the ingredients are there. 

 

We’ve already lost 2 on the bounce, if we end up going on a losing run and the heads drop even further we are in big trouble wether some people would like to admit it or not.

Very well said.

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3 hours ago, FilbertFrog said:

I thought they tried hard yesterday it’s just that some of them aren’t very good , losing 3-0 or 4-0 would make your point valid for me but over all players tried they just didn’t look good enough , we should have scored but didn’t 

They didn’t look good enough?

well that’s quite worrying against a team that had one win in 11 and was missing their best player.

 

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Any progress in terms of points is very hard to see.

 

We have 4 pts less than this point last season, OK Mahrez is a massive loss and probably easily accounts for those lost points.

But we should also remember the awful start we made last season and still found ourselves in a better position after 17 games.

 

Personally don't see any evidence of progress, but I trust those running the club to make an assessment of the entire situation and get it right.

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6 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

They didn’t look good enough?

well that’s quite worrying against a team that had one win in 11 and was missing their best player.

 

They are in a false position and always rally , don’t get me wrong it wasn’t pretty but to claim the players have stopped playing for the Manager is just not accurate 

 

the stats yesterday showed that 

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Only time the team attacks is when we are losing.

He has the highest squad wage bill of any Leicester manager ever.

The team are shit to watch, for every glimmer of hope of passing football - there is game after game of negative dull football.

Lots of sideways passing in our own half.

Cant believe how many passes were kicked out of touch yesterday and misplaced given they have had a year of his coaching.

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We just aren t good enough,all our expectations,and potential of the players are not materialising

 

We picked up Maddison,who was also misfiring yesterday!!! 

We had to give The new buys,Silva and Iborra their chance!!!  The owners would of told Puel, he had no choice!!!

Ndidi was our midfield,first name on gameday selection!!! He is really struggling

 

We were never going to invest in any other midfield player,we had already put the money on the table...

 

Nearly every poster believed after 3-4 games Mendy and Amartey,had re-kindled their 1st team careers

We had potentially in Nacho/Gray players who would/should up their games with Shinjii in the background....I

Mr reliable... Vardy would pick up any scraps of decent chances.I

big Injuries,with more than 1-2 game outage,or not really game-fit!!

 

Look again ,and read those facts...

Any Manager would be struggling!!!  Not one of those issues mentioned,has manifested into any type of translation or success.

Plus after so many fail-buys,The owners will not have given any manager a large budget/if any. to invest in any proven high cost player!!

That as not allowed/enabled Puels selections to find any consistency...

If 5-7 players,mainly front 6 were showing any kind of aptitude to deliver consistent PL discipline,and individual performances,

I would also (though would find it hard).  Join the Puel/or any other manager....out brigade.

 

It's hard to accept,but we have no engine room,no fire power,we have the odd spark,that then promptly fizzles out!!!

The fight and spirit,is not even there...That comes only from within the players.Yesterday we saw a snippet of pain and caring,when

those nearly chances,went begging.Enough frustration shown from the players...

We have never really been buried in games,we have lost many points,quite a few to different single player errors.!!

our defence has a unit has improved,and IMO as not been the issue,when losing games or points.

 

Another point to be taken into consideration,with the major character of our players,since the title win...

Ranieri,then Shakespeare,now Puel have shown their frustration,even anger on the touchline,when the team sits back and

fail to take advantage of moving the ball quickly with pace,when the openings have presented themselves....I

Plus our basic on the ball discipline and control have abysmally been missing,when even that is not being initiated during the game,

then manager and coaching staff can't be made answerable...We are now over 3 season been missing a gameday "boss"

When we won the title we didn't need one,every player the unit pulled together,and covered together!!!

The great Escape seen Huth and Cambiasso,lead from the front!!!

IMHO we need a Schmeichel type,but as an outfield player.

 

I am not any better than the Puel-out brigade,they have excellent and solid arguments!!!

But...my "Buts"  are based mainly on the above mentioned points,and our squad isn't has good as some will have us believe.

we can't force the dream when the quality is missing,we can't be so naive,by demeaning the opposition,and be arrogant to

believe some teams are their for the taking,and we are expected even entitled to win those games....Sorry that is pathetic!!!

 

Looking at the teams around us....Their youth players are clicking,and giving decent performances..our  major mainstays arent!!!

Puel can only work with what he's got,and what they are bringing to the table...at the moment,not one of the front 6 are grabbing

their chance...If we had the rescources, players like Maddison,Ndidi,even Vardy would need to prove their trust in selection!!!

they have become a need,that shouldn't be there!!!

If we took on a new manager,we wouldn't have the funds to support him...he would have the same problem...

 

We ARE  not has good as some fans would have us be. The fail-buys have ruined our chance to show we can compete for top 8-6.

The rebuild is in a worse situation as imagined,a Nacho top form and success,would of still papered over the cracks...,but would of released

a lot of pressure and put us still below 6th,though giving us more optimisum.

 

The only thought of a manager change,from my perspective,would be a catastrophic next 5 game run,and maybe only Maybe

"a change is better than a rest" perspective!! Taking the belief it would change our fourtunes....

but then!!! Other consequences will be put on the table...Nobody would of been proven right,the nonsense posts from last and this season,

based on Puel s accents, demeanour,and Southampton tenure just empty vessels.

more importantly our present  squad and team potential won't change!!

 

again!!   Those sums of fail-buys and unexpected  mis-hits on believed quality especially  in Nacho ,Gray Iborra and Silva,together ,

Puel/any manager is left with too many blanks...and poor performing alternatives....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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All right to get him gone but replace him with who and what remit will they have and how much time and money will they be given. If we have someone lined up all well and good but there are plenty of bang average managers out there, Hughes Pardew, Moyes etc. We are also a couple of weeks from a transfer window so change him and what time is there to replace what we have now? 12 months ago people wanted Simpson gone we did little in the Jan window but Ricardo looks worth the wait. Maddison looks  so promising with more to come and we have Harvey Barnes and Benkovitch to come in and Soyuncu to settle in, before you challenge for the top 6 you need to make sure your good enough for the top 10 and we are around that mark just need a little bit more. What you want and what you get are very different 

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I saw a tweet by @UpTheLeagueFox who took an extract for a Southampton fan who writes a blog.

 

I managed to find the whole post.

 

Quote

Sunday, May 28, 2017

Claude Puel - Should He Stay or Should He Go?

Koeman leaves for the Everton millions.  OK – who are we getting…?

Frank de Boer – promising – great player – high profile… Nope.

Manuel Pellegrini – class and charisma – high profile…. Nope.

Claude Puel – who?  Oh, ok then... In Les we trust etc

 
Claude came in after the successful Ronald Koeman left for Everton and immediately changed the whole ethos of the playing side of the club suddenly we went from every team playing a 4-2-3-1 formation with a pressing game to playing the diamond midfield where we sat back and built up slow.  One reason that you don't change the ethos is because you need a different type of player to play any new system and we didn't have the players to play the diamond midfield.  Another reason is if the previous system had proved successful.  This change was on top of there being a European Championships so there was even less time for the new manager to get his ideas across in the summer.

 
So, we started sluggishly and had two very boring home draws against Watford and against Sunderland. In the Sunderland game in particular we were very lucky to get a point with the goalkeeper falling over a J-Rod shot with five minutes to go. He persisted with this formation at the start of the season and we had Charlie Austin trying to cover up and down the left wing which isn’t his game at all and Nathan Redmond totally failing to be the new Thierry Henry at the point of the diamond.  This was the first time I had the nagging feeling that things we’re going to be a bit bumpy.

 
We had couple of wins at home against poor sides like Middlesbrough and Swansea which made things look ok but on the flip side of that, we would throw away games at Hull and Burnley with our lack of ambition once behind.  Half an hour to score and we don't even manage a shot on target nor ever give the impression that we were actually going for it.  In the odd game we looked good like West Ham away when we won 3-0 playing some really good slick football with good running off the ball.
 
Then the European games started and Claude went into rotation mode and with it, any pattern and understandings between players went out the window.  Rotation mode made it seem like he planned the whole thing out on the spreadsheet in advance and it wasn't so much mix and match but it was an A Team and a B team. At the weekends we played the first team (Cedric, Jose, Bertrand with Virgil) and in Europe we more or less played the B team (Cuco, Maya, McQueen with Virgil), with only really Virgil and Oriol Romeu being fixtures in both line-ups. Claude’s CV boasted a lot of European experience which was the main justification from Les Reed for taking on someone who was new to English football and a virtual unknown on these shores. This European expertise brought us to a good position in the group after four games and a famous win against and admittedly declining Inter Milan. We had got a hard earned 0-0 against Hapoel Be’er Sheva and suffered a very unlucky 1-0 defeat in Milan when the Italians scored with their only shot on target after we had missed literally shit loads. The home form in Europe was good having dispatched a piss poor Sparta Prague side three nil and as mentioned, beating Milan. Seven points from four games and we only needed one win from the final two games to get through.

 
It was in the away match at Sparta Prague where Claude’s truly negative mindset first came to the fore. As per the spreadsheet he picked what was basically a reserve side and we lost in one of the worst performances I have ever seen. As the season went on, I used the phrase ‘one of the worst performances I've ever seen’ quite often.  We could have gone for it in that game, got qualified and rested everyone in the last game… but no.  Be’er Sheva at home and a 0-0 draw would've got us through.  The fact that we could have got through with a 0-0 was a dangerous thing and we played for it, committing no bodies forward and sure as shit, Hapoel predictably scored with their first shot on target meaning that we had 10 minutes to score 2 goals. It was only then that Virgil took it upon itself to go and play as a striker and he scored to make it 1-1 but too little too late. The great European master tactician had totally ****ed it up. I can't imagine that his next meeting with Les Reed was a particularly pleasant one.

 
Undeterred, Claude got us through to a Wembley final, masterminding a quarter final win at The Emirates when we played more first teamers than Arsenal and did the business 2-0.  Then a two legged semi against a Mané-less Liverpool and we defended deep and well and nicked both legs 1-0.  Tactical masterclass, executed to perfection.  Jurgen Klopp and the ex-Saints at Anfield put back in their boxes.  Brilliant.

 
In between the semi-finals, Virgil had got injured and José Fonte had followed the money so we were forced to play your Yoshida and Stephens as the central defenders and after shocking home game against West Ham we did actually change to the formation we've been using for the last three years with two holding midfielders. We had a bit of success with that including a very good performance at Wembley when we should have won but ultimately, defensive frailties cost us.  The feel-good factor was there though – the fans had a fantastic day and the team and Claude did us proud.  The trouble was just beginning though.

 
As soon as Claude felt that the central defenders were more solid, he ditched the 4-2-3-1 and we went back to the 4-3-3, the one-striker-in-the box-if-we're-lucky formation. We didn't have much to play for post Wembley so it was down to the manager to get the most out of the players he had and Claude spectacularly failed, judging by the number of completely half-assed boring performances we put in.  We didn’t ever look like getting sucked into a relegation battle but there were very few points between 8th and 16th and we could have finished anywhere in that range.  We mulled along, getting the odd win against crap sides like Sunderland and Watford but then it tailed off again. 

 
Despite all this, I was still in favour of Claude staying because of the stability of having a manager for the second season would bring but then we played Hull City at home.  Hull were a team who hardly had a point away from home all season. They set up for a draw, they didn't attack at all and we did absolutely **** all. We still only played with the one upfront so on 60 minutes Claude took Gabbiadini off and put Shane Long on, a like for like change that would achieve absolutely nothing. If ever there was a game to put two strikers on then that was it. The fact that we missed a penalty in the last minute meant that his lack of bravery and was not hidden and the cracks were not papered over. It's worth pointing out that that penalty was not won by flooding the opposition box and putting them under ridiculous pressure, it was won by one of the Hull players having a complete meltdown and throwing someone over for no reason at all.

 
Two wins in the last eight games against the beach bound West Brom team and an already relegated diabolical bag of shite from Middlesbrough does not make things any better and nor does the fact that we finished eighth, top of the absolutely shite division within the Premier League. We played a lot of good sides at the end but in Koeman’s last season we picked up points against all of the big clubs.  This this season, we didn't even have a go. We turned up with no plan whatsoever in any of the matches and when you tot it up over the season, we came out of 12 games against the top six with a very poor three points, from two 0-0’s against Liverpool and a 0-0 against United. 

 
And so we arrived at the last game of the season against Stoke when there was nothing riding on the game whatsoever and there was no reason to not go for it but what do we do, same as usual, same selection, same tactics and we got the same result. No goals. The final tactical substitution of the season, 1-0 down, 10 to go, was to take off our best to set piece taker and replace him with a full-back in midfield. I ****ing give up - The season had ended with 5 home games in which we failed to score in.

 
It is often said that a team will mimic the personality of its manager and that's been the case with us this season. We are an overly cautious, boring team with no inspiration whatsoever and we are scared. How is the team going to function well if it scared of expressing itself? There was barely a plan A in most of the games aside from play deep, pass it around sideways and backwards work it out to the wings and then cross it. The trouble was that there was only ever one player in the box with three cautious midfielders not getting in to help.   

 
I'm convinced that the whole season was run off a spreadsheet and there was absolutely no dynamism in any decisions that were made depending on the state of the game or what was required at that time. If something wasn't working then we just carried on and exactly the same fashion in the hope that it would change and of course, it hardly ever did.  For example, we have done virtually the whole season without having two strikers playing as strikers. Even in the early-season diamond formation that was supposed to have two strikers upfront, they usually played wide, so at times it looked like we had no strikers at all and six midfielders.

 
There are a few things that have happened this season that have not been Claude’s fault and could be used as mitigating circumstances. Whoever decided that Long, Austin and J-Rod were going to score as many goals as Pellé and Mané managed last season wants shooting. J-Rod and Austin always have injury problems and Long had just had the season of his life which was totally out of character so it was unlikely to happen again.  We also had Jose Fonte behaving like a dickhead and we had the unfortunate injury to Virgil which the board failed to address in the January transfer window. They eventually addressed both the striker and defender issues with the signings of Gabbiadini in the window and Caceres just afterwards at not inconsiderable expense but Claude chose to use the 68 cap Uruguay international once, presumably because he wasn’t on the ‘End of January’ spreadsheet.  This was ok though because the defence was in top form.  That’s a lie.

 
There have been too many stories about the players clashing with the manager for none of it to be true. There have been visible shows of dissent in matches from Shane Long, Pierre Højbjerg, James Ward-Prowse, Nathan Redmond and Ryan Bertrand. What's gone on on the training ground is anyone's guess. Then we had the bizarre episode of Ralph Krueger addressing players before the Everton away game which turned out to be Jose Fonte's last game. We had the Tadic issue - he was repeatedly being subbed and rightly so, he moaned int he media and from then on he was hardly ever subbed even though his form got worse - weak management there.  Some players have undoubtably improved under the manager like Romeu and Yoshida and it's been good to see players like McQueen, Sims and Stephens given the chance.

 
However, regardless of where we finish in the league and the positives and mitigating factors, I have grown increasingly tired of a piss boring style of football, players being picked time and time again when they are not performing, players getting dropped having played well and the complete lack of dynamism in the decision-making. I also do not think that Claude has it within himself to change and feel that even he if he had the best squad of players in the world, the football would still be incredibly boring.  I find it amazing that he had a reputation for attacking football in France. All I can do is judge him on what I’ve seen this season.

 
Then there’s the interviews.  Jesus H. Christ.  Now, Claude’s English is better than my French but I think that I’d manage to be more interesting and engaging than Claude was.  ‘Oportuniteeee’ and ‘Qualiteeee’ 25 times.  Get a translator and then at least everyone would have some idea what was going through your head.  It was Jan Poortvliet all over again with his ‘we know how to make a goal’ after yet another 0 in the goals-for column.  Even Jan didn’t manage 5 home games without scoring and he had David McGoaldrought up front.

 
I think he deserves to go and I think he will.  In these days of football clubs being big business, I wonder what the season-ticket take up is for next season. You will of course have your fans who will buy regardless of how the team plays but like them or not, there are a load of fans who just want to be entertained and will not be renewing based on what they’ve seen this year.  The run to the Cup Final was fantastic and a great day was had by all.  When the dust settles on this, Claude’s record will say 8th in the League and the EFL Cup Final.  It’s not like he’s failed and he’ll get a good job next (St.Etienne has been rumoured already) and his season in English football will look ok on his CV.  The question that the board have to answer is whether they think he’ll improve next season or will it fall away further?  There is a very small margin between us finishing 8th and having a relegation battle.  I feel that next year with Claude in charge, we’d struggle near the bottom, even though the league outside the top 7 is very poor.

 
The bottom line is (and this is the way you should judge any manager) – did he get the best out of the resources at his disposal?  I’m afraid there’s only one answer to that one for me and it's no.  

 

It's almost a carbon copy.

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Even the Southampton blogger made the qualiteeee 'jokes' (Not even sure anyone is making a joke tbh, simply quoting) for anyone offended by it.

 

No intensiteee jokes though, that a shame.

 

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