Stadt Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 I’m starting to get a bit hysterical about VAR but could you imagine them ever scrapping it? No chance. It’s here to stay despite how bad it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtmcfly Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Stadt said: I’m starting to get a bit hysterical about VAR but could you imagine them ever scrapping it? No chance. It’s here to stay despite how bad it is. I think it works well when the decisions required are of the empirical kind e.g. offsides, balls over the goal line, hand balls leading up to goals. I understand some of the related rules are questionable, but in terms of its role in make sure the rules are followed (which is the point of VAR) I haven't seen many errors. Where is has failed is when the empirical gives way to opinions of 'intent', where the only aid is slow motion repeats. At this point your left with experts on rules (but crucially, not on actually playing football), erring far too much on the side of sticking with the original decision. No doubt this is exacerbated by the 'blue on blue' nature of colleages not wanting to criticise each other. Perhaps this specific area is one where ex-officials/players could be involved. Or perhaps decisions of this kind should (for a season at least) be removed from being covered by VAR. The sport that has done it best, cricket, has gone for the latter approach. It has pretty much limited its decisions to the former, empirical kind. Apart from the judging rare occurrences of 'did a caught ball hit hand/or ground first', the decisions are all made using technology which provides binary outcomes - did the ball touch the bat, would it have carried on to hit the wicket. As such, 'opinion' comes into it very little - third man umpiring could pretty much be done by AI. This seems to me to be more a function of the game itself than a specific decision by e.g. the ICC. What they have done well is gradually introduce (and update!) the various bits of technology used to help make the decisions. Edited 10 July 2020 by turtmcfly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 1 hour ago, Fox92 said: All refs are equally as bad. We don't have a standout referee anymore. Clattenburg was the best and he left. Oliver was then the best for me but now he's just as bad. Moss isn't the worse though; Craig Pawson and Lee Mason are much worse. Graeme Scott, who did Var for the Villa game yesterday, is the one to blame not Moss. He should have overruled. It's for Man Utd though so they dare not. Do Villa get a penalty for that at Old Trafford? No way. We all know there is big team bias, but why? Is it the media speculation that follows? Or is there genuine corruption to push these teams into the Champions league for revenue purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 1 minute ago, Ollie93 said: We all know there is big team bias, but why? Is it the media speculation that follows? Or is there genuine corruption to push these teams into the Champions league for revenue purposes? Do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 You think there isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 18 minutes ago, Ollie93 said: We all know there is big team bias, but why? Is it the media speculation that follows? Or is there genuine corruption to push these teams into the Champions league for revenue purposes? I don't know. Have they always favoured the big teams? I know Fergie used to absolutely harass them and the whole "Fergie time" thing. They probably always want the big clubs to participate in the Champions League but that goes in every Country surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 15 minutes ago, Fox92 said: I don't know. Have they always favoured the big teams? I know Fergie used to absolutely harass them and the whole "Fergie time" thing. They probably always want the big clubs to participate in the Champions League but that goes in every Country surely. I dont know the stats, but I'd hazard a guess that the "big 6" get more going for them than against them, haven't Man U just equalled the tally for most penalties awarded? I think our title season was up there tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 I suppose the one certainty left this season is Norwich have Norfolk in chance of staying up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywood_6 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 It's not beyond Wilder and Sheff United to take points from Chelsea tomorrow, there is mistakes in that defence for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Fox Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, orangecity23 said: Jon Moss is a very strange referee. The first game I remember him reffing was our 2-2 draw with Forest at the City Ground, and hands down, might be the worst refereeing performance in the history of football. We were 2-0 up, and in the space of a few minutes, Moss set about completely changing the game. He gave a handball penalty against Matt Mills, when Mills was on the floor, trying to get up, with his hand pushing himself off the ground, when a Forest player kicked the ball against his armthat was supporting his body weight. No deliberate motion towards the ball, no way for the defender to avoid it. He booked Kasper for complaining about his appalling decision, and after they scored, Forest were trying to pick the ball up and carry it back to the half way line. Kasper picked it up and kicked it there himself. Moss booked him again and sent him off - for "timewasting" - when a) It was our kick off b) He kicked the ball to exactly where it needed to be. To top it off, when the match reports came out in the media, they tried to hand wave it away claiming he'd kicked it into the crowd, clearly showing they hadn't even watched the game at all. Over the years, Moss has pulled performances like that game and last night out of the bag again and again, so you'd be forgiven for thinking he has no idea what he's doing, but then he has games like our game vs Palace last week where nothing out of the ordinary happens and he's perfectly fine. Then you'll get a game like Us Vs West Ham in the title winning season, where he basically does everything within his power to try to **** up the title race. It's like he sets out to some games and says, "tonights going to be all about me". It says a lot about PGMOL and the FA that they allow him to do this, and seem to regard him as one of their best officials, when he has a history of giving completely inexplicable calls and ruining matches. I remember that Forest game, and I thought he did kick it into the crowd behind the goal. I’m probably wrong as it was ages ago. Edit, I was there by the way. Still can’t fully remember what happened Edited 10 July 2020 by Leeds Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanolegend1989 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 5 hours ago, SuperMike said: Not sure about us, but Wolves and, most notably, Sheff U have had some abysmal decisions made against them. I'm afraid we can't blame VAR for our slide out of CL places - our dire form since December has seen to that!! Sheffield Utd have had 2 huge amounts of luck given for them. The hand balls against Declan Rice and Lucas Moura we’re both absolutely shambolic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadt Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 19 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said: Sheffield Utd have had 2 huge amounts of luck given for them. The hand balls against Declan Rice and Lucas Moura we’re both absolutely shambolic. They also had the opposition keeper holding the ball about a foot behind the line and leaning against the side netting not given as a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 17 hours ago, Hammo said: Good point, but while as individual events they are more likely to happen than not, for all four to go our way would be pretty miraculous. Wonder what the accumulator odds would be? 5000-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangecity23 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 41 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said: I remember that Forest game, and I thought he did kick it into the crowd behind the goal. I’m probably wrong as it was ages ago. Edit, I was there by the way. Still can’t fully remember what happened Here we go, still on Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 52 minutes ago, Haywood_6 said: It's not beyond Wilder and Sheff United to take points from Chelsea tomorrow, there is mistakes in that defence for sure. I want Sheffutd to win,it would Take Chelsea out of the equation...if we then Beat Bournemouth and Sheff utd. & draw our last 2... If Chelsea win we win,the agony lasts longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 (edited) So I’ve done a table predictor. For us is predicted, wins against Bournemouth, Sheffield United. Draw V Spurs and a loss against United. For United, I’ve predicted wins against all teams bar Southampton. I really fancy them to trip them up. Chelsea I’ve put for them to lose to Liverpool slip up against Sheffield, and draw to Wolves. Chelsea have a tough run out, and they also have a cup to distract them. Sheffield United and Wolves are two tough games for them and I can see then dropping points there. Liverpool I think will now want to win every game, as they will want to finish with maximum points from this position. So, if things go to plan and we win our next two, we stand a really strong chance of sealing 4th. That’s what we need to aim for really. This weekend is again important. Chelsea will be the ones to drop out, at this stage I’m happy to agree I think this is what will happen. Edited 10 July 2020 by Pliskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadt Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 19 minutes ago, pmcla26 said: It works well abroad, just seems we’ve got idiots putting it in to practice here. It’s unpopular abroad too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arriba Los Zorros Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 37 minutes ago, Pliskin said: So I’ve done a table predictor. For us is predicted, wins against Bournemouth, Sheffield United. Draw V Spurs and a loss against United. For United, I’ve predicted wins against all teams bar Southampton. I really fancy them to trip them up. Chelsea I’ve put for them to lose to Liverpool slip up against Sheffield, and draw to Wolves. Chelsea have a tough run out, and they also have a cup to distract them. Sheffield United and Wolves are two tough games for them and I can see then dropping points there. Liverpool I think will now want to win every game, as they will want to finish with maximum points from this position. So, if things go to plan and we win our next two, we stand a really strong chance of sealing 4th. That’s what we need to aim for really. This weekend is again important. Chelsea will be the ones to drop out, at this stage I’m happy to agree I think this is what will happen. This is what I got although was a little pessimistic about us, Chelsea too though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 Yeah I'd probably agree it's less shit abroad than here, but it's still pretty shit on the whole. It won't go away though, depressingly, as this is apparently progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody2028 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc81 Posted 10 July 2020 Share Posted 10 July 2020 (edited) They need to get a VAR system whereby a smallish team make all the decisions (say 10). They could be based in one place and referrals could be made to them from each game across the games on at the same time in the day. There could be enough in the team to ensure at worst, ifall games had a var referral at one time they all could take one. All VAR decisions could be categorised by an independent person overseeing all decisions. They could be rated say 1-10. The whole team could review each Monday all the poor VAR decisions (say 3 or below) and discuss what went wrong, and all the very good VAR decisions (say 7 or above) and say what went well. By having the same team, one person standardising and all constantly reviewing and discussing decisions- at the very least we could start to get a system whereby decisions became more and more consistent. They could even hold the VAR team to account, and where they kept making poor decisions replace them. Again, overtime making things more consistent. It seems at the minute that the only thing VAR does is highlight the wild inconsistencies that seem to exist in refereeing. Edited 10 July 2020 by lcfc81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Fox Posted 10 July 2020 Author Share Posted 10 July 2020 8 hours ago, pmcla26 said: It’s not, otherwise I wouldn’t have said it’s been successful... Edit: not saying it’s not had some dubious moments too, just not nigh on every game in dispute, like here in the Premier League. I think it just you being out of the media in other countries, it’s a sham here and absolutely pathetic at times. I said this numerous times when we were thinking about introducing it here, since its introduction crowd numbers have dwindled. It’s the same in other countries too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 11 July 2020 Share Posted 11 July 2020 (edited) Looking at the relegation scrap and the fixtures, I cant see how the bottom 3 can escape. West Ham and Watford have favourable fixtures and I cant see Villa and Bournemouth getting enough points before the West Ham Villa game in the final game of the season. Worse still, think West Ham will be safe before they play Man U. Edited 11 July 2020 by Nalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 11 July 2020 Share Posted 11 July 2020 4 minutes ago, Nalis said: Looking at the relegation scrap and the fixtures, I cant see how the bottom 3 can escape. West Ham and Watford have favourable fixtures and I cant see Villa and Bournemouth getting enough points before the West Ham Villa game in the final game of the season. Worse still, think West Ham will be safe before they play Man U. Agree, I can't see the bottom 3 changing now. Delighted to see Villa go after the League Cup debacle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxin_Mad Posted 11 July 2020 Share Posted 11 July 2020 7 minutes ago, Nalis said: Looking at the relegation scrap and the fixtures, I cant see how the bottom 3 can escape. West Ham and Watford have favourable fixtures and I cant see Villa and Bournemouth getting enough points before the West Ham Villa game in the final game of the season. Worse still, think West Ham will be safe before they play Man U. Cant see West Ham beating Utd either way. United will win every game now easily, including us. They will end with a better goal difference too. The only side that might get a result against them is Southampton, but they are strong and getting decsions when they are struggling to break teams down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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