Corona Virus

[davieG]

20 minutes ago, reynard said:

Prof. Ferguson has hinted about an age release idea but has also hinted at geographical potential too. However, he was also pretty clear that any form of release of the lockdown was unlikely for "several weeks" and that would only happen when we were able to test much more widely within the community. The government really needs to get hold of the testing situation and ramp it up more quickly and widely. If that was done then it is possible to see how certain areas could lift restrictions  locally at first. If you live in the Scottish Highlands for example it ought to be possible to test enough of the local commuinty to allow it to reopen though cross country travel would probably still need to be banned.

 

I think we all need to be patient re vaccine and face the fact that there may never be one that is effective. We have been searching for a vaccine against the common cold for years without success. Work looks encouraging so far but no more than that. The development of some form of anti-viral treatment or plasma using blood from recovered patients may also help.

I don't see international travel returning on any scale this year. Would anyone really fancy a beach holiday in Spain in the course of this summer for eg?

All the big drive in test stations I've seen or heard about on TV have been at airport car parks with only a few cars at the multiple test stations why are they not in hospital car parks or at least more accessible places? Or are they?

[Innovindil]

Big dilemma. Just had a call from my boss asking if I'll return to work on Tuesday. Got an "essential" job to do, said we'll only be returning 1/3 of the workforce to get it done and those who have been asked to return will receive normal pay + whatever the furlough pay was as a hazard bonus while the lockdown continues. That's ****ing silly money in most people's books, but my missus cooks at a care home, I have no idea what to do. We'll be spread apart at work so it should be okay? And what we're being asked to do is surely important too, or he wouldn't have rang.

 

Gah. I've been good through this and only left the home for groceries once a week, but now I've not got a clue. 

[murphy]

6 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Big dilemma. Just had a call from my boss asking if I'll return to work on Tuesday. Got an "essential" job to do, said we'll only be returning 1/3 of the workforce to get it done and those who have been asked to return will receive normal pay + whatever the furlough pay was as a hazard bonus while the lockdown continues. That's ****ing silly money in most people's books, but my missus cooks at a care home, I have no idea what to do. We'll be spread apart at work so it should be okay? And what we're being asked to do is surely important too, or he wouldn't have rang.

 

Gah. I've been good through this and only left the home for groceries once a week, but now I've not got a clue. 

Tough decision.  If he's only recalling 1/3 of the workforce, couldn't you say that you'd rather not if you're concerned, cite the missus' job perhaps and your boss still has 2/3 of the workforce to call upon so he should have enough volunteers.  Unless you have some particular skills that are needed?  Do you know what the particular job is?

[Alf Bentley]

22 minutes ago, reynard said:

Prof. Ferguson has hinted about an age release idea but has also hinted at geographical potential too. However, he was also pretty clear that any form of release of the lockdown was unlikely for "several weeks" and that would only happen when we were able to test much more widely within the community. The government really needs to get hold of the testing situation and ramp it up more quickly and widely. If that was done then it is possible to see how certain areas could lift restrictions  locally at first. If you live in the Scottish Highlands for example it ought to be possible to test enough of the local commuinty to allow it to reopen though cross country travel would probably still need to be banned.

 

I think we all need to be patient re vaccine and face the fact that there may never be one that is effective. We have been searching for a vaccine against the common cold for years without success. Work looks encouraging so far but no more than that. The development of some form of anti-viral treatment or plasma using blood from recovered patients may also help.

I don't see international travel returning on any scale this year. Would anyone really fancy a beach holiday in Spain in the course of this summer for eg?

 

On Newsnight last night, both Andy Burnham (Labour, Manchester Mayor) and Andy Street (Tory, West Midlands Mayor) opposed the idea of restrictions being lifted in some areas ahead of others.

 

As Burnham said, he just couldn't see the Manchester public accepting a situation where they saw, say, pubs in London opening, but pubs in Manchester staying shut.

 

As you say, there might be more potential to try it out with less populated regions, like the Scottish Highlands. But that might require controls on cross-country travel, as you suggest - and I'm not sure how practical that would be (police on key roads north of the Scottish central belt, stopping all traffic to check whether people lived in the Highlands or had a bona fide reason for going there?). There were a lot of complaints a few weeks back about English people heading to the north of Scotland with caravans to escape coronavirus down South - and similar in Devon/Cornwall this weekend.

 

In a few weeks, relaxing restrictions based on age, health vulnerability and/or nature of establishments might be more feasible: e.g. asking the elderly and vulnerable to stay at home, but allowing others to return to work and allowing more shops and restaurants to open up, with social distancing measures - but not pubs, cinemas or theatres (or football ?) where it's harder to avoid large concentrations of people who don't know one another in close proximity? 

 

Re. Spanish beaches: I was thinking about this already, as I was hoping to go wandering around Europe this summer. I wouldn't want to go on a beach holiday as that's not my thing, but if the infection rate had subsided to a low level, I suspect that I would still like to go wandering around the continent - just taking a few precautions and accepting the slight risk. Even beach holidays might be viable as inevitably, there'd be a lot fewer people so maybe social distancing would be feasible?

[Desabafar]

20 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Big dilemma. Just had a call from my boss asking if I'll return to work on Tuesday. Got an "essential" job to do, said we'll only be returning 1/3 of the workforce to get it done and those who have been asked to return will receive normal pay + whatever the furlough pay was as a hazard bonus while the lockdown continues. That's ****ing silly money in most people's books, but my missus cooks at a care home, I have no idea what to do. We'll be spread apart at work so it should be okay? And what we're being asked to do is surely important too, or he wouldn't have rang.

 

Gah. I've been good through this and only left the home for groceries once a week, but now I've not got a clue. 

how can you claim the furlough pay if you're not furloughed anymore

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Desabafar said:

how can you claim the furlough pay if you're not furloughed anymore

If they’ve been furloughed for three weeks then they can recommence furlough again after taking care of the job that’s needs doing.  But if they haven’t been furloughed for three weeks then coming back will mean that the company cannot claim the 80% of wages through the govt scheme for those that return ..... perhaps the numbers stack up for the company to take care of that commitment to those who return. 

[nnfox]

5 minutes ago, Desabafar said:

how can you claim the furlough pay if you're not furloughed anymore

This. Furlough payments are a safety net and there because you can't work, it isn't a bonus system.

[brucey]

29 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Big dilemma. Just had a call from my boss asking if I'll return to work on Tuesday. Got an "essential" job to do, said we'll only be returning 1/3 of the workforce to get it done and those who have been asked to return will receive normal pay + whatever the furlough pay was as a hazard bonus while the lockdown continues. That's ****ing silly money in most people's books, but my missus cooks at a care home, I have no idea what to do. We'll be spread apart at work so it should be okay? And what we're being asked to do is surely important too, or he wouldn't have rang.

 

Gah. I've been good through this and only left the home for groceries once a week, but now I've not got a clue. 

How long will it take? If just a couple weeks and your salary is going up by 80%, you could perhaps use some of it to rent a second place where one of you can stay for a couple weeks, some healthcare staff are doing this. 

 

I'm presuming he isn't actually claiming furlough pay but using it as a guide for how much the hazard pay should be?

 

Edited 10 April 2020 by brucey

[Innovindil]

22 minutes ago, murphy said:

Tough decision.  If he's only recalling 1/3 of the workforce, couldn't you say that you'd rather not if you're concerned, cite the missus' job perhaps and your boss still has 2/3 of the workforce to call upon so he should have enough volunteers.  Unless you have some particular skills that are needed?  Do you know what the particular job is?

Trouble is is the workforce aren't equally skilled, we have different machines for different people, there's only 2 other people in the place that can do what I do, one is coming back in conjunction with me and the other is close enough to retirement to not want to put himself at risk (understandably)

 

12 minutes ago, Desabafar said:

how can you claim the furlough pay if you're not furloughed anymore

 

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

If they’ve been furloughed for three weeks then they can recommence furlough again after taking care of the job that’s needs doing.  But if they haven’t been furloughed for three weeks then coming back will mean that the company cannot claim the 80% of wages through the govt scheme for those that return ..... perhaps the numbers stack up for the company to take care of that commitment to those who return. 

We will have be furloughed for 3 weeks by the time we return. And the hazard pay equal to furlough pay is coming out of company coffers, that's how important getting this job done is. We're not sniping it off the government.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

Trouble is is the workforce aren't equally skilled, we have different machines for different people, there's only 2 other people in the place that can do what I do, one is coming back in conjunction with me and the other is close enough to retirement to not want to put himself at risk (understandably)

 

 

We will have be furloughed for 3 weeks by the time we return. And the hazard pay equal to furlough pay is coming out of company coffers, that's how important getting this job done is. We're not sniping it off the government.

But they should be claiming the past three weeks ..........that’s fair enough .......

 

Do you know if you will be re furloughed after completing this job? 

[Innovindil]

9 minutes ago, brucey said:

How long will it take? If just a couple weeks and your salary is going up by 80%, you could perhaps use some of it to rent a second place where one of you can stay for a couple weeks, some healthcare staff are doing this. 

 

I'm presuming he isn't actually claiming furlough pay but using it as a guide for how much the hazard pay should be?

 

That's right. And I genuinely have no idea how long the job will take til I get it set up. Renting a second place isn't a bad idea at all, cheers.

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

But they should be claiming the past three weeks ..........that’s fair enough .......

 

Do you know if you will be re furloughed after completing this job? 

Yeah they have been. No idea on re furloughing. Only had a quick chat with the boss on the phone, I guess it will depend how long the job takes/where the country is when it's done. Always a possibility I guess.

[Tuna]

More idiots.

[BKLFox]

2 hours ago, Lionator said:

They haven’t been in lockdown at any point aside from a couple of weeks in Daegu when there was an explosion of cases.

 

They have great hygiene (mask wearing is the norm before this), good use of technology (a case tracking app) and most importantly were prepared for this, no complacency, just professional. 

Surely there have to be other factors in play it can't be down to wearing masks and  a phone app allowing them to control the virus without having to go into lockdown.

 

Could 1 of the factors be the amount of international visitors to the country they had during the start of this come into play, it has to, and that's nothing to do with the government planning its just luck for them that they didn't have the multiple carrier avenue streams that other harder hit countries like Spain, France and ourselves receive with London and Paris being 2 of the worlds largest layover spots for onward journeys in the world. Think how many people just passed through onto other flights, how many coughs, hands touching railings etc within the airports alone. Then there's the ports and tunnel avenues we have also.

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, reynard said:

Prof. Ferguson has hinted about an age release idea but has also hinted at geographical potential too. However, he was also pretty clear that any form of release of the lockdown was unlikely for "several weeks" and that would only happen when we were able to test much more widely within the community. The government really needs to get hold of the testing situation and ramp it up more quickly and widely. If that was done then it is possible to see how certain areas could lift restrictions  locally at first. If you live in the Scottish Highlands for example it ought to be possible to test enough of the local commuinty to allow it to reopen though cross country travel would probably still need to be banned.

 

I think we all need to be patient re vaccine and face the fact that there may never be one that is effective. We have been searching for a vaccine against the common cold for years without success. Work looks encouraging so far but no more than that. The development of some form of anti-viral treatment or plasma using blood from recovered patients may also help.

I don't see international travel returning on any scale this year. Would anyone really fancy a beach holiday in Spain in the course of this summer for eg?

Nothing to do with a Spanish beach holiday.

 

Many people have families and friends in other countries they are desperate to go and visit when all this is over.

 

If it's a low risk country and you're staying inside with friends/family most of the time it shouldn't be too much of an issue once you're actually there.

 

The issue is more the social distancing at airports on on planes. It's definitely doable if aeroplanes use empty seats and passport control has the same queueing methods as supermarkets and hand sanitizer is available throughout the airport. Things like checked luggage might be a no go, but I could easily see international travel back up to the rest of the EU, Norway, Switzerland and Iceland starting to get back up and running by the end of the summer/early autumn. Eurostar and ferries might be even more doable - so long as people don't get out their cars when on board.

Edited 10 April 2020 by Sampson

[davieG]

Coronavirus doctor's diary: 'The most urgent research race in living memory'
8 hours ago

Dr John Wright of Bradford Royal Infirmary says "we are running for our lives" as doctors search for a treatment for Covid-19, in a nationwide medical trial.

9 April 2020
There have been one-and-a-half million cases of Covid-19 around the world, and 55,000 in the UK, with over 6,000 people dying. It's hard to think of the peace when you're in the middle of the war. However, we do need an exit strategy.

A vaccine will be found, but this is at least a year away, and if we're going to save precious lives, we desperately need effective treatments today. To do that, we need to harness the best medical research in the UK.

Now is the time to combine all our bright research lights and shine them on to Covid-19.

That's why we at Bradford Royal Infirmary are taking part in the Recovery trial. It stands for Randomised Evaluation of Covid-19 Therapy, and is recruiting anyone over the age of 18 who is admitted into hospital with coronavirus.

All patients will be randomly allocated to one of five arms, and be given either a placebo or one of four experimental treatments. More than 130 hospitals are involved, including St Thomas' in London, where Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been being treated. As of today, towards the end of the second week, 2,000 patients have been recruited, of whom 30 are in Bradford.

Prof John Wright, a medical doctor and epidemiologist, is head of the Bradford Institute for Health Research. He has looked after patients in epidemics all over the world, including cholera, HIV and ebola outbreaks in sub-Saharan Africa. Over the next few weeks he will be reporting for the BBC on how his hospital, the Bradford Royal Infirmary, is coping with Covid-19.

Read his previous diary entries:

Our hospitals weren't made to use this much oxygen
Why are people stealing hospital supplies?
Making life-and-death decisions
This is one of the advantages of having a National Health Service. We've never been so co-ordinated, having one big trial, and trying to recruit everybody in the country.

It's the biggest and most urgent research race in living memory, and we are running for our lives.

On Tuesday I accompanied Dr Dinesh Saralaya on the morning ward round in Ward 31, which is where the first of our Covid-19 patients were admitted, and which remains the centre of our fightback. Since then our infectious "red zone" has expanded - the red tide constantly gets higher and higher, seeping through the hospital. We've had more than 200 cases and 30 deaths.

Dinesh introduced me to a patient in his 40s who described the symptoms he'd started having about 12 days earlier.

"The first three days I'd say it was shivers, and temperature and then I lost the appetite and my taste. And then my cough got really bad. And at night time it was just like an attack of cough - and then it just doesn't stop," he said.

He'd also been having nose bleeds.

After three days in hospital he was already feeling a lot better.

Listen to John Wright
John Wright is recording from the hospital wards for BBC Radio 4's The NHS Front Line
You can hear the next episode at 11:00 on Tuesday 14 April, catch up with the previous episodes online, or download the podcast
At that point it was time to turn him on to his stomach - "tummy time", as the nurses call it - which often makes it easier for patients to breathe.

It was explained to him when he consented to take part in the trial that he might be given a placebo. The other four possibilities are:

 

Hydroxychloroquine, the antimalarial drug that President Trump said he had a good feeling about - which then led to a spate of overdoses and acute shortages

 

Kaletra, a combination of antiretroviral drugs used in treating HIV

 

Dexamethasone, a steroid, which is an old favourite in medicine when we don't quite know what's going on

 

Interferon, a cytokine, which may help fight the infection
The danger zone is between the 10th and 15th days, so this patient is not yet in the clear, even though he says he is feeling better.

Dinesh explained to him that the treatment would stop the day he leaves hospital and that the main beneficiaries would be future patients, because the data from the trial would show which treatment was most effective.

Afterwards I asked Zulfi Karim, president of the Bradford Council of Mosques, how he thought the city's Muslim community - who make up just under a third of the population - were feeling about the pandemic and the measures taken to tackle it.

"I think it has now finally dawned on everybody how deadly this is," he said.

"Reality has hit home. I think the community leaders absolutely feel that the lockdown of mosques and suspension of gatherings was the right thing to do. And now it's very much about 'How do we ride this out?'"

The decision to close mosques in the city was taken on 20 March, days before the government-imposed lockdown came into effect. But unfortunately, for Zulfi it was already too late. He started displaying symptoms of Covid-19 and has been really ill since. He is finally showing signs of recovery, after a period in which I was very worried about him.

I put it to Zulfi that coronavirus has highlighted inequalities. If you live in a nice house with a nice garden, lockdown isn't too bad, but if you're living in an overcrowded house in the inner city, it's really tough.

He agreed.

"It's tough and it's not just tough, but I think what we're going to find once we get out the other side, is that those areas are probably where we've had the highest number of fatalities as well."

Follow @docjohnwright on Twitter

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52236387

[leicsmac]

54 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Surely there have to be other factors in play it can't be down to wearing masks and  a phone app allowing them to control the virus without having to go into lockdown.

 

Could 1 of the factors be the amount of international visitors to the country they had during the start of this come into play, it has to, and that's nothing to do with the government planning its just luck for them that they didn't have the multiple carrier avenue streams that other harder hit countries like Spain, France and ourselves receive with London and Paris being 2 of the worlds largest layover spots for onward journeys in the world. Think how many people just passed through onto other flights, how many coughs, hands touching railings etc within the airports alone. Then there's the ports and tunnel avenues we have also.

It might be a factor, yeah, but seeing as the major point of outbreak in Korea was home grown rather than foreign (a shedload of their cases in their first big increase were from a cult church in Daegu) and that was a while after their first documented case, I'm not sure how big a factor it has been.

 

I'd agree there's more to it than better preparation and crisis management being the difference, but I don't think that is the big discrepancy.

[StanSP]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52238932

 

£540bn package agreed by EU to help with crisis.

 

Within that article, this handy graphic for comparison of how EU countries reacted 

 

Sweden, Iceland, Belarus, Latvia, Hungary the only countries not to have any localised or national lockdown measures in place.

 

 

[st albans fox]

Norman hunter in hospital with CV-19

[fuchsntf]

19 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Search for ‘Yulin Dog Meat Festival’. Warning: it’s ****ing grim. As is the following:
 

They torture the dogs (including boiling them alive) because they believe it makes the meat taste better.

Acumalation of  Meeting & discussing life with some Cross Region ,but still only a few Chinese:

 

Aquainted with some Original owners of Chinese restaurants,around the Midlands,Lotus House...etc

 

Many years ago,I Travelled through the Western Part of China  " autonymousRegions" Coming in from North-Pakistan Karakoram- route.

Bordering Russia.Basically following parts,und branch-offs,of the Old Silk Road...Including Nomads.

Plus Meeting Chinese/Asian workers in various regions of Africa,obviously also Europe.....

 

Food being One of the Major topics...Including a so called menage of delicasies.

China is Not a Full Nation of dog,or even " considered unclean" Meat eaters.According to some it probably splits 60/40,an high but still  a minority of dog eaters.

Some Party of china,in some Religions reviered dogs,so it would not be in their thoughts. Also though Old Manchuria contains alot of regions that eat Dogs etc..for ethnic Manchurians themselves its absolutely Taboo..

 

Nomads... The groups I came across,were Definite about it,they were not into dog-meat,though some tribal cousins in other areas might be, but would eat all wild Meat from the Land and not just only what they herded.

Two of the Girl herders,,I spoke to ( They became a reg.govt  sponsorship) told me that some Towns

they went to ( a real rarity) they seen in some markets Animals they had Never seen before,including what they thought to be  rodents,even for these Hardious young women,they thought at First it was bizarre...but not outragious...

 

Restaurant owners,chinese workers...A Mixed bunch,some who would of prepared & eaten various dishes,unacustomed to the Western European palate, and took it as totally normal. Others also  a kaleidescope..labourers or businessmen,technicians,thought the eating of cats or dogs quite deplorable,but in the chinese way of thinking..understandable ( or not)...

Other Asian- countries,Now here's a twist some of them will cuss each other,by detremently calling each other "Dog-eaters" Vietnamese against Koreans etc..

But nearly all Asian countries have Dogmeat markets,most more than China..In fact Ratio wise,outside Yulin, dog/cat festivals are banned and eating dogmeat is as previously mentioned  frowned upon..

 

Before we Shoot Off into any sort Of hypocritical Racism on China or other parts of Asia...Western European countries,including our little island,have had various birds ,foxes,badgers,Voles,weasels,dogs,& various Deer,& horse,as of Late farmed-Battery pigs,Rabbits chicken ,on our plates....

Its only Really since the Late 50s,that those in italics,Stopped totally  spreading on 'some's butchers Advertising boards,and Presentation hooks, Blocks or slabs..

Meat in the end is meat, we all love Bambi,but we still eat venison, black-beth,Black-beauty has nice & romantic tales surrounding them,but a Good ol'man T-bone & Other cuts from their cousins, are still seen on some British menues.. The Selling butcher only  has to be aware of such Medicines like 'bute', are Not in the food chain.

Dogs..etc its an emotional issue,nothing more...!!!

We have taken in the eating of the likes of Camel Aligators,Kangeroos,puffins & Osteriches(NP will be pleased)

Don t forget our own homegrown created diseases,where we had to Slaughter & Burn lifestocks,any of that could of got out of control

 

Now then the important Parts that are Really relevant,are firstly health considerations of Keeping produce free of contamination,

within those disgusting unnecessary Crude markets,no matter where in the world.

?Then that the traded Animal is free of viruses that can Transfer Not only to humans but also to relevant countries own lifestock,

Local wild Animals or pets....or again through our animals to ourselves..

Being callous, I am more worried about ,Exotic meats like pangolin,Monkey of any specie thereof,etc,etc

& worst of all bats, than I am dogmeat..

 

To Now Close this out...It is how,though contradiction in terms we humanely care for all lifestock before,we bring it to the market, or Slaughter house,and how we Dispatch them are the high marks/issues  we should be chasing...

The humans are, barbarians, even the Vegans....its our history,there must be awareness of all our characteristics,

but as we carry on evolving, epedmics / pendemics allowing,One hopes we can all  sometimes with friendly hard persuasion help each other across all divides.

Standing on an hypocritical, self-denying Platform and then demanding, won't cut it...!!!

 

Plus I am a T-rex, I get my veggies + Salat when I have devoured the beast,that eats the greens,I am fair und kind,I Don t Take Away their supplies,so the can have a nice Innocent carefree life,eating those Lovely nutritious,plants ,roots,und greens,I get it filtered and Mixed when I gobble up their Beautiful Loins of meat..

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 April 2020 by fuchsntf

[Paninistickers]

12 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Acumalation of  Meeting & discussing life with some Cross Region ,but still only a few Chinese:

 

Aquainted with some Original owners of Chinese restaurants,around the Midlands,Lotus House...etc

 

Many years ago,I Travelled through the Western Part of China  " autonymousRegions" Coming in from North-Pakistan Karakoram- route.

Bordering Russia.Basically following parts,und branch-offs,of the Old Silk Road...Including Nomads.

Plus Meeting Chinese/Asian workers in various regions of Africa,obviously also Europe.....

 

Food being One of the Major topics...Including a so called menage of delicasies.

China is Not a Full Nation of dog,or even " considered unclean" Meat eaters.According to some it probably splits 60/40,an high but still  minority of dog eaters.

Some Party of china,in some Religions reviered dogs,so it would not be in their thoughts. Also though Old Manchuria contains alot of regions that eat Dogs etc..

for ethnic Manchurians themselves its absolutely Taboo..

Nomads... The groups I came across,were Definite about it,they were not into dog-meat,though some tribal cousins in other areas might,but would eat all wild Meat from the Land and not just only what they herded.Two of the Girl herders,,I spoke to ( They became a reg.govt  sponsorship) told me that some Towns

they went to ( a real rarity) they seen in some markets Animals they had Never seen before,including what they thought to be  rodents,even for these Hardious young women,they thought at First it was bizarre...but not outragious...

Restaurant owners,chinese workers...A Mixed bunch,some who would of prepared & eaten various dishes,unacustomed to the Western European,and took it as totally normal. Others also  a kaleidescope..labourers or businessmen,technicians,thought the eating of cats or dogs quite deplorable,but in the chinese way of thinking..understandable ( or not)...

Other Asian- countries,Now here's a twist some of them will cuss each other,by detremently calling each other "Dog-eaters" Vietnamese against Koreans etc..

But nearly all Asian countries have Dogmeat markets,most more than China..In fact Ratio wise,outside Yulin, dog/cat festivals are banned and eating dogmeat is

as previously mentioned  frowned upon..

 

Before we Shoot Off into any sort Of hypocritical Racism on China or other parts of Asia...Western European countries,including our little island,have had various birds ,foxes,badgers,Voles,weasels,dogs,& various Deer,& horse,as of Late farmed-Battery pigs,Rabbits chicken ,on our plates....

Its only Really since the Late 50s,that those in italics,Stopped totally  spreading on 'some's butchers Advertising boards,and Presentation hooks, Blocks or slabs..

Meat in the end is meat, we all love Bambi,but we still eat venison, black-beth,Black-beauty has nice & romantic tales surrounding them,but a Good ol'man T-bone

& Other cuts from their cousins,are still seen on some British menues.. The Selling butcher has to be aware of such Medicines like 'bute', are Not in the food chain.

Dogs..etc its an emotional issue,nothing more...!!!We have taken in the eating of the likes of Camel Aligators,Kangeroos,puffins & Osteriches(NP will be pleased)

Don t forget our own homegrown created diseases,where we had to Slaughter & Burn lifestocks,any of that could of got out of control

 

Now then the important Parts that are Really relevant,are firstly health considerations of Keeping produce free of contamination,

within those disgusting unnecessary Crude markets,no matter where in the world.Then that the traded Animal is free of viruses that can Transfer Not only to humans but also to relevant countries own lifestock,Local wild Animals or pets....or again through our animals to ourselves..

Being callous, I am more worried about ,Exotic meats like pangolin,Monkey of any specie thereof,etc,etc & worst of all bats,than I am dogmeat..

To Now Close this out...It is how,though contradiction in terms we humanely care for all lifestock before,we bring it to the market, or Slaughter house,and how we

Dispatch it are high marks we should be chasing...

The humans are, barbarians, even the Vegans....its our history,there must be awareness of all our characteristics,

but as we carry on evolving, epedmics / pendemics allowing,One hopes we can all  sometimes with friendly hard persuasion help each other across all divides.

Standing on an hypocritical, self-denying Platform and then demanding, won't cut it...!!!

 

Plus I am a T-rex, I get my veggies + Salat when I have devoured the beast,that eats the greens,I am fair und kind,I Don t Take Away their supplies,so the can have a nice Innocent carefree life,eating those Lovely nutritious,plants ,roots,und greens,I get it filtered and Mixed when I gobble up their Beautiful Loins of meat..

 

 

 

 

 

I understand the rationale of eating meat. Even what we might think if as odd animals. 

 

It's boiling them, or skinning them, alive and prepping the meat on blood soaked cutting boards I'm uncomfortable with. 

[BKLFox]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

It might be a factor, yeah, but seeing as the major point of outbreak in Korea was home grown rather than foreign (a shedload of their cases in their first big increase were from a cult church in Daegu) and that was a while after their first documented case, I'm not sure how big a factor it has been.

 

I'd agree there's more to it than better preparation and crisis management being the difference, but I don't think that is the big discrepancy.

So agreed there is a major factor in traceability in that it's easier to trace homegrown cases, where-as we had x# of millions passing through our airports on their way to other countries with zero traceability, we were always going to be on a loser from the get-go.

 

I guess in hindsight it's easy to say shut the airports down in January but then the World and U.K. Weren't in a position to do so, financial, infrastructurally, mentally etc it takes time to get all this in place as well as sorting the economic issues it's not a case of plucking a figure out the sky and say there's the bailout pot, look at the questions that were raised when the plan was announced, the issues with who is a skilled worker etc etc there are still people ignoring rules / advice and they have had a gradual build up to adjust, imagine waking up 1 cold and wet morning in January to learn you are now housebound, there would be riots and bloodshed.

 

Again in hindsight is it easy to say test day 1, but ,and I might show some ignorance here, surely for the 'have you got it yes or no test' for it to truly work every single person in the UK would have to do it at the same time followed by every single person standing still for 14 days, otherwise subject A who doesn't have it next day gets it from a trip to the shops but is logged as not having it? Appreciate that's a very simplistic view but is it far from the truth?

 

We are now in a lockdown, cases are reducing and now I do believe we need to start rolling out the 'immunity' test rather than the yes/no test although I understand we are still waiting on a user friendly and accurate test to be developed  and then we have to wait for manufacturing and rollout of these 60+m units again takes time.

 

This is a once in millennium style event and whilst it's easy for ALL of us to sit here with time on our hands and apportion a we shoulda, coulda, woulda, attitude and put blame on the Government for every move they take, when the truth is we will never know which was right or wrong unless we could run both sceneries in parallel.

 

ps apologies I went from a reply to getting things of my chest and not addressed directly to you.

 

[Unabomber]

Why are people wearing normal gloves out?! Idiots 

[stix]

3 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Big dilemma. Just had a call from my boss asking if I'll return to work on Tuesday. Got an "essential" job to do, said we'll only be returning 1/3 of the workforce to get it done and those who have been asked to return will receive normal pay + whatever the furlough pay was as a hazard bonus while the lockdown continues. That's ****ing silly money in most people's books, but my missus cooks at a care home, I have no idea what to do. We'll be spread apart at work so it should be okay? And what we're being asked to do is surely important too, or he wouldn't have rang.

 

Gah. I've been good through this and only left the home for groceries once a week, but now I've not got a clue. 

What is it you do? Sounds like Engineering of sorts. I’m a Toolmaker and my firm is business as usual. Claiming they’re part of a supply chain that’s essential for RR. No chance they’ll furlough us. 
 

Just as an aside, having been furloughed for three weeks now, are you not climbing the walls. I booked the two weeks off after boris’ lockdown announcement on that Monday night, and to be honest I was gagging to get back to work, just for the social(distancing) really. 

[leicsmac]

31 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

So agreed there is a major factor in traceability in that it's easier to trace homegrown cases, where-as we had x# of millions passing through our airports on their way to other countries with zero traceability, we were always going to be on a loser from the get-go.

 

I guess in hindsight it's easy to say shut the airports down in January but then the World and U.K. Weren't in a position to do so, financial, infrastructurally, mentally etc it takes time to get all this in place as well as sorting the economic issues it's not a case of plucking a figure out the sky and say there's the bailout pot, look at the questions that were raised when the plan was announced, the issues with who is a skilled worker etc etc there are still people ignoring rules / advice and they have had a gradual build up to adjust, imagine waking up 1 cold and wet morning in January to learn you are now housebound, there would be riots and bloodshed.

 

Again in hindsight is it easy to say test day 1, but ,and I might show some ignorance here, surely for the 'have you got it yes or no test' for it to truly work every single person in the UK would have to do it at the same time followed by every single person standing still for 14 days, otherwise subject A who doesn't have it next day gets it from a trip to the shops but is logged as not having it? Appreciate that's a very simplistic view but is it far from the truth?

 

We are now in a lockdown, cases are reducing and now I do believe we need to start rolling out the 'immunity' test rather than the yes/no test although I understand we are still waiting on a user friendly and accurate test to be developed  and then we have to wait for manufacturing and rollout of these 60+m units again takes time.

 

This is a once in millennium style event and whilst it's easy for ALL of us to sit here with time on our hands and apportion a we shoulda, coulda, woulda, attitude and put blame on the Government for every move they take, when the truth is we will never know which was right or wrong unless we could run both sceneries in parallel.

 

ps apologies I went from a reply to getting things of my chest and not addressed directly to you.

 

Don't worry about it! The points here are salient.

 

Personally I'm not looking to criticise the UK government for their response, but pointing out that the Korean response has been, so far in terms of results, better than the vast majority of other places in the world.

 

NB. Incheon Airport is almost as big a "hub" for onward travel as Heathrow is.