The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

[JJD_LCFC]

44 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

The Benjamin/Collymore story gives me a further indication that Peter Taylor’s man-management skills were atrocious. Two players had a falling out (over a game, not off the field stuff) and he gets rid of the one who, quoting Piper “looked like Zidane” out of position! Manage the situation man, get the guys in the office the next day and tell them to work it out. 
 

He failed miserably here not only because of his piss poor transfer record but because of his ego issue with big characters. Considering the squad he knew he was taking over, he really was a bad choice. We were filled with eccentric characters. He did the same with Cottee and Walsh when both could’ve been valuable voices in that dressing room when the shit hit the fan. 
 

Maybe I just want to have a dig at Taylor because that video brought up some bad memories from a difficult period for the club (I still remember when the Piper deal was announced and I was absolutely gutted). 

You have a very valid point of Peter Taylor time at our club. Certainly was the start of a massive downward spiral. But, potentially without this time we would not have had the success of recent years. Plus the league 1 and championship titles, even the heartbreaking Watford game are incredible moments for our football club. You are not wrong Taylor was woefully out of his depth and no wonder few years after us he was not even in jobs in the conference. Good with the bad I guess. 

[Toddybad]

1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

The Benjamin/Collymore story gives me a further indication that Peter Taylor’s man-management skills were atrocious. Two players had a falling out (over a game, not off the field stuff) and he gets rid of the one who, quoting Piper “looked like Zidane” out of position! Manage the situation man, get the guys in the office the next day and tell them to work it out. 
 

He failed miserably here not only because of his piss poor transfer record but because of his ego issue with big characters. Considering the squad he knew he was taking over, he really was a bad choice. We were filled with eccentric characters. He did the same with Cottee and Walsh when both could’ve been valuable voices in that dressing room when the shit hit the fan. 
 

Maybe I just want to have a dig at Taylor because that video brought up some bad memories from a difficult period for the club (I still remember when the Piper deal was announced and I was absolutely gutted). 

Peter Taylor should have been sacked before a ball was kicked in his name. The second he handed the board his list of transfer priorities they should have cleared his desk.

I was at uni at the time and remember reading the paper each day at the players coming in and just knowing it was going to be a disaster.

And it was.

Even when we were second in the first few weeks/months it was clear something wasn't right. We didn't deserve to be there. The old guard were seeing us through. The collapse didn't happen post Wycombe, we were falling apart well before that.

The hangover from his time here led all the way through to league 1 imo. We never really recovered even when briefly coming back up.

That **** nearly destroyed my club.

Edited 16 April 2020 by Toddybad

[Webbo]

What I was told at the time about the Collymore/Trev incident that Collymore called trev a lazy fat n-word. He was bang out of order.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

What I was told at the time about the Collymore/Trev incident that Collymore called trev a lazy fat n-word. He was bang out of order.

 

I heard that as well, recently, via someone that knows Piper. Collymore is a ****.

[Ashley]

11 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

I heard that as well, recently, via someone that knows Piper. Collymore is a ****.

He hits women so yeah makes sense. 

[StanSP]

JOURNALISTE!!

[Captain...]

On 16/04/2020 at 14:30, Mickyblueeyes said:

 

He failed miserably here not only because of his piss poor transfer record but because of his ego issue with big characters. Considering the squad he knew he was taking over, he really was a bad choice. We were filled with eccentric characters. He did the same with Cottee and Walsh when both could’ve been valuable voices in that dressing room when the shit hit the fan. 

We should remind people of this when they are banging on about getting rid of Morgan, King and Albrighton. They might not be first choice on the pitch but add value off it.

[Corky]

On 16/04/2020 at 14:30, Mickyblueeyes said:

The Benjamin/Collymore story gives me a further indication that Peter Taylor’s man-management skills were atrocious. Two players had a falling out (over a game, not off the field stuff) and he gets rid of the one who, quoting Piper “looked like Zidane” out of position! Manage the situation man, get the guys in the office the next day and tell them to work it out. 
 

He failed miserably here not only because of his piss poor transfer record but because of his ego issue with big characters. Considering the squad he knew he was taking over, he really was a bad choice. We were filled with eccentric characters. He did the same with Cottee and Walsh when both could’ve been valuable voices in that dressing room when the shit hit the fan. 
 

Maybe I just want to have a dig at Taylor because that video brought up some bad memories from a difficult period for the club (I still remember when the Piper deal was announced and I was absolutely gutted). 

In 12 months we'd gone from Heskey, Lennon, Cottee, Collymore to Benjamin, Lewis and Lee Marshall being part of the first team.

 

Never feel bad about having a dig at Taylor.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Weren't we heavily linked with George Graham after O'Neill? I know he was winding down by then but he'd have been ideal for a couple of seasons.

[Rain King]

4 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

Weren't we heavily linked with George Graham after O'Neill? I know he was winding down by then but he'd have been ideal for a couple of seasons.

Wasn't Redknapp all but sealed?

[Corky]

13 minutes ago, pds said:

Wasn't Redknapp all but sealed?

That was after Taylor left.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

5 hours ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

Weren't we heavily linked with George Graham after O'Neill? I know he was winding down by then but he'd have been ideal for a couple of seasons.

The disgraced George Graham? 
 

But I doubt it - he was still employed by Tottenham at the time Taylor took over.

 

In fact - wasn’t it Graham’s Spurs side Leicester played when the “Don’t Go” signs were held up when O’Neil had been heavily linked with Leeds?

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

2 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

The disgraced George Graham? 
 

But I doubt it - he was still employed by Tottenham at the time Taylor took over.

 

In fact - wasn’t it Graham’s Spurs side Leicester played when the “Don’t Go” signs were held up when O’Neil had been heavily linked with Leeds?

 

Quick Google, it was post Taylor he was linked with us

[davieG]

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-united-sleeping-giant-leicester-18097837

 

Newcastle United are the sleeping giant Leicester City's masterplan can revive after takeover
The takeover will be celebrated across English football, but soon attention will turn to what lays in store for the short-term and long-term future of Newcastle United

ByJordan BlackwellGeorge Smith
14:00, 19 APR 2020

The seventh part of our series looking at the lessons Newcastle United could learn from previous Premier League takeovers turns our attentions to Leicester City.

We have pulled together key views from each of the club reporters from our sister titles who have covered recent takeovers, from Liverpool to Arsenal, Manchester City to Chelsea and more.

What lessons are to be learned from the experience at the King Power Stadium?

Should Newcastle United's takeover go through as hoped, it will signal the start of a new era at St James' Park.

The deal is, according to reports, edging ever closer to being completed with the Premier League said to be working on approving the deal.

The takeover may well be celebrated across English football, but soon attention will turn to what lays in store for the short-term and long-term future of the Magpies.

As well as that, there are still plenty of mistakes that the new owners must avoid from happening.

As news of the takeover developed, we quizzed football writers from across the Premier League on their experiences under new ownership - and now it is Leicester City's turn.

We have spoken to Leicester Mercury reporter Jordan Blackwell to grill him on life at the King Power Stadium and how the Magpies may be possible to replicate their recent success.

What lessons do you think the new Newcastle owners can learn from the King Power takeover at Leicester?

It sounds simple but so many clubs fail to do it that it's worth mentioning: put the fans first. If supporters feel they are valued by the owners, their love for the club grows, prompting a better, happier atmosphere at the ground, that no doubt leads to improved performances on the pitch and more money spent in the club shop.

The Leicester owners have done this terrifically. There have been small gestures, like free cupcakes and beer, to slightly more significant ones, like subsidised away travel, frozen season-ticket prices, and donations to local causes.

The bar is set so low for owners now that even these acts garner goodwill from fans towards those in charge. If owners are willing to invest, that helps too, and shows fans they are not there simply to scrape money out of the club. King Power have allowed successive Leicester managers to make big-money signings over recent years (even if key players have also been sold on), while a new £100m training ground is due to open this summer.

How do you think a newly-powerful Newcastle in the transfer market could affect Leicester?

In the short-term, I don't feel there would be too much of an impact on Leicester. There is a clear sense of a project under Brendan Rodgers. Leicester are a club on the up and, in the next transfer window, should have Champions League football to offer.

No, they cannot pay the same wages as most of the other sides in the top six, but they have a lot going for them.A newly-minted Newcastle would have big wages to offer, and a great city, but I think footballers are not as materialistic as they are sometimes portrayed. Plenty will want to see Newcastle prove they are working to a plan before jumping to the north east.

 
Leicester's 2016 title win, after a great escape the season before, will forever stand out as the greatest achievement of King Power's ownership. How much was that feat a combination of unique factors and timing and to what extent can Newcastle's owners and their fans hope to replicate Leicester... and how would they go about doing that?

Everything went Leicester's way that season. They happened upon a unique style of play that they were quick to master and that other clubs could not cope with. They suffered no key injuries.

The big clubs were in transition. And those are just a few of the many factors. It is near impossible for any club to replicate, no matter the ownership. It certainly wasn't through heavy investment that Leicester triumphed – the most expensive player in the regular starting line-up was £7m Shinji Okazaki.

The biggest impact the owners had was that the players felt their belief in them. However, I think Newcastle could hope to replicate the path Leicester have taken since winning the title. Besides the transfer window immediately after the title success, Leicester have made smart investments in players and coaching staff and have gradually improved, transitioning to a style of play, first through Claude Puel and now through Rodgers, that is more likely to sustain them at the top.

A flash-in-the-pan title has too many uncontrollables for it to be replicated, but a patient rise to the upper echelons is more than doable for a Newcastle side backed by clever investment.

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, davieG said:

The takeover will be celebrated across English football

Tone deaf.

 

One of the most repressive regimes in the world has embarked on a sports washing course, hooray, that’s so much better than a bloke that underinvests.

 

Not even taken them over yet and Newcastle fans have got Saudi flags in their twitter handles because Karrimor is worse than Khashoggi getting cut up into pieces ffs. 

Edited 19 April 2020 by Stadt

[Corky]

Is English football desperate for Mike Ashley to sell up? I understand the fans annoyance but I doubt many are hugely bothered beyond Newcastle fans.

 

And if the new owners supposedly are going to make Newcastle a force again, why would other fans be pleased? 

 

An odd comment.

[Mickyblueeyes]

On 17/04/2020 at 19:07, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

Weren't we heavily linked with George Graham after O'Neill? I know he was winding down by then but he'd have been ideal for a couple of seasons.

I remember Graham as the standout candidate. He was linked a few times after as well. 

 

Just found this article too:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_carling_premiership/780885.stm

 

Apparently, we held talks with Huddersfield Town manager, Steve Bruce. Joe Kinnear who left Wimbledon due to health issues but had taken them into the Top 6 of the Premier League. Cottee and Walsh. Also a young up and coming manager from Preston, David Moyes. 

 

Any of those above would've done a better job then Taylor. 

[davieG]

34 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I remember Graham as the standout candidate. He was linked a few times after as well. 

 

Just found this article too:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_carling_premiership/780885.stm

 

Apparently, we held talks with Huddersfield Town manager, Steve Bruce. Joe Kinnear who left Wimbledon due to health issues but had taken them into the Top 6 of the Premier League. Cottee and Walsh. Also a young up and coming manager from Preston, David Moyes. 

 

Any of those above would've done a better job then Taylor. 

No manager (literally) would have done better than Taylor.

[ealingfox]

47 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I remember Graham as the standout candidate. He was linked a few times after as well. 

 

Just found this article too:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_carling_premiership/780885.stm

 

Apparently, we held talks with Huddersfield Town manager, Steve Bruce. Joe Kinnear who left Wimbledon due to health issues but had taken them into the Top 6 of the Premier League. Cottee and Walsh. Also a young up and coming manager from Preston, David Moyes. 

 

Any of those above would've done a better job then Taylor. 

 

Interesting. In hindsight I think Moyes would have proved a good appointment.

[Footballwipe]

I feel like you could write a book on the 2000-2002 period of Leicester City.

 

When you look back now it seems that the club were determined to keep with this strategy of "bright young manager" which had worked with Little, McGhee and O'Neill, and yet they picked completely the wrong person for the task in someone who was an entirely different character.

 

He bombed out Cottee & Walsh, kicked Collymore to the kerb as soon as possible and inadequately replaced them at every opportunity which seems to suggest he didn't want any big characters. The established stars were stuffed with massive contracts (weren't Elliott and Izzet on £30k a week?) which ensured they'd be toeing the line.

 

Look at his 00/01 list of signings, only two Premiership players in there, and that was bloody Matt Jones and Dean Sturridge. Think of the strikers who moved that summer, who (in my fantasy world) could've been potential marquee replacements for Heskey... Hartson, Gudjohnson, Bellamy, Wanchope, Weah/Suker (imagine one of them joining for a year!), Viduka, Sutton. All of those moved for fees in and around the £5-6m mark.

 

Then there's the astonishing erosion of away form from November of that season after the incredible start, the bringing in of Mancini for no reason, the outrageous decision to award a new contract to a man who had lost nine games in a row just months previous.

 

It's genuinely a fascinating period of our history, despite it being a depressing one. How could we get it so wrong? I have all the back issues of The Fox fanzine from that period, I might do a bit of light reading this evening and see what people made of it all.

 

 

[yorkie1999]

On 19/04/2020 at 15:40, davieG said:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-united-sleeping-giant-leicester-18097837

 

Newcastle United are the sleeping giant Leicester City's masterplan can revive after takeover
The takeover will be celebrated across English football, but soon attention will turn to what lays in store for the short-term and long-term future of Newcastle United

ByJordan BlackwellGeorge Smith
14:00, 19 APR 2020

The seventh part of our series looking at the lessons Newcastle United could learn from previous Premier League takeovers turns our attentions to Leicester City.

We have pulled together key views from each of the club reporters from our sister titles who have covered recent takeovers, from Liverpool to Arsenal, Manchester City to Chelsea and more.

What lessons are to be learned from the experience at the King Power Stadium?

Should Newcastle United's takeover go through as hoped, it will signal the start of a new era at St James' Park.

The deal is, according to reports, edging ever closer to being completed with the Premier League said to be working on approving the deal.

The takeover may well be celebrated across English football, but soon attention will turn to what lays in store for the short-term and long-term future of the Magpies.

As well as that, there are still plenty of mistakes that the new owners must avoid from happening.

As news of the takeover developed, we quizzed football writers from across the Premier League on their experiences under new ownership - and now it is Leicester City's turn.

We have spoken to Leicester Mercury reporter Jordan Blackwell to grill him on life at the King Power Stadium and how the Magpies may be possible to replicate their recent success.

What lessons do you think the new Newcastle owners can learn from the King Power takeover at Leicester?

It sounds simple but so many clubs fail to do it that it's worth mentioning: put the fans first. If supporters feel they are valued by the owners, their love for the club grows, prompting a better, happier atmosphere at the ground, that no doubt leads to improved performances on the pitch and more money spent in the club shop.

The Leicester owners have done this terrifically. There have been small gestures, like free cupcakes and beer, to slightly more significant ones, like subsidised away travel, frozen season-ticket prices, and donations to local causes.

The bar is set so low for owners now that even these acts garner goodwill from fans towards those in charge. If owners are willing to invest, that helps too, and shows fans they are not there simply to scrape money out of the club. King Power have allowed successive Leicester managers to make big-money signings over recent years (even if key players have also been sold on), while a new £100m training ground is due to open this summer.

How do you think a newly-powerful Newcastle in the transfer market could affect Leicester?

In the short-term, I don't feel there would be too much of an impact on Leicester. There is a clear sense of a project under Brendan Rodgers. Leicester are a club on the up and, in the next transfer window, should have Champions League football to offer.

No, they cannot pay the same wages as most of the other sides in the top six, but they have a lot going for them.A newly-minted Newcastle would have big wages to offer, and a great city, but I think footballers are not as materialistic as they are sometimes portrayed. Plenty will want to see Newcastle prove they are working to a plan before jumping to the north east.

 
Leicester's 2016 title win, after a great escape the season before, will forever stand out as the greatest achievement of King Power's ownership. How much was that feat a combination of unique factors and timing and to what extent can Newcastle's owners and their fans hope to replicate Leicester... and how would they go about doing that?

Everything went Leicester's way that season. They happened upon a unique style of play that they were quick to master and that other clubs could not cope with. They suffered no key injuries.

The big clubs were in transition. And those are just a few of the many factors. It is near impossible for any club to replicate, no matter the ownership. It certainly wasn't through heavy investment that Leicester triumphed – the most expensive player in the regular starting line-up was £7m Shinji Okazaki.

The biggest impact the owners had was that the players felt their belief in them. However, I think Newcastle could hope to replicate the path Leicester have taken since winning the title. Besides the transfer window immediately after the title success, Leicester have made smart investments in players and coaching staff and have gradually improved, transitioning to a style of play, first through Claude Puel and now through Rodgers, that is more likely to sustain them at the top.

A flash-in-the-pan title has too many uncontrollables for it to be replicated, but a patient rise to the upper echelons is more than doable for a Newcastle side backed by clever investment.

Can't see it myself. I don't think the premier league really lends itself to patience, we we're lucky enough to start to build a team without the pressure of the premiership. And i thought Ulloa was our most expensive player.  

[Corky]

6 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

I feel like you could write a book on the 2000-2002 period of Leicester City.

 

When you look back now it seems that the club were determined to keep with this strategy of "bright young manager" which had worked with Little, McGhee and O'Neill, and yet they picked completely the wrong person for the task in someone who was an entirely different character.

 

He bombed out Cottee & Walsh, kicked Collymore to the kerb as soon as possible and inadequately replaced them at every opportunity which seems to suggest he didn't want any big characters. The established stars were stuffed with massive contracts (weren't Elliott and Izzet on £30k a week?) which ensured they'd be toeing the line.

 

Look at his 00/01 list of signings, only two Premiership players in there, and that was bloody Matt Jones and Dean Sturridge. Think of the strikers who moved that summer, who (in my fantasy world) could've been potential marquee replacements for Heskey... Hartson, Gudjohnson, Bellamy, Wanchope, Weah/Suker (imagine one of them joining for a year!), Viduka, Sutton. All of those moved for fees in and around the £5-6m mark.

 

Then there's the astonishing erosion of away form from November of that season after the incredible start, the bringing in of Mancini for no reason, the outrageous decision to award a new contract to a man who had lost nine games in a row just months previous.

 

It's genuinely a fascinating period of our history, despite it being a depressing one. How could we get it so wrong? I have all the back issues of The Fox fanzine from that period, I might do a bit of light reading this evening and see what people made of it all.

 

 

I could just about understand keeping him on in 2001, we had a disgusting end to the season but he was fairly new, learning etc so maybe that was a mitigation. Plus we'd been burned by losing McGhee quickly before O'Neill and maybe didn't want that upheaval.

 

The bigger problem begins when you lose 5-0 at home to the play-off winners (not even the best of the promoted teams) in the first game. Where the fvck do you go from there? You give him the backing, more money to spend to then sack him after one match? So we through stubbornness or delusion kept him on for two months, the morale had gone completely and we looked finished by October, despite a couple of brief periods of half decent form.

 

They really should've changed in the summer but definitely 10 minutes after the Bolton match. Keeping him on wasted time and helped to seal our fate. QPR did a similar thing with Mark Hughes in 2012 (5-0 first day defeat) and stuck with him- end result was the same, relegated well before the final game.

[urban.spaceman]

 

[Babylon]

On 17/04/2020 at 19:25, Corky said:

That was after Taylor left.

Nope, Harry first first choice. He agreed to join us but changed his mind on the drive home as it was so far away. We then got Taylor, we've been linked to Harry several times but the time is was basically all sealed was just before Taylor. 

[Danizen]

5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

I love how they've dressed it up as they 'went down fighting'. Most of the bookings happened in the last 15 minutes. They were being somewhat professional until the equaliser...then ALL the toys came out of the pram.