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moore_94

Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall

By moore_94, in Transfer Talk

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

Just curious if you still hold this opinion? 
 

earlier in the thread you said you’d be happy taking a few million for him. 
 

By all accounts he seems like he’s flying yet again whilst out on loan. He’s on the same trajectory as Barnes, albeit at a few years older. 
 

would be very surprised if he wasn’t part of the squad next season. 
 

This is 100% why we shouldn’t write players off too soon. 

 

Mostly, yes. 

 

What I said is that we have a duty of care to the players we develop and their careers, holding on to players who aren't ever really going to make it in to our first team isn't really constructive for us or them. KDH is only a year younger than Youri Tielemans and two years younger than Madders and is comfortably not at their level. Unless we're intending to sell those two off and NOT buy quality replacements for them (which would be disappointing as an upwardly mobile club with top 4 ambitions), where's the pathway for KDH to feature as a regular key player for us?

 

I never said I'd sell him for any specific amount of money, I did quote somebody else who said loan him out to the Championship for a season to bump up his value and then sell him off at the end of the year, I'd still stand by that unless he comes back from Luton with Rodgers convinced that he's definitely got a place in the squad as a regular fixture next year and in that instance I'd be advocating selling Hamza instead.

 

 

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Lambert09

Lambert09

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Mostly, yes. 

 

What I said is that we have a duty of care to the players we develop and their careers, holding on to players who aren't ever really going to make it in to our first team isn't really constructive for us or them. KDH is only a year younger than Youri Tielemans and two years younger than Madders and is comfortably not at their level. Unless we're intending to sell those two off and NOT buy quality replacements for them (which would be disappointing as an upwardly mobile club with top 4 ambitions), where's the pathway for KDH to feature as a regular key player for us?

 

I never said I'd sell him for any specific amount of money, I did quote somebody else who said loan him out to the Championship for a season to bump up his value and then sell him off at the end of the year, I'd still stand by that unless he comes back from Luton with Rodgers convinced that he's definitely got a place in the squad as a regular fixture next year and in that instance I'd be advocating selling Hamza instead.

 

 

I would  guess that he will be coming in as a cover for Youri for next season. I think he will be a useful player for us and who knows how far he can go. Genuinely though I think he's one to get excited about as the reports are ridiculously good. 

 

The luton fans I know think that if they owned him a top prem team would be signing him in January. I agree the challenge of ousting Youri is near impossible but we certainly have room for him in the squad and I think he will be a great addition next year. 

 

Time will tell and you could end up right but I think the club have got this one correct. 

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ALC Fox

ALC Fox

Posted
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Posted (edited)
On 30/12/2020 at 16:11, Lambert09 said:

I would  guess that he will be coming in as a cover for Youri for next season. I think he will be a useful player for us and who knows how far he can go. Genuinely though I think he's one to get excited about as the reports are ridiculously good. 

 

The luton fans I know think that if they owned him a top prem team would be signing him in January. I agree the challenge of ousting Youri is near impossible but we certainly have room for him in the squad and I think he will be a great addition next year. 

 

Time will tell and you could end up right but I think the club have got this one correct. 

If he can be decent cover for Youri it would mean not having to do probably one of the most important pieces of business we currently have to do.

 

Youri is so integral to how we play, which is why he's been starting most PL and EL games, but if KDH can come in next season and be adequate cover in that area, we can protect Youri and keep him fresh for longer, especially if we have another European campaign to contend with.

 

When Tielemans is off form, we play so much worse as a team and he becomes a lightning rod for criticism as a result. Keeping him fit and firing is crucial. If KDH is as good as is being suggested and can perform well in the Tielemans role, he'd be a very valuable member of the squad.

 

Big shoes to fill, mind.

Edited by ALC Fox
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Steve Earle

Steve Earle

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, OllieLodge96 said:

Does anyone know what his current loan deal is? Is he due back soon or has it been extended until the end of the season?

Yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. Childish of me.

Edited by Steve Earle
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Jimmy

Jimmy

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, OllieLodge96 said:

Does anyone know what his current loan deal is? Is he due back soon or has it been extended until the end of the season?

it was always for the season but we could recall him if we wanted to

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fox_favourite

fox_favourite

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Fox seen in Norwich said:

Keep him on loan, he’s going to carrying on developing playing in the champ, rather than sitting on our bench every week 

Agree with this. Playing regularly is what he needs at the moment. We'll benefit more longer term. 

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volpeazzurro

volpeazzurro

Posted
Posted
On 30/12/2020 at 12:12, Finnegan said:

 

Mostly, yes. 

 

What I said is that we have a duty of care to the players we develop and their careers, holding on to players who aren't ever really going to make it in to our first team isn't really constructive for us or them. KDH is only a year younger than Youri Tielemans and two years younger than Madders and is comfortably not at their level. Unless we're intending to sell those two off and NOT buy quality replacements for them (which would be disappointing as an upwardly mobile club with top 4 ambitions), where's the pathway for KDH to feature as a regular key player for us?

 

I never said I'd sell him for any specific amount of money, I did quote somebody else who said loan him out to the Championship for a season to bump up his value and then sell him off at the end of the year, I'd still stand by that unless he comes back from Luton with Rodgers convinced that he's definitely got a place in the squad as a regular fixture next year and in that instance I'd be advocating selling Hamza instead.

 

 

I think duty of care to the player, whilst existent, comes a long way down the list compared to the needs and requirements of the club in a cut throat dog eat dog professional business. Tielemans and Maddison are exceptional players who just happened to bloom at a young age and life and football history provide plenty of examples of people who come to their peak later on. If the club are hanging on to this lad there will be a considered business reason behind it in the best interests of the club not him. It is a very amateur approach to write someone off merely because they attain a certain birthday. If he's still with us, there's a solid business reason behind it and they presumably still see something worth hanging onto and until that reason fades they will no doubt continue to do so. Whether that is to actually play in our first team or develop further to sell for the highest fee possible we'll have to wait and see. 

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Deeg67

Deeg67

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Vindaloo FOX said:

The lad is doing well let him develop.

Barnes was doing well when we recalled him, too.

 

We have a need if Praet is out indefinitely.  KDH is well-suited to meet that need.  If you have a player under your control who can be valuable when you're fighting for a European placement and in the knockout stages of the EL, I don't see the logic in not using that player.  Transfers in January are not easy, and we did nothing last year and ended up crashing out of the Champions League.

 

If Praet is OK?  Fine, leave the boy where he is.

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Plastik Man

Plastik Man

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Barnes was doing well when we recalled him, too.

 

When Puel recalled Barnes from WBA I'm fairly sure it was his second season loaned to the Championship,  and third loan in all. More than KDH.

 

After being recalled he played in the FA Cup ties v Fleetwood, and then hardly featured the rest of the season. It might actualy have suited Barnes development better to have remained at WBA for the rest of that season.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

I think duty of care to the player, whilst existent, comes a long way down the list compared to the needs and requirements of the club in a cut throat dog eat dog professional business.

 

I guess morally that's just where we differ. 

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sacreblueits442

sacreblueits442

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I guess morally that's just where we differ. 

...the problem is that you are both right!!!

  We do owe a duty of care to our roster but as a business the players are in effect commodities, to be used, within a multi million pound business of which they have signed up to.

  Morals are part of the human make up which leads to our ability to show compassion to others. When all is said and done this is a business and as such, works for and against individual players.

Edited by sacreblueits442
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Deeg67

Deeg67

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Plastik Man said:

When Puel recalled Barnes from WBA I'm fairly sure it was his second season loaned to the Championship,  and third loan in all. More than KDH.

 

After being recalled he played in the FA Cup ties v Fleetwood, and then hardly featured the rest of the season. It might actualy have suited Barnes development better to have remained at WBA for the rest of that season.

Yes, he hardly featured 16 times.

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Plastik Man said:

When Puel recalled Barnes from WBA I'm fairly sure it was his second season loaned to the Championship,  and third loan in all. More than KDH.

 

After being recalled he played in the FA Cup ties v Fleetwood, and then hardly featured the rest of the season. It might actualy have suited Barnes development better to have remained at WBA for the rest of that season.

He was barely used when recalled from Barnsley. But from West Brom he very quickly became 1st choice under both Puel and then Rodgers.

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