Innovindil Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 10 minutes ago, Strokes said: I don’t doubt there are strategic plans in place and some of those may involve the abandonment of the plant but I find it amusing that people on here that are so against misinformation and fake news are happy to spread such idle gossip as fact. They might say they wish brexit to be a success but you can sense that they cant wait for facts before saying I told so. They won't make any decisions until the deal/no deal question has been answered. Ain't gonna shift a multi-billion quid investment out of the country on a "could happen". The target still is, and always has been, to get a deal in place before New year. Trouble is people don't understand that the vast majority of time sensitive deals happen when time is running short. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Voll Blau Posted 24 November 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 24 November 2020 16 minutes ago, Strokes said: I don’t doubt there are strategic plans in place and some of those may involve the abandonment of the plant but I find it amusing that people on here that are so against misinformation and fake news are happy to spread such idle gossip as fact. They might say they wish brexit to be a success but you can sense that they cant wait for facts before saying I told so. Yep. If you're going to stand by an argument on the grounds it's more rooted in fact than the other side's, then you need to be damned sure your facts are always straight. Sadly we've become a society that doesn't place enough emphasis on fact-checking, and politicians of all colours have sought to exploit that in recent years to the extent where our national discourse has been hugely damaged as a result. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 Just now, Voll Blau said: Yep. If you're going to stand by an argument on the grounds it's more rooted in fact than the other side's, then you need to be damned sure your facts are always straight. Sadly we've become a society that doesn't place enough emphasis on fact-checking, and politicians of all colours have sought to exploit that in recent years to the extent where our national discourse has been hugely damaged as a result. We are all guilty of letting things get in the way of facts at times and brexit is a massively emotive subject. Which is why it’s even more important to absolutely certain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 The amount of people who want Brexit to fail so they can say "Told You So" is disturbing on various levels. Surely we should want to make the best of it because that helps the country, no? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 17 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: The amount of people who want Brexit to fail so they can say "Told You So" is disturbing on various levels. Surely we should want to make the best of it because that helps the country, no? What constitutes a success for Brexit? I see mostly downsides to it, so I feel that were Brexit to 'fail' (i.e. we stay closely aligned to the EU) it would generally be a good thing for people in the UK. If it succeeds and we make a clean break, as lots of true believers want, it would make the eventual breakup of the UK quite likely and would probably lead to job losses. It's kind of like communism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 1 hour ago, Strokes said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47287386 Honda said the move was due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles, and it had nothing to do with Brexit. Tbf I read that after I posted it. Apparently Honda pulling out of Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Voll Blau Posted 24 November 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 24 November 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: The amount of people who want Brexit to fail so they can say "Told You So" is disturbing on various levels. Surely we should want to make the best of it because that helps the country, no? Nobody wants to live in a country where their lives - or the lives of others - are made worse and, after the referendum, I think most reasonable people who voted Remain were hoping to see some version of Brexit that was actually palatable to them so we could all get on with our lives. The problem is that with every passing day, week, month and year since the result was announced that vision has slipped further and further from reality. What's actually going to happen now feels so far removed from what people actually voted for that it's just become impossible to give it any sort of backing at all. For me, there are just no upsides to it. That said, I've accepted it's happening and can't stand the #FBPE mob online. While their rhetoric might not be as poisonous as their opponents (am I really a fvcking "traitor" to my country for voting a certain way in a referendum?), it's certainly damaging as it totally misrepresents how most people who voted Remain actually feel. But then again, these are the kind of people who are solely concerned with proving how smart they are on the internet and who have almost zero self-awareness of how their smugness actually comes off - see also all the people who see defending Jeremy Corbyn as a more worthy cause than actually getting a Labour government elected to help the poorest in our society. Edited 24 November 2020 by Voll Blau 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: The amount of people who want Brexit to fail so they can say "Told You So" is disturbing on various levels. Surely we should want to make the best of it because that helps the country, no? You can do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Posted 24 November 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 24 November 2020 1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: The amount of people who want Brexit to fail so they can say "Told You So" is disturbing on various levels. Surely we should want to make the best of it because that helps the country, no? I agree with this. But it's just so depressing to see what this government are doing with the opportunity to make it look anything like well... an opportunity. I accepted the decision and wanted to get behind it. But it's not only an embarrassing shambles, its being made more divisive and lacking in integrity with each passing day. If it wasn't for the virus masking the news cycle, I do wonder if the government would be being held to a higher account. I'm finding the handling of the whole fiasco deeply saddening. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 19 minutes ago, Nick said: I agree with this. But it's just so depressing to see what this government are doing with the opportunity to make it look anything like well... an opportunity. I accepted the decision and wanted to get behind it. But it's not only an embarrassing shambles, its being made more divisive and lacking in integrity with each passing day. If it wasn't for the virus masking the news cycle, I do wonder if the government would be being held to a higher account. I'm finding the handling of the whole fiasco deeply saddening. I can’t disagree with you on this, my positive views on brexit are well documented. However it is certainly coming thick and fast and I worry it was a massive error to not negotiate a longer transition period when the pandemic struck and it was offered. Confidence in this government is evaporating fast and the reactive nature to the way they deal with problems or criticism is frightening. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 44 minutes ago, StanSP said: You can do both. You can, but only if you are right. Do you really want to be right this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 where we are is predictable - in the hands of the European nations - they will either take pity on us and compromise to get a deal of sorts done or they will leave us to stew in our own mess - (cos that's what it will be for a period - perhaps quite a period). we are fortunate that the pandemic has concentrated euro leaders minds that they can ill afford a no deal ….. without that they may well have already walked away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bovril Posted 24 November 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 24 November 2020 I think one of the reasons it's a hard for remain voters to get behind Brexit because of the way the debate was handled in the run up to the vote. It was honestly one of the most surreal things I've ever seen, where almost every point made by remain was dismissed as scaremongering, even when backed up with solid evidence and facts. Almost every ill in the country was tenuously linked to the EU, leftists and 'globalists', from grooming gangs in Rotherham to deindustrialization in the 80s. Nigel Farage was held up as a champion of the working class. An MP was murdered. We were going to trade with the Commonwealth. It was psychosis on a national level. Yes I will feel very sorry for people in Sunderland or anywhere else if a crash out happens and industry is massively affected. Nobody deserves to lose their jobs, whatever way they voted. But my sympathy is limited, honestly, not just because people were ignorant of things like the Single Market (I am not an expert), but because they didn't want to know, and they abused people who tried to tell them. They rejected experts, in that weird university-of-life wilful ignorance that seems to exist in this country. And what is unforgivable to me is how Brexit has worsened tensions and increased nationalism in the four countries of the UK and in Ireland. Something that was so blindingly obvious there were multiple articles written about it in the run up to the referendum, and yet totally escaped Brexiters until just recently. I have friends living in the EU whose lives have already been seriously affected by this. So honestly I'm struggling to get on board the good ship Brexit. So yes I hope Brexit will go well. I imagine most of the country does. But I also imagine the majority of people - whichever way they voted - wish they had never heard the word at all. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 No-deal Brexit would cost UK car industry £55bn, says analysis The UK automotive sector risks losing £55bn in manufacturing value within five years in the event of a no-deal Brexit, according to new industry analysis. British car production could drop below 1m cars a year if there is no deal, compared with more than 1.3m in 2019, because tariffs would make large parts of the UK business unviable, said forecasts commissioned by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, the industry lobby group. The car industry has endured a difficult year, as the coronavirus pandemic has forced the temporary closure of every factory in Europe and reduced demand for new cars. At the same time, European car companies spent £54bn last year on new electric car technologies to meet tightening carbon dioxide emissions rules. Trade negotiations between the UK and EU have still not reached a conclusion, with little more than a month to go until the end of the Brexit transition period on 31 December. EU ambassadors have been told a deal is close to being finalised, but there is still a risk of talks falling through. The car industry has been outspoken in its opposition to a no-deal Brexit, which would result in 10% tariffs being applied to their products overnight, adding £1,900 to the average cost of a car imported from the EU. Industry executives have warned that a no-deal Brexit would jeopardise the future of UK plants. PSA Group has said it will only build its new Vauxhall Astra in the UK if there is a trade deal, while Nissan has said the business model of its Sunderland plant – the largest car factory in the UK – would be destroyed. Nissan’s chief operating officer, Ashwani Gupta, last week reiterated that “obviously our UK business will not be sustainable” if there were no deal, in an interview with Reuters. However, the Japanese carmaker on Monday denied a report in German media that a decision to close the plant had already been made. All of the UK’s large car manufacturers have foreign owners. The presence of Japanese and other European carmakers in the UK was based in large part on easy access to Europe’s single market, meaning that the industry sees any barriers to trade as damaging. The SMMT study, carried out by consultancy Auto Analysis, found that even a “bare bones” trade deal would cost the industry £14.1bn. George Gillespie, the SMMT’s president and the executive chairman of Japanese-owned car testing company Horiba Mira, said: “We need a future trading relationship that works for automotive. We’ve already spent nigh on £1bn preparing for the unknown of Brexit and lost 28 times that to Covid. Let us not also be left counting the cost of tariffs, especially not by accident.” https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/24/no-deal-brexit-uk-car-industry-tariffs-smmt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 24 November 2020 Share Posted 24 November 2020 I only supported remain because it was the sensible thing to do, not because I have a deep love of supranational bureaucracy. What has happened is entirely predictable. Let's be honest if it was *really* unpopular (like 80%+ strongly against) it could still be reversed. Nobody really wants it. The EU doesn't, Johnson is only pro-Brexit for reasons of self interest. It is ironic though, a populist government seizing power promising to return power to the people, breaking international agreements and lowering our status and reputation as a place to trade freely without government interference. Maybe Corbyn actually was right when he said he'd won the argument. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Buce Posted 24 November 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 24 November 2020 Scotland becomes first nation to provide free period products for all https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/24/scotland-becomes-first-nation-to-provide-free-period-products-for-all 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 25 November 2020 Share Posted 25 November 2020 This is the one of the most incompetent things I have ever seen. On so many levels. It's a huge number of people, and an even bigger proportion of the black community. Morally, politically just an obvious and giant misjudgement. Amber Rudd quitting was a great example of the minister taking the fall for an institution which then continues on much as before. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55065061 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoleftfeet Posted 25 November 2020 Share Posted 25 November 2020 11 hours ago, Buce said: Scotland becomes first nation to provide free period products for all https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/24/scotland-becomes-first-nation-to-provide-free-period-products-for-all paid for by the Barnet formula. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 25 November 2020 Share Posted 25 November 2020 55 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said: paid for by the Barnet formula. Yep, and when the rest of the UK is inclined to catch up in terms of women's rights, then I'm sure they have the budget to do so. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 25 November 2020 Share Posted 25 November 2020 20 hours ago, Nick said: I agree with this. But it's just so depressing to see what this government are doing with the opportunity to make it look anything like well... an opportunity. I accepted the decision and wanted to get behind it. But it's not only an embarrassing shambles, its being made more divisive and lacking in integrity with each passing day. If it wasn't for the virus masking the news cycle, I do wonder if the government would be being held to a higher account. I'm finding the handling of the whole fiasco deeply saddening. It is only an embarrassing shambles if you read / listen / watch the neverending coverage applauding every move the EU makes and condemning every move the UK makes. It is such bullshit. In reality this is pretty normal negotation with pretty normal issues remaining as the deadline approaches. There will be a deal I have no doubt, and probably I won't like it much and you won't either, but such is the nature of compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 25 November 2020 Share Posted 25 November 2020 41 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Yep, and when the rest of the UK is inclined to catch up in terms of women's rights, then I'm sure they have the budget to do so. Costs very little I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 25 November 2020 Share Posted 25 November 2020 10 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Costs very little I expect. Compared to a lot of other projects going on right now, I'd certainly agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StriderHiryu Posted 25 November 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 25 November 2020 More on the cronyism that has taken place during the midst of the pandemic. Really disgusting how much public money is being given away to those with friends in high places. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxile5 Posted 25 November 2020 Share Posted 25 November 2020 One of the biggest drivers for the Brexit voters, in a lot I know at least, was the fact that Cameron was banging the remain drum. The public opinion of him was at an all time low - and his desire to be part of the Euro Parliament so transparent - that many voted simply because his support was perceived as a curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLFox Posted 25 November 2020 Share Posted 25 November 2020 15 hours ago, Buce said: Scotland becomes first nation to provide free period products for all https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/24/scotland-becomes-first-nation-to-provide-free-period-products-for-all I wonder how this will work in practise, will every female requiring products be sent them monthly, will they just walk into a shop & take them & will they be monitored / controlled to only take 'x' number of products or will we see, like toilet rolls, people filling baskets & hording, or are they talking about free products only when your out & about away from home - office, shop, hospitality venues, public toilets etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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