"Project Big Picture"

[twister]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

When is the next PL meeting? Would love to be a fly on the wall in that meeting. 

Its happening as we speak.

[fuchsntf]

6 minutes ago, StanSP said:

When is the next PL meeting? Would love to be a fly on the wall in that meeting. 

No you wouldnt....

 

 

[Corky]

Simon Jordan is ripping Dowden and his crap reasons apart on TalkSport right now.

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Wow. Reading some of the self justifying posts on RAWK makes me a little sad. They wilfully mix loyalty with being partisan, and strive to legitimise every positive  viewpoint painted about their club. Even at its most base, defying their clubs part ownership of this proposal, seeking to blame and demonise the EFL clubs.

Fetid.

 

Something needs to help those that deserve help, not those that screw themselves into a financial shitstorm of their own making. This proposal grabs headlines, good ones at points, but too much uncertainty in the details.

Always been the same, a Liverpool supporting mate not long back was desperate for Klopp to play the kids against Shewsbury 'It's not our job to support the smaller clubs, don't overspend', but obviously he's totally fine with this 'project' as it benefits Liverpool. Also was bleating on about how someone should save Bury not long back, but was totally against Newcastle having new owners due to 'human rights'. Another opinion of his is that FFP should be strictly enforced more, so the bigger clubs have more money to spend (basically killing clubs like Man City from competing with them). Some football fans, although they try to take the moral high ground, just care about their team winning, I've got no problem with that, just be honest about it.

[Aus Fox]

19 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Liverpool and Man Utd are the biggest clubs in the Country by a mile. As for Spurs?! Two league titles and a load of FA Cups isn't impressive for a so called "elite club". There's loads of clubs, post WW2, that have won more league titles than Spurs. The obvious ones in the PL currently being Everton/Villa (also consider Villa won the Champions League too - and before anyone starts, yes it was the European Cup then, but it's still "Champions of Europe") but even Wolves have won more titles than Spurs, even since post WW2. Spurs' recent title "attempts" under Pochettino have made them into a "bigger" club in terms of more well known now but he was always overachieving with them for me. They are a big club wanabee who have no right to be included in this stupid "elite/big 6" list.

The big 6 always makes me laugh, as someone living on the other side of the world if I go into a Sports Bar on a match day when Arsenal, Liverpool or Man Utd are playing it is rammed full of blokes in replica shirts and all the merchandise, Chelsea more recently are getting to this level.

They are all truely massive global clubs - Man City are poorly followed for a team with their success and Spurs have a similar level of support to an Aston Villa or Everton, in fact Leicester are getting to a similar level as these clubs.

Its generally over the past 15 years or so been a similar picture wherever in the world I find myself.

Other than a big new stadium, I can’t think of a single measure that would put Spurs as an elite level club - they have had a few years of playing in the CL, but, it’s been 60 years since they won the league, 30 since they won the FA Cup and in fact since the PL was formed they have won 2 league cups! That’s not an elite club.

In that time we have matched their 2 league cups and Won the league.

All of the other 5 have won at least one Fa Cup and one League title and Wigan, Portsmouth and Everton have won an Fa. Cup and Blackburn have also had a league title.

 

[mozartfox]

If the EPL is turned into a less competitive competition, its appeal will reduce. Of course the fact that Teams like Leicester can hang to their better players longer and can compete on their day with the 'elite' Clubs, is irritating and an annoyance to the Big 6.  

 

The arrogance of Liverpool and Manure will hopefully backfire on them to some extent when the dust settles on this.  

 

[Samilktray]

People can make up all the nonsense they want about Spurs. As it stands they’re comfortably 1 of the top 6 biggest clubs in this country and are viewed by most of the footballing world as an elite club

[Fox92]

9 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

People can make up all the nonsense they want about Spurs. As it stands they’re comfortably 1 of the top 6 biggest clubs in this country and are viewed by most of the footballing world as an elite club

Currently yeah, historically no. Which is more to my point. Why do Spurs deserve to have a say over the likes of Newcastle/Everton/Villa - teams who have won more top flight titles? People can say "oh they last won something years ago" but so did Spurs. Last time Spurs were league champions was the 60's had just started. Why should they be able to tell other clubs, yes inlcuding us, what to do? I mean, we've won the league more recently than them.

 

I'm not even one of these people that think's we are a big club now and I certainly acknowledge the history of Liverpool/Man Utd and, at a push Arsenal, but Spurs? Not for me. New ground and a couple of decent seasons and they're now clased as an elite club? If the PL want to give more rights to certain clubs then they should consider now and history. They have a big fan base, and have one of the best away followings in the league, but so do West Ham and Leeds.

[Frank Large's Black Book]

Yes, Spurs are one of the biggest clubs in the country - AT THE MOMENT.  The point for them and others is that success is cyclical and is a combination of stability, money and luck.  The Big 2 have had it in spades with their managers but it only takes a wobble and they can fall.  Ole plus the Glazers having money problems at the same time would spell trouble in the same way that us lesser clubs have suffered.  Who would have thought 30 years ago that Newcastle would be in the state they are in?  Let's be honest, if wasn't for Busby, there wouldn't have been a Fergie.

I am sick of the protectionism that FIFA, Uefa, the FA, EPL and EPL continue to espouse - whilst dressing it up as good for the game.  It isn't - IT'S JUST GOOD FOR THEM.

 

FFP was a good idea - but it was taken over by the clubs' self interest and has spawned potential super leagues, and now we have this pigs' breakfast.

It's a disgrace, and I hope that the other EPL teams will have long memories - and in the vernacular that MU and LFC will, in the long term, have p*ssed on their chips

[sdb]

Why do I feel like the future of football as we know it (exciting, competitive, unpredictable) is pretty much solely in the hands of Susan Whelan right now? If anyone can save it, it might just be her.

[Dahnsouff]

38 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Always been the same, a Liverpool supporting mate not long back was desperate for Klopp to play the kids against Shewsbury 'It's not our job to support the smaller clubs, don't overspend', but obviously he's totally fine with this 'project' as it benefits Liverpool. Also was bleating on about how someone should save Bury not long back, but was totally against Newcastle having new owners due to 'human rights'. Another opinion of his is that FFP should be strictly enforced more, so the bigger clubs have more money to spend (basically killing clubs like Man City from competing with them). Some football fans, although they try to take the moral high ground, just care about their team winning, I've got no problem with that, just be honest about it.

Spot on. It irks especially with Liverpool because of their "more than a club" attitude which runs like a righteous poison to its core.

[Babylon]

24 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

People can make up all the nonsense they want about Spurs. As it stands they’re comfortably 1 of the top 6 biggest clubs in this country and are viewed by most of the footballing world as an elite club

"As it stands" being the operative word and which is exactly what people are arguing against. They weren't for the two decades before the one just gone, they were a mid table team. Football is cyclical, or it was anyway. There was another team there instead of them, so why should they get enshrined forever more as a "big six club" when it's only a relatively new phenomenon. 

 

The apparent "big six" want to do away with it being cyclical. They area already getting their way in Europe with some payments no longer even about how you perform but who you are. Every rule change and this new bullshit project is just another attempt to set in concrete the top teams in the league. Everton, Leeds and Villa are every inch what Spurs are and more. They just got their timings wrong and paid for bad management. 

[Aus Fox]

30 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

People can make up all the nonsense they want about Spurs. As it stands they’re comfortably 1 of the top 6 biggest clubs in this country and are viewed by most of the footballing world as an elite club

By what measure are they an elite club? 

[Samilktray]

6 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

By what measure are they an elite club? 

A very impressive stadium and training facilities, consistent European football (champions league up until this year), a champions league final just over a year ago, arguably the best striker in the world (he’s up there at least), a very good squad overall, big worldwide fan base. I don’t know to me they’re a very big club despite the lack of silverware 

[sacreblueits442]

11 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I can just about understand Man U being peeved with having to share wealth and voting rights with a newly promoted club. Whatever is said, they’ve contributed a significant amount to the global appeal of the league. I can even just about understand arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea having those feelings. 
 

but Tottenham - come off it. And I’m not even saying it because it’s Spurs. Very few people are waking up to watch Tottenham ****ing Hotspurs. I’m sorry but they’ve jumped on the bandwagon here and believe their own hype. They have no prestige, no real history and continually get mocked by others in the league. United have Cantona, Liverpool Fowler and spurs ? CHRIS ****ING ARMSTRONG! This is what Henry and the Glaziers are missing - the top 6 changes over time. Villa, Forest, Everton, Leeds and even us have been up at sometime. You can’t restructure a whole league on 5 years of football.

...aren't they the nations second team?

[ealingfox]

5 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

A very impressive stadium and training facilities, consistent European football (champions league up until this year), a champions league final just over a year ago, arguably the best striker in the world (he’s up there at least), a very good squad overall, big worldwide fan base. I don’t know to me they’re a very big club despite the lack of silverware 

 

I know Carlos Vinicius is highly-rated but it's a bit premature to be including him in best striker in the world discussions isn't it?

[Aus Fox]

10 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

A very impressive stadium and training facilities, consistent European football (champions league up until this year), a champions league final just over a year ago, arguably the best striker in the world (he’s up there at least), a very good squad overall, big worldwide fan base. I don’t know to me they’re a very big club despite the lack of silverware 

Surely though, your last sentence is exactly what stops them from being elite. Elite clubs win things, the fact is Spurs since the Premier League began have won less than us. 
They are miles behind Man United Liverpool and Arsenal. And quite a distance behind Man City and Chelsea in Premier League terms. 
On a European level they are not in the light years from the elite clubs.

A big club yes, but no bigger than Aston Villa or Everton they are just having a decent period in their history - although with no actual success.

[Mickyblueeyes]

4 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

A very impressive stadium and training facilities, consistent European football (champions league up until this year), a champions league final just over a year ago, arguably the best striker in the world (he’s up there at least), a very good squad overall, big worldwide fan base. I don’t know to me they’re a very big club despite the lack of silverware 

Big yes, not elite. This project talks about the 6 teams so far ahead that they dictate how club football is run in this country. Villa are a big club. Leeds are a big club. Forest are a big club. To dictate how the league is run, to be set apart from the rest, you need to be bringing something different to the table. Though I don’t agree, I can absolutely understand Liverpool and Man U pulling that card. I can even accept Arsenal and Chelsea pulling it. Spurs are not elite. That’s the difference. I mean we could easily pull out our great training ground and appeal in the Far East and match them in some elements of what’s been quoted. 
 

For me, it’s very hard to get excited about Spurs v Bayern. However, Man U/Liverpool v Barca or Bayern holds a completely different weight. That’s the point. It’s not having a dig at them but they don’t belong in that class of club who should even be considered among the Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal. The global appeal of the those clubs outweighs Spurs. You don’t go to villages in Africa and get told how great Spurs are. You don’t get illegal cable connects in huts to watch Spurs play Southampton. You do for United v Burnley  and Liverpool v Bournemouth. 
 

Two clubs in this country are elite. Man U and Liverpool. Arsenal and Chelsea follow closely behind and Man City are now starting to make waves internationally. Spurs sit behind them. If United or Liverpool leave the PL, we suffer. The global appeal drops significantly. If Spurs leave, no way the same impact. And that’s what it is. They can’t be classed as the gatekeepers of football in England because they’re still are long way from setting themselves apart from the rest of us.

 

No one sits back and hopes their club becomes Spurs. 

[SpacedX]

4 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Surely though, your last sentence is exactly what stops them from being elite. Elite clubs win things, the fact is Spurs since the Premier League began have won less than us. 
They are miles behind Man United Liverpool and Arsenal. And quite a distance behind Man City and Chelsea in Premier League terms. 
On a European level they are not in the light years from the elite clubs.

A big club yes, but no bigger than Aston Villa or Everton they are just having a decent period in their history - although with no actual success.

Spurs were at a pivotal point four seasons ago in which they needed to invest in and consolidate a very promising team. They did everything but. 

[Jattdogg]

4 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I think we will have to agree to disagree. Spurs have developed as a club but they’re no where near “elite” and I’m not just saying that as a dig at them. If they created a European Super League and invited say 4 teams from England, Spurs wouldn’t make the list. 
 

Internationally you go to places like Africa, the Far East and Asia and while Spurs may be known, they don’t have the appeal of Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea - that’s even with Son in the Far East. 
 

Spurs has a great base but to join the club of the elite football clubs in Europe ? Not yet. Not by a long shot. Let’s put it this way if 5 of the perceived big 6 departed and one remain, the appeal of the league would hold more strength if it were any of the other 5 other then Spurs. They’re just not up there. 
 

Like I said, the top 6 clubs changes decade after decade. There’s a certain level of prestige associated with Man U and Liverpool because they’ve dominated both league and Europe. Spurs as a club just about get into the top 6 in this era. I understand the other two having issue with the distribution of wealth because of what they’ve contributed. Spurs can **** off. 

 

 

As most of you know i live in Canada and ive seen 1 spurs shirt in my town. Chances are the lads dad is a spurs fan. When i go around the greater toronto area in more likely to see Rangers, Celtic, Manure, Arsenal, Liverpool and perhaps  Chelsea shirts. Toss in Leicester because two of my brothers are scattered around the GTA.

 

Growing up here in the 90s, 2000s i never saw a spurs top anywhere.

 

Sure this is just the toronto area but its one of the most multi cultural places in the world so you see alot of different tops from around the globe.

 

Spurs are not that popular outside of England as the real top 3 or 4 clubs. Not even close.

 

I think their is confusion with them doing well the last X years and of course picking up some international fans but not even close to the others. If they continue to develop they have a chance to be massive but  we won the league and everyone knows us so you could argue the same .

 

Every time im out in my city top i get people saying things about Leicester, Vardy and want to recognize Leicester. Makes me smile.

Edited 14 October 2020 by Jattdogg

[Out Foxed]

1 hour ago, Samilktray said:

People can make up all the nonsense they want about Spurs. As it stands they’re comfortably 1 of the top 6 biggest clubs in this country and are viewed by most of the footballing world as an elite club

an elite club wins things, especially if they are from a major capital city with the revenue that provides. 

 

spurs pretend to be elite. they ain't. 

[Steve Earle]

56 minutes ago, sdb said:

Why do I feel like the future of football as we know it (exciting, competitive, unpredictable) is pretty much solely in the hands of Susan Whelan right now? If anyone can save it, it might just be her.

Super, super Sue...

[jammie82uk]

26 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

As most of you know i live in Canada and ive seen 1 spurs shirt in my town. Chances are the lads dad is a spurs fan. When i go around the greater toronto area in more likely to see Rangers, Celtic, Manure, Arsenal, Liverpool and perhaps  Chelsea shirts. Toss in Leicester because two of my brothers are scattered around the GTA.

 

Growing up here in the 90s, 2000s i never saw a spurs top anywhere.

 

Sure this is just the toronto area but its one of the most multi cultural places in the world so you see alot of different tops from around the globe.

 

Spurs are not that popular outside of England as the real top 3 or 4 clubs. Not even close.

 

I think their is confusion with them doing well the last X years and of course picking up some international fans but not even close to the others. If they continue to develop they have a chance to be massive but  we won the league and everyone knows us so you could argue the same .

 

Every time im out in my city top i get people saying things about Leicester, Vardy and want to recognize Leicester. Makes me smile.

I went to Las Vegas earlier this year, it was a little chilly in the morning so would wear my City walk out jacket but that only lasted a couple of days as I would get grief about standing around talking Leicester and football in general with random American folk 

The only other shirts I seen while there was Liverpool and Man Utd 

[turtmcfly]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Currently yeah, historically no. Which is more to my point. Why do Spurs deserve to have a say over the likes of Newcastle/Everton/Villa - teams who have won more top flight titles? People can say "oh they last won something years ago" but so did Spurs. Last time Spurs were league champions was the 60's had just started. Why should they be able to tell other clubs, yes inlcuding us, what to do? I mean, we've won the league more recently than them.

 

I'm not even one of these people that think's we are a big club now and I certainly acknowledge the history of Liverpool/Man Utd and, at a push Arsenal, but Spurs? Not for me. New ground and a couple of decent seasons and they're now clased as an elite club? If the PL want to give more rights to certain clubs then they should consider now and history. They have a big fan base, and have one of the best away followings in the league, but so do West Ham and Leeds.

 

Alternatively 'a new 62,000 seater stadium, 11 top 6 finishes on the trot and ranked as fourth biggest UK club in the Deloitte money league'

 

 

 

[Heymister2015]

Big six ? Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal,Leicester and Blackburn? Whos the other one?