The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

[Finnegan]

13 hours ago, StanSP said:

A small clip but a complimentary one nevertheless

 

 

Also now know what Steve Bower looks like  

 

Wrighty has always been a fan. 

 

One of the few pundits back in 15/16 to actually accept we were a good team and not some sort of picture book freak miracle. 

 

He's a fan of Vardy because he recognises he's a top striker not because he's some Roy of the Rovers happy story. 

[mancunianfox]

28 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

He's a fan of Vardy because he recognises he's a top striker not because he's some Roy of the Rovers happy story. 

100%. I think ex-players also tend to have a bias towards players they see themselves in and I reckon Wright must look at Vardy and sees a lot of himself. I mean you don't need to swap much in this quote from Wright's players tribune article do you!!!

 

Quote

Now, you may think you know my story already. Ian Wright didn’t turn professional until he was 21! He worked maintenance at a sugar factory! He spent a month in prison!

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/ian-wright-earning-my-smile

[egg_fried_rice]

https://www.football365.com/news/top-ten-best-english-players-of-the-season-so-far

 

This run down of the top ten best English players of the season so far includes Chilwell and Vardy:

 

9) Ben Chilwell (Leicester)
It’s a mystery why the Leicester defender hasn’t yet been given an extended run in the England side. Southgate likes Danny Rose and you cannot fault the Three Lions’ boss for his loyalty. But Rose’s form and the spectacular contrast to Chilwell’s performances can no longer be ignored.

 

Chilwell is almost freakishly unflappable on the left of Brendan Rodgers’ back four. Defensively, he looks flawless, with all the pace, positional awareness and timing in the tackle that a top-class full-back needs. And for his average height, he is surprisingly strong in the air.

 

Perhaps there is room for improvement going forward. But Chilwell has matched Alexander-Arnold’s assists and goals tally so far this term and only four other defenders have created more chances in open play. Southgate need not look elsewhere for an England left-back.

 

1) Jamie Vardy (Leicester)
Who’s the Premier League’s top scorer? It’s…….. been done to death. Fair enough.

 

The answer to the question is of course a striker no longer available to England. Which is a shame because this Vardy is different to the one who walked away form the international scene. Where Vardy used to hunt his own prey, he now only feasts on whatever his team-mates provide for their centre-forward. No striker with at least five goals has played more minutes this season but none has touched the ball fewer times than Vardy. Sergio Aguero is the next least-active forward and he’s had 40 more touches than the Leicester star in 326 fewer minutes.

 

With so many goals from such little involvement, it goes without saying that Vardy is operating at a higher efficiency rate than anyone else. The 32-year-old has dispatched 48 per cent of his opportunities, which is frankly ridiculous. If Vardy can maintain such ruthlessness and Leicester can continue to tee him up, Leicester really are in business.

 

 

 

[Babylon]

14 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

First time I’ve heard him as a pundit, why the hell does he not get more gigs? Yes he’s saying nice things, but he was thoughtful and actually brought something to the table other than tired cliches.

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

First time I’ve heard him as a pundit, why the hell does he not get more gigs? Yes he’s saying nice things, but he was thoughtful and actually brought something to the table other than tired cliches.

Didn't play for a 'big' club; isn't a banter lad. 

[Foxymcoxy]

12 minutes ago, Babylon said:

First time I’ve heard him as a pundit, why the hell does he not get more gigs? Yes he’s saying nice things, but he was thoughtful and actually brought something to the table other than tired cliches.

Agree he's doing a decent job. He announced his retirement as a player earlier this year, I'm pretty sure live on talksport as part of the announcement of him joining the station. I'm sure more offers will come in time too.

[Babylon]

15 hours ago, Jacnah said:

I enjoyed this., Actually some quite throughtful discussion. I cant disagree that Man U or Arsenal are bigger clubs, but right now I dont think Brendaon would automatically go as one of them was convinced. Maybe in a couple of years if we arent conisistentl challeging.............. 

Rodgers isn’t stupid, we are a stepping stone to something bigger eventually of course we are. But as he did with us, you have to pick the right project, would he have taken over us in the bottom three relying on a load of old players in need of a total transition? No. Did he ignore other jobs before coming to us, yes.

 

He picked us because he saw what we had and the potential, the sort of owners we had, the investment etc. It was the right project at the right time.

 

A lot of those other big jobs need a massive overhaul. So you have to wonder if the time is right. Or someone like Spurs who have realistically over performed in recent years, with lots of players probably questioning their futures. Can you really take them any further?

 

It shouldn’t be looked at like it’s a given her walk to any club just because they are a big club. He needs the right project otherwise his name could get muddied again.

[Gerard]

33 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Rodgers isn’t stupid, we are a stepping stone to something bigger eventually of course we are. But as he did with us, you have to pick the right project, would he have taken over us in the bottom three relying on a load of old players in need of a total transition? No. Did he ignore other jobs before coming to us, yes.

 

He picked us because he saw what we had and the potential, the sort of owners we had, the investment etc. It was the right project at the right time.

 

A lot of those other big jobs need a massive overhaul. So you have to wonder if the time is right. Or someone like Spurs who have realistically over performed in recent years, with lots of players probably questioning their futures. Can you really take them any further?

 

It shouldn’t be looked at like it’s a given her walk to any club just because they are a big club. He needs the right project otherwise his name could get muddied again.

 

I remember Andy Gray commenting on Martin O'Neill when it was touch an go if he was going to leave Leicester. He said "Martin O'Neill will ask himself has he took these players and this club as far as they can go and if the answer is yes then he's half way to making his decision".

 

I'm not saying BR wouldn't leave us for an elite level club but part of his decision process would be "how much more can he get out of this group of players, can he keep this squad together and will he get the funds to improve the squad"?  Considering the age of this team and we're now even money to qualify for the Champions League which vastly improves our chances of keeping this team together, the new training ground and the transfer kitty he'll get is not a million miles away from some elite clubs then it becomes a difficult decision.

 

He could end up going to an Arsenal or Man Utd which is a difficult three year job and he's under pressure to deliver straight the way with what might well be inferior players than he has here. BR may well want to stay as long as he feels he can keep moving this club forward and still believes we haven't hit our ceiling. If he believes he can improve and get even more out of these players and really enjoying the process then that's a really difficult job to leave.

Edited 5 November 2019 by Gerard

[Happy Fox]

I reckon he will move abroad after managing us, probably Spain.

[Tommo220]

53 minutes ago, Babylon said:

First time I’ve heard him as a pundit, why the hell does he not get more gigs? Yes he’s saying nice things, but he was thoughtful and actually brought something to the table other than tired cliches.

i thought the same thing.  comes across as quite insightful, just a shame Durham had to stick his oar in.

[StanSP]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Wrighty has always been a fan. 

 

One of the few pundits back in 15/16 to actually accept we were a good team and not some sort of picture book freak miracle. 

 

He's a fan of Vardy because he recognises he's a top striker not because he's some Roy of the Rovers happy story. 

Totally agree. Wright's always been a fan of us and our individuals and I've always been a fan of him. 

He's one of very few back then that truly recognised the talent we had and what made us tick. 

 

Even when he's not talking about us I do enjoy listening to him as a pundit. Just says it straight but not in a rude way. 

[Foxxed]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2019/nov/05/david-squires-on-pep-guardiola-mind-games-jurgen-klopp-jose-mourinho

 

Featuring Vardy, Barnes and the term "interprative shithousery".

[mazarron fox]

7 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Totally agree. Wright's always been a fan of us and our individuals and I've always been a fan of him. 

He's one of very few back then that truly recognised the talent we had and what made us tick. 

 

Even when he's not talking about us I do enjoy listening to him as a pundit. Just says it straight but not in a rude way. 

Have met Ian Wright spent a day in his company and he is a genuinely nice bloke, likes a joke and his personality is exactly as it comes over on TV. 

[Finnegan]

12 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Totally agree. Wright's always been a fan of us and our individuals and I've always been a fan of him. 

He's one of very few back then that truly recognised the talent we had and what made us tick. 

 

Even when he's not talking about us I do enjoy listening to him as a pundit. Just says it straight but not in a rude way. 

 

Yeah I like him. 

 

To be honest, I even like the fact he calls Arsenal "us" and has absolutely zero pretense to be neutral. 

 

Somehow it almost enables him to be more critical of Arsenal and more honest in his assessment of them as well. People like Danny Murphy are so ridiculously biased towards Liverpool and Spurs whilst trying desperately to deny they are and it almost makes them more bitter and entrenched. 

 

Wrighty is just completely open and honest with where he stands. He's really not overly blinded by his bias at all. 

[Steven]

1 hour ago, egg_fried_rice said:

With so many goals from such little involvement, it goes without saying that Vardy is operating at a higher efficiency rate than anyone else. The 32-year-old has dispatched 48 per cent of his opportunities, which is frankly ridiculous. If Vardy can maintain such ruthlessness and Leicester can continue to tee him up, Leicester really are in business.

Not one in two games but one in two chances. 

[urban fox]

39 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

I remember Andy Gray commenting on Martin O'Neill when it was touch an go if he was going to leave Leicester. He said "Martin O'Neill will ask himself has he took these players and this club as far as they can go and if the answer is yes then he's half way to making his decision".

 

I'm not saying BR wouldn't leave us for an elite level club but part of his decision process would be "how much more can he get out of this group of players, can he keep this squad together and will he get the funds to improve the squad"?  Considering the age of this team and we're now even money to qualify for the Champions League which vastly improves our chances of keeping this team together, the new training ground and the transfer kitty he'll get is not a million miles away from some elite clubs then it becomes a difficult decision.

 

He could end up going to an Arsenal or Man Utd which is a difficult three year job and he's under pressure to deliver straight the way with what might well be inferior players than he has here. BR may well want to stay as long as he feels he can keep moving this club forward and still believes we haven't hit our ceiling. If he believes he can improve and get even more out of these players and really enjoying the process then that's a really difficult job to leave.

I think this is the question all managers will ask themselves at some point in their careers. He (Rodgers) will get far more Kudos and recognition taking us to the Champions league, establishing us as regular competitors and hopefully winning silverware, over the next couple of seasons than he ever would taking over one of the established "big" clubs where that is the expectation rather than the aspiration. Claudio will forever go down in the clubs history as a legend but could not sustain it due to the fact that he had an ageing squad and could not transition us. In other words he had taken us as far as he could with what he had at that time. Similarly MON assembled a good side but did not have the wherewithal or resources to take them to the next level. Rodgers on the other hand, has inherited a talented, youthful squad that he is now moulding into a fantastic team, playing attractive and effective football. He also has the backing of a fantastic senior management team and the resources to improve and keep performing at a consistent level for the foreseeable future. At this point in time therefore the question is somewhat irrelevant as we do not know just how far we can go. The time may come when he will no doubt ask himself that question (and no doubt the board will also ask the same question of him as a manager). If we are still competing in the upper echelons of the PL, regular European qualification and cups, then he may well feel that he might be on the brink of forming a new dynasty and decide to stay with the project long term. If on the other hand we fail to fulfill the potential that we all know is there, then perhaps he (or others) may decide that he is not the right man for the job.

[Guest SO1]

19 minutes ago, urban fox said:

I think this is the question all managers will ask themselves at some point in their careers. He (Rodgers) will get far more Kudos and recognition taking us to the Champions league, establishing us as regular competitors and hopefully winning silverware, over the next couple of seasons than he ever would taking over one of the established "big" clubs where that is the expectation rather than the aspiration. Claudio will forever go down in the clubs history as a legend but could not sustain it due to the fact that he had an ageing squad and could not transition us. In other words he had taken us as far as he could with what he had at that time. Similarly MON assembled a good side but did not have the wherewithal or resources to take them to the next level. Rodgers on the other hand, has inherited a talented, youthful squad that he is now moulding into a fantastic team, playing attractive and effective football. He also has the backing of a fantastic senior management team and the resources to improve and keep performing at a consistent level for the foreseeable future. At this point in time therefore the question is somewhat irrelevant as we do not know just how far we can go. The time may come when he will no doubt ask himself that question (and no doubt the board will also ask the same question of him as a manager). If we are still competing in the upper echelons of the PL, regular European qualification and cups, then he may well feel that he might be on the brink of forming a new dynasty and decide to stay with the project long term. If on the other hand we fail to fulfill the potential that we all know is there, then perhaps he (or others) may decide that he is not the right man for the job.

Thanks for such simplicity in statement. Agree completely.

It's a minefield that the whole of the club are walking through as they build success(see United/Arsenal). Will be interesting to watch as it all plays out

[Leeds Fox]

1 hour ago, urban fox said:

I think this is the question all managers will ask themselves at some point in their careers. He (Rodgers) will get far more Kudos and recognition taking us to the Champions league, establishing us as regular competitors and hopefully winning silverware, over the next couple of seasons than he ever would taking over one of the established "big" clubs where that is the expectation rather than the aspiration. Claudio will forever go down in the clubs history as a legend but could not sustain it due to the fact that he had an ageing squad and could not transition us. In other words he had taken us as far as he could with what he had at that time. Similarly MON assembled a good side but did not have the wherewithal or resources to take them to the next level. Rodgers on the other hand, has inherited a talented, youthful squad that he is now moulding into a fantastic team, playing attractive and effective football. He also has the backing of a fantastic senior management team and the resources to improve and keep performing at a consistent level for the foreseeable future. At this point in time therefore the question is somewhat irrelevant as we do not know just how far we can go. The time may come when he will no doubt ask himself that question (and no doubt the board will also ask the same question of him as a manager). If we are still competing in the upper echelons of the PL, regular European qualification and cups, then he may well feel that he might be on the brink of forming a new dynasty and decide to stay with the project long term. If on the other hand we fail to fulfill the potential that we all know is there, then perhaps he (or others) may decide that he is not the right man for the job.

 

Regarding the quality of our youthful team; if we managed to keep them together for the next 4/5 years (I know it won’t happen but stay with me) and replaced our older players effectively. We would genuinely be one of the best teams in Europe. That is how good this lot are. 

[urban fox]

25 minutes ago, SO1 said:

Thanks for such simplicity in statement. Agree completely.

It's a minefield that the whole of the club are walking through as they build success(see United/Arsenal). Will be interesting to watch as it all plays out

 

3 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

Regarding the quality of our youthful team; if we managed to keep them together for the next 4/5 years (I know it won’t happen but stay with me) and replaced our older players effectively. We would genuinely be one of the best teams in Europe. That is how good this lot are. 

I think you have both managed to summarise what I was trying to put across very succinctly.  We are discussing whether Rodgers would be tempted away, and there are other threads asking the same about our players, all of which not helped by the media speculation driven in turn by their over cosy relationship with the "big" clubs and their desire to maintain the status quo.  It really is a chicken and egg situation. Success breeds success, but you have to start somewhere. I would like to think that the way the club is run, the bond that seems to be there throughout all levels, will be enough to glue it all together until we actually get that success which hopefully will then be self perpetuating. In 2016, our recruitment was poor, and despite a great CL campaign it was obvious from struggles in the league that we had not reached that level of sustainability that was needed to attract top talent. We have learnt from those mistakes and hopefully this time round things will be different.

[Raw Dykes]

2 hours ago, mazarron fox said:

Have met Ian Wright spent a day in his company and he is a genuinely nice bloke, likes a joke and his personality is exactly as it comes over on TV. 

I'm not surprised in the least. I can tell he's sound. Seems like a good laugh and a nice person. Should be more pundits like him.

[OntarioFox]

2 hours ago, Happy Fox said:

I reckon he will move abroad after managing us, probably Spain.

Decent shout tbh - a quick look at his managerial history tells you how fond he is of Spanish football and highlights the influence the tiki-taka system had on his development. In theory, he could play a style like ours with ease at a lot of the mid-table sides who still employ that approach, given that it's been coached into players at La Liga clubs from youth level upwards in recent times.

My only qualm would be that Spanish football itself seems to be moving on tactically with less emphasis on possession-based football and more teams having joy playing high-press countering football, led by Atletico and now even the national team. With that in mind I'm not sure how big a gig he'd end up getting, or how effective the approach would be. The only real big boy I see as a fit for Brendan's style in 2019 is Barcelona, and let's be real, he'll have to do something really special with us to turn their head next time they need a new manager. Beyond that, maybe Real Sociedad, who are flying early doors this season, but they're hardly the step-up we're expecting him to make when he leaves and even they are getting their plaudits for a high-press, counter attacking style rather than a dominant possession-based approach this year.

 

Not that I doubt he could develop a hybrid of the two systems fairly quickly and have some success - after all, he's turned our fortunes practically overnight and all he really needed to do was inject a bit of urgency and bite into our play while also implementing the good aspects of our old style after two years playing ponderous, go-nowhere shite. I just don't know how effective it would be at this point when the teams showing the greatest improvement are the ones playing a more direct style, primarily because teams playing the "old" Spanish way are finding it hard to deal with pace, physicality and a constant threat while in posession. But again, intensiteeee (sorry Claude) seems to be the difference for us at present, so maybe I'm wrong and Brendan's ability to get an extra 10% out of his troops each game will allow him to create a juggernaut that wins silverware every year. Or maybe not. Who knows until he tries? He can't do any worse than Gary Neville did.

 

 

(This post ended up being about as clear as a keynote speech from David Brent, sorry) 

[Langston]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

First time I’ve heard him as a pundit, why the hell does he not get more gigs? Yes he’s saying nice things, but he was thoughtful and actually brought something to the table other than tired cliches.

 

He's on Sky's EFL coverage quite a bit

[Guest SO1]

2 minutes ago, urban fox said:

 

I think you have both managed to summarise what I was trying to put across very succinctly.  We are discussing whether Rodgers would be tempted away, and there are other threads asking the same about our players, all of which not helped by the media speculation driven in turn by their over cosy relationship with the "big" clubs and their desire to maintain the status quo.  It really is a chicken and egg situation. Success breeds success, but you have to start somewhere. I would like to think that the way the club is run, the bond that seems to be there throughout all levels, will be enough to glue it all together until we actually get that success which hopefully will then be self perpetuating. In 2016, our recruitment was poor, and despite a great CL campaign it was obvious from struggles in the league that we had not reached that level of sustainability that was needed to attract top talent. We have learnt from those mistakes and hopefully this time round things will be different.

I'm just going to send you my ideas and you can put them into writing. Saves me a lot of time.

Been trying to find a way to write about these issues and keep on getting bogged down by the infinite variables/problems to be solved.

As you say this is a tight very well run club. If it stays that way great things can be achieved here. Patience will be needed.

[Raw Dykes]

25 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

Regarding the quality of our youthful team; if we managed to keep them together for the next 4/5 years (I know it won’t happen but stay with me) and replaced our older players effectively. We would genuinely be one of the best teams in Europe. That is how good this lot are. 

I think you might be right.

 

There's so much to be optimistic about. Most of the first XI are around 22. They'll be coming into their prime in about 4 years. Although it's very early days, they're already challenging at the top of the table, so it's actually a bit scary what they could be capable of in a few years' time if they stay together. There may well be one or two who move on each season, but I'm not too worried about this, and for a few reasons. We've shown we won't be pushed around. Players leave on our terms and we get the fee we want. We don't tend to lose more than one big player per season. Our recruitment is so strong that we can often replace players with similar or better quality without breaking the bank. Also, the more success we have, the less likely players will want to jump ship. On top of all that, clubs like Man Utd and Arsenal look less appealing these days. If that trend continues, then there's even less chance we'll be losing players to domestic rivals.

 

I can't find too much to worry about going wrong, either. The main thing is the manager. It won't be easy to replace Rodgers should he leave, although he is showing everyone the quality in this squad, and there will be a lot of managers around who think it might be an easy, low-pressure gig to get. It looks easy to over-achieve here, I'm sure. I think there will be a bigger pool of good managers to pick from than there was when we appointed Brendan.

 

That podcast with Paul Balsom was very reassuring. Listening to that, it was clear to me that the people behind the scenes really know what they're doing. The club is set up so that the manager isn't able to rip everything up. It sounds like the scouting, training and sports science we have is world class, and it's set in stone. The club's foundations are rock solid.

 

In case you haven't heard it, here's the podcast... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/8-paul-balsom-to-premier-league-beyond-leicester-city/id1458881321?i=1000455600782

 

It could all go tits-up, of course, but I'm a Leicester fan. For most of my life, that's been the norm. So be it if that happens. However, this is an unbelievably good time to follow the club, and I'm going to allow myself to get a little bit carried away sometimes.

[Koke]

Allardyce claims he could have signed Vardy for West Ham.

 

He said: “When I was at West Ham and I needed some goals Mickey Mellon, who played for me, he’s a brilliant manager and he is at Tranmere now.

 

“But he rang me up and he said ‘We can’t sign Jamie Vardy; he won’t stay with us Sam. Give us a million quid and it will be the best signing you have ever made..

 

'And that was quite a bit of money for a non-league player, I’m talking 2011, in my first season at West Ham.

 

“I just wondered if Jamie could jump out of the conference and come in for our first year of the Premier League.

 

“So I didn’t do it and I have been kicking myself ever since because he went to Leicester instead with Nigel [Pearson] and [Craig Shakespeare] Shakey.”

Edited 6 November 2019 by Koke