Corona Virus

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, Crinklyfox said:

As one of the retired posters on FT I applaud the message that we should be self-isolating but IMO there are two factors working against that:

 

1.  The situation in the shops.  I had been self-isolating all week in an attempt to protect my wife and myself, but as I hadn't been hoarding I needed to do a weekly shop to get enough to last the next week.  This took me two days in stores packed with people.  Self-isolation will fail unless the panic buying and shortage issues are sorted out.

 

2.  Many people just don't take this seriously.  As I previously posted I wore a mask for my shop, which I had purchased several weeks ago in anticipation of the spread of the virus.  Apart from some shop assistants I was the only person protecting myself and others in this way.  My appearance attracted many smiles, some laughs and in one case abuse from another shopper who told me in no uncertain terms that my mask wasn't necessary.  I also overheard a paramedic outside a shop telling another shopper not to believe the hype about the virus.  I fear that this will have to get much worse before those people wake up to the reality.

Wasn't me! 

[BKLFox]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

Just walked round to the corner shop as I'd ran out of butter. Saw two driving instructors giving lessons. I know it's tough for the self employed at the minute, but I'm not sure spending an hour sat next to someone in a small car, whilst they touch all the implements and the driving it straight after them complies with the social distancing rules.

 Boris's fault I'm sure

[davieG]

9 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

This echoes the BuzzFeed story which claims that there was a divide between most of the scientists/experts on one side and Patrick Vallance and Classic Dom on the other until the Imperial College study that crunched the numbers from Italy came out

Common sense would have told them that wasn't going to work. For a start how would 60% to 80% of the population off work 'save' the economy? It also presumes that only pensioners would be affected, that you can't be infected twice or that it wont mutate into something even more lethal.

 

This was a **** Up decision on a monumental scale. Experimenting with people's lives and i  bet they'd ensure their own safety as far as is possible.

[BKLFox]

7 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

We'd arranged to have mum over for lunch at my sister's for Mother's Day. Me and my sister discussed it at length today with our concerns. Mum insists she wants to come and accepts there'd be no physical contact and as much safe distancing as possible. She rarely leaves the house (due to age and mobility) and she loves seeing everyone together (there'd be 3 adults, 3 kids aged 10-13 and her). It's a real conflict. Me and my sister go and do jobs at mum's (at a safe distance as possible) so is it any different to that? You're right Izzy mate, it's all fvckin nuts.

 

It was clarified on Thursday that Boris would be seeing his mum via Skype, not personally.

Maybe that changes your view or maybe it doesn't, worth clarifying anyway.

I've done the same mate and like you I discussed this with my brother and sister and we came to the decision like sensible adults that for HER safety we have to stay away and not because Boris told us too or didn't tell us too as some seem to think 

Have a gr8 Skype call with your mum and keep her smiling 

 

 

[nnfox]

2 hours ago, RobHawk said:

I'm not getting into the politics of it all at this time, but anyone who knows anything about leadership knows you need a clear vision and communicating that clearly is key.

 

From day one the government have got this wrong, there's been no clear vision and people aren't taking the situation seriously just as the government didn't a week ago. 

 

People are also twats, no denying that but from a leadership point of view the government has fallen on its arse

I agree with most of this but I do think the government had a strategy from the start and like most plans, has some flexibility built into it.

 

Boris has done a poor job of communicating.  This is a time of crisis and clear leadership and instruction is needed. Boris has, imo, come up short in this area.

 

With all that said, if everyone had taken the government's advice around social distancing then maybe we'd be on a different trajectory.  The biggest problem is that we have too many people who believe they have a devine right to do as they please, whatever the circumstance and whatever the cost to others.

[Innovindil]

Cooking dinner for the old folk to drop round and bolt. Need to do something to raise spirits. Mum housebound and she tried some DIY shite from boredom and busted her back. 

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

Like I said people need to get out their head they can't leave the house, they can. I'm not sure why you're confused. It's pretty clear. 

In fact, the recommendation is for people who are ASYMPTOMATIC and not in a high risk group, to socially distance themselves but go out for walks in open spaces or walk their dogs in order to support their mental and physical wellbeing.

[Bayfox]

24 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

A positive. It is simply stunning outside. The air is so fresh! It’s beautiful!

Yep the irony of this being a lovely day to pub for a couple of pints, maybe even set outside is not lost.

 

But I think apart from the twats queuing round asda Thurmaston car park at 9 45 this morning ( I turned round and went aldi) I think the message is starting to get through, maybe the lack of kids football as well, but the roads round me are a lot quieter, and the neighbours are keeping their kids on their own gardens and drives, but at least they are getting some sun and exercise.

 

When I passed our local aldi there was only 2 people waiting outside, but opening there was perhaps 40 or 50 but most were stood a safe distance apart, and the shop was well stocked, but people were being sensible. Many just had baskets and popped a few items in, even those with trolleys looked like they were adding a normal weekly shop.

 

I managed to spend about 20 quid, mainly on stuff for the kids, was nice to see come chicken and cucumbers on the shelves for my daughter. Fussy madam she is.

 

Have to say I may consider changing to aldi for more stuff once this dies down, also been using some of the local corner shops a bit more as well, they seem to be able to get hold of the essentials from the cash and carrys meaning they have bread, eggs, toilet rolls etc at all times, and the one in goscote has been making sure he looks after his regular and elderly customers, by making sure he holds stuff back or buying on request at the cash carry after his work. Think I may start to do more little shops in the after math, I tend to do one early sat morning to lady us the week as it's less time consuming but I will certainly try to walk to the village shop and buy the essentials where I can more often.

 

There's hopefully a positive coming from this, that once it does down, we start to look after each other a little more, ok probably not, but it would be nice to think it could happen.

 

 

[Guesty]

When this is all over. It will be interesting seeing the investigations into our response. I've long been uncomfortable with unelected officials (with no accountabilty) having to so much power in how the country is run. It seems to happen in all politicial parties now. This is the sort of event where they won't be able to hide away and avoid official scrutiny.

 

Also hope they reconsider how they train some emergency services. Whilst doing a degree takes the training cost off the government and puts it on the individual. Maybe apprenticeships and on the job training would be better in case anything like this ever happens again.

 

It's also frustraing that if you got your driving licence before 1997 you can drive an ambulance but if you passed after you have to take a medical, entirely new theory and practical test for the C1 category. Maybe their's a logical reason for it. But could it not be included in the training, because I'd apply. An intensive C1 training course costs around £1000-1500 and it's hard to part with that money for a career change into a student technician when you don't know when it's next going to be advertised or if you'll even be given the job. And if you already have a degree you don't get any financial assistance to do a paramedic degree. 

Edited 22 March 2020 by Guesty

[DennisNedry]

It's hardly surprising that people are failing to self-isolate, are visiting public spaces etc in the West at a greater rate than other regions of the word, particularly Asia.  Firstly, people have less respect for authority (be in the Gov, Police etc), and secondly, we in the west live in very atomised selfish entitled societies. The sense of community, nationhood and responsibility that exists in many places around the world has been greatly diminished in the west.

[BKLFox]

4 minutes ago, nnfox said:

I agree with most of this but I do think the government had a strategy from the start and like most plans, has some flexibility built into it.

 

Boris has done a poor job of communicating.  This is a time of crisis and clear leadership and instruction is needed. Boris has, imo, come up short in this area.

 

With all that said, if everyone had taken the government's advice around social distancing then maybe we'd be on a different trajectory.  The biggest problem is that we have too many people who believe they have a devine right to do as they please, whatever the circumstance and whatever the cost to others.

With regards to a clear communication I do agree, to a degree, but for fear of sounding like I love Boris it sounds like every person on this forum has also heard Boris say we ALL need to be doing our bit, we now need to self isolate and observe social distancing when we go out for essentials would I be correct in saying that?

I certainly heard him say that on his daily briefs.

 

i now agree he need to install snipers around the UK to take out all those that don't comply have you seen the pictures on BBC website of all the cars and people heading up Pen-Y-Pass it staggers me that this is still happening and that some are blaming Boris for miscommunication but where has he said we must stay in but still go out on family jollies if you want too because I must have missed that!

[WigstonWanderer]

17 minutes ago, davieG said:

Common sense would have told them that wasn't going to work. For a start how would 60% to 80% of the population off work 'save' the economy? It also presumes that only pensioners would be affected, that you can't be infected twice or that it wont mutate into something even more lethal.

 

This was a **** Up decision on a monumental scale. Experimenting with people's lives and i  bet they'd ensure their own safety as far as is possible.

Yes indeed. If 60% to 80% were to be infected, that’s 50m people or more. At the “up to 1%” mortality rate quoted by the government’s own advisors this is ~ 500,000 deaths. People had calculated this in these very pages, so I’m not sure why the government were so “surprised” by the Imperial College 250k figures.

 

I suspect that they weren’t at all surprised but the realisation dawned that these figures might be politically unpalatable.

[CosbehFox]

34 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

 Boris's fault I'm sure

 

26 minutes ago, nnfox said:

With all that said, if everyone had taken the government's advice around social distancing then maybe we'd be on a different trajectory.  The biggest problem is that we have too many people who believe they have a devine right to do as they please, whatever the circumstance and whatever the cost to others.

Government advice on Social distancing to be followed yet....

 

large capacity stores such as Marks and Spencers, Waterstones, Next and other stores are open. Building sites and call centres are still open. We have train services running from top to bottom of the country. We have coffee shops doing take away only which is leading to queues ten deep in a row. 
 

Those staff are going to encounter 50 people at best across each and every day. These people worried about their jobs, rather than avoiding work for safety, they are putting themselves and others at risk. You try telling that staff they are idiots when they rent a property and don’t have the security of other family. 

 

Yes we have pricks doing what they want but as along as you have all these things running you are going to get people resistant to change.  

Edited 22 March 2020 by Cardiff_Fox

[Guest MattP]

2 hours ago, shanetko said:

This is the real decision maker. Taken from today’s Times.

 

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

How can anyone even defend that?! 

If he's "the real decision maker" then why has he been ignored?

 

This story wouldn't surprise me though and Tim Shipman is as reliable as it gets.

 

Time to butt out Dom - leave this to the scientists. This isn't your job.

[worth_the_wait]

I can't believe the number of people who say "the message hasn't been clear".    It's been crystal clear from day one.   You just have to listen and read,

 

You may not totally agree with what's been said, but it's coming from people who know a lot more about this than us.

 

The message may also change from one day to the next, but that's the nature of this problem.   It is being monitored and analysed on an hour by hour basis.

 

How can anyone not understand what "social distancing" means?  The rules will undoubtedly get more severe as time goes on, but currently the message is simple.

 

Don't have any unnecessary contact with people, ie remove "social" interraction.   But If you do need to go to work, go shopping, or carry out an activity that is "necessary" - then try and keep a sensible distance from people (6'6" or 2 metres if possible), or if not then as far as reasonably possible under the circumstances.   

 

It's about using common sense.   It's not that difficult.

[StanSP]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

If he's "the real decision maker" then why has he been ignored?

 

This story wouldn't surprise me though and Tim Shipman is as reliable as it gets.

 

Time to butt out Dom - leave this to the scientists. This isn't your job.

I don't think he has been ignored given the original advice is what Boris took on? If you mean public, then because Boris is the face of the government he has to take responsibility but I imagine/hope Dominic is getting slaughtered behind the scenes. 

[z-layrex]

So NHS hour at tesco was absolute pandemonium this morning. How is it fair for NHS workers to strip the shelves before the public can even enter? Plus social distancing? I haven't been in such a crowd of people since the last gig I went to.

Edited 22 March 2020 by z-layrex

[Izzy]

4 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

So NHS hour at tesco was absolute pandemonium this morning. How is it fair for NHS workers to strip the shelves before the public can even enter? Plus social distancing? I haven't been in such a crowd of people since the last gig I went to.

Bollocks to supermarkets for the next 12 weeks or whatever.

 

I'm avoiding them and shopping local from now on until all this is over.

[StanSP]

8 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

So NHS hour at tesco was absolute pandemonium this morning. How is it fair for NHS workers to strip the shelves before the public can even enter? Plus social distancing? I haven't been in such a crowd of people since the last gig I went to.

Are you taking the piss? 

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Are you taking the piss? 

Either taking the piss or completely oblivious to what the NHS folk have been able to shop for the last week. 

[FoxesDeb]

I'm really struggling to understand why people feel that we have to be put under some kind of lockdown before they will change their behaviour, in fact it's making me pretty angry. Everything I've heard has been clear, why can't people just follow the fvcking advice? Why do they need to be forced into something? 

[Anorak]

Who still has to go to work tomorrow?

 

I'm on a shorter shift and have to keep my distance from the other 5 or so people who will be there. How long that will last I have no idea.

[brucey]

9 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

So NHS hour at tesco was absolute pandemonium this morning. How is it fair for NHS workers to strip the shelves before the public can even enter? Plus social distancing? I haven't been in such a crowd of people since the last gig I went to.

Same in the local Tesco. Perhaps not the best idea to have all HCWs in a region rammed in the same confined space... Our hospital has arranged for some farm shops to set up in the car park a couple days a week but I expect that will be mobbed just as badly. I think Sainsbury are doing half an NHS hour most days, which may be less busy? 

[joachim1965]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

I'm really struggling to understand why people feel that we have to be put under some kind of lockdown before they will change their behaviour, in fact it's making me pretty angry. Everything I've heard has been clear, why can't people just follow the fvcking advice? Why do they need to be forced into something? 

Because people still think that there is no problem, I am currently sat on my boat in Barrow and the amount of people and groups of people walking by is staggering.

[Guest MattP]

15 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I don't think he has been ignored given the original advice is what Boris took on? If you mean public, then because Boris is the face of the government he has to take responsibility but I imagine/hope Dominic is getting slaughtered behind the scenes. 

Read the article fully in the ST and it tells you it was never really considered- 510,000 deaths was the projection and wasn't the view of anyone in the cabinet it should be pursued.

 

It's weird Cummings is trying to be the scientist though - stick to electoral strategy.