The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

[Cecchini1976]

1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

"You don't get given respect you have to earn it". 

 

How many top 6's or trophies do we need to win to earn respect? It seems to me that respect is unrelated to how much coverage we get or how the 'experts' look down on us. Don't expect anything to change for a long, long time if ever unless the club somehow generates increased worldwide viewing figures. 

The only way to be one of the so called big buys is continued success, so for 4-5 years in the top 4, trophies etc, that is what all the current big 6 have a history of. Whilst our history is more of a yo yo club. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

When fans go on about us "moving to the next level" I see it as challenging in and around the top six for a few years, getting more European experience, rather than "next level" being winning the title.

Maybe I have lower expectations than most though.

[Rusko187]

9 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

When fans go on about us "moving to the next level" I see it as challenging in and around the top six for a few years, getting more European experience, rather than "next level" being winning the title.

Maybe I have lower expectations than most though.

To consistently finish within top 6 and to at least put a challenge on for top 4 would be magnificent... really instead of a "good season" finish is X, it should be "expectation is this, anything less is a failure" but that will take time.

[nabb7]

23 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Let's be honest a pundit will say Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, United or Arsenal can win the league because since it formed in 92, only us and Blackburn have won it other then those teams in the last 28 seasons.

 

Same with the top 4 champions League positions outside of the so called Big 6 only us and Everton have achieved it.

 

With regards to linking our best players to bigger clubs, it's hardly a surprise when we have sold, Kante 2016, Drinkwater 2017, Mahrez 2018, Maguire 2019, Chilwell 2020.

 

We are a selling club, very similar to how Spurs were viewed when they sold Berbatov, Carrick, Modric, Bale, Walker.

 

Only way to change that is to finish in the top 4 more and stop selling our players to rivals.

 

Same with Spurs, until they win something they will be now as bottlers.

 

Simple really.

 

You don't get given respect you have to earn it.

I really don't think we're a selling club. I get that we periodically sell good players, but recently we've been in control of negotiations and end up getting more than good value for them, which is then reinvested pretty smartly (not just in young players but in infrastructure like Seagrave). We just can't compete financially with the rich clubs any other way. But to me we're progressing, not stagnating, so in a few years we may be less dependent on selling star players.

 

For me a big test will be keeping hold of Maddison, just because he seems very focused on reaching the 'top'. If we convince him to stay it'll be a big statement imo

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

When fans go on about us "moving to the next level" I see it as challenging in and around the top six for a few years, getting more European experience, rather than "next level" being winning the title.

Maybe I have lower expectations than most though.

I'm the same. I know we all crave to be part of the 'big/top 6' and that's fine, but we have to prove our right to be there. Of course we won the league and that helps with our stature and legacy which can't be changed, but in order to be counted as a real top 6 team, we have to finish in there for a good few seasons, at least consecutively. 

 

And with that, comes the added bonus of potentially being title contenders any given season we do finish in top 6. This season could be the closest ever. Might not just be 1 or 2 teams running away with it. Fixture congestion will play it's part right til the end of the season - be it through postponed fixtures or too many fixtures due to EL/CL/FA Cup competitions. That will have a big impact on squads and how they perform/get results. Wouldn't be surprised if we see 3 or 4 teams battling it out til the last few games of the season. 

A proper title race!

[ealingfox]

Who has said the next level for us is regularly winning the title?

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

When fans go on about us "moving to the next level" I see it as challenging in and around the top six for a few years, getting more European experience, rather than "next level" being winning the title.

Maybe I have lower expectations than most though.

Being a regular top 6 club and having regular European adventures should be the aim for this football club. That is massive progress. Of course, dreaming of a second league title is always fun. However, if you tell me four years from now we would finish no lower then 7th and have three cups added to our cabinet from the previous four seasons, I would bite your hand off.  

 

We cannot attract (nor afford) the truly elite player yet. To get to continuous league title challenges/wins, you need to be able to go off in January and sign a Bruno Fernandes. The only way we get there is by achieving the next step, which is what you have said. 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

52 minutes ago, nabb7 said:

I really don't think we're a selling club. I get that we periodically sell good players, but recently we've been in control of negotiations and end up getting more than good value for them, which is then reinvested pretty smartly (not just in young players but in infrastructure like Seagrave). We just can't compete financially with the rich clubs any other way. But to me we're progressing, not stagnating, so in a few years we may be less dependent on selling star players.

 

For me a big test will be keeping hold of Maddison, just because he seems very focused on reaching the 'top'. If we convince him to stay it'll be a big statement imo

Kante 2016, Drinkwater 2017, Mahrez 2018, Maguire 2019, Chilwell 2020, doesn't back up that claim.

 

I see nothing wrong with being a selling club, Dortmund and Atlético Madrid have been a very successful clubs following that model.

 

It all about selling the right players at the right prices and replacing them with the next crop of talent. 

 

It just don't understand people taking issue with our players being suggested as good signings for so called bigger clubs, when we have a reputation for selling one big player a year.  

[davieG]

7 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Kante 2016, Drinkwater 2017, Mahrez 2018, Maguire 2019, Chilwell 2020, doesn't back up that claim.

 

I see nothing wrong with being a selling club, Dortmund and Atlético Madrid have been a very successful clubs following that model.

 

It all about selling the right players at the right prices and replacing them with the next crop of talent. 

 

It just don't understand people taking issue with our players being suggested as good signings for so called bigger clubs, when we have a reputation for selling one big player a year.  

But those players wanted to leave we really had no choice. You need to ask yourself would we have willing sold them as in touted them for sale if they hadn't said they wanted to leave.

 

We are a selling club by default not choice because there are a number of clubs out there who are bigger and more attractive in terms of trophies and wages than we are. We always will be until we are seen as their true competitors with every measure.

[coolhandfox]

12 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Being a regular top 6 club and having regular European adventures should be the aim for this football club. That is massive progress. Of course, dreaming of a second league title is always fun. However, if you tell me four years from now we would finish no lower then 7th and have three cups added to our cabinet from the previous four seasons, I would bite your hand off.  

 

We cannot attract (nor afford) the truly elite player yet. To get to continuous league title challenges/wins, you need to be able to go off in January and sign a Bruno Fernandes. The only way we get there is by achieving the next step, which is what you have said. 

 

 

I'd do more then bite your hand off, that would be a monumental achievement when you consider during the last decade only Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U, Man CIty and Arsenal have won more the one trophy in the 10 year span. 

[nabb7]

24 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Kante 2016, Drinkwater 2017, Mahrez 2018, Maguire 2019, Chilwell 2020, doesn't back up that claim.

 

I see nothing wrong with being a selling club, Dortmund and Atlético Madrid have been a very successful clubs following that model.

 

It all about selling the right players at the right prices and replacing them with the next crop of talent. 

 

It just don't understand people taking issue with our players being suggested as good signings for so called bigger clubs, when we have a reputation for selling one big player a year.  

I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t see us being a selling club indefinitely, like Southampton seem to be. There may well be some more big sales in the next few years but the impression I get from Top and Rodgers is that we intend to eventually get to a level where we can retain and attract the big players.

 

I wouldn’t necessarily bet on us succeeding, but I can see us being much less willing to part with key players going forward.

 

(fast forward to Wilf’s £90m move to Man Utd in the summer)

[KingsX]

13 minutes ago, nabb7 said:

(fast forward to Wilf’s £90m move to Man Utd in the summer)

 

Not this summer.

 

[Jon the Hat]

We are kidding ourselves if we think we will ever be a bugger than these huge clubs in terms of wages, and ultimately that drives it all.  Even if we are winning leagues sporadically, we won't be paying £250-400k a week to anyone, ever.

[Spudulike]

Surely a selling club is one that has to sell to survive. I don't think LCFC are in that category. 

 

Players will always be tempted to move for improved contracts (not necessarily for football reasons) especially with agents in their ear 'ols. Even the most financially secure clubs have this issue but it doesn't make them a selling club. 

 

We're Man U a selling club when they lost Ronaldo, Lukaku?? Liverpool Courtinho? 

 

The difference at the moment was highlighted by Rodgers in that our club doesn't (can't) spend £70m plus on a player nor would I want us to. Perhaps that's the difference. 

[Strokes]

12 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

We are kidding ourselves if we think we will ever be a bugger than these huge clubs in terms of wages, and ultimately that drives it all.  Even if we are winning leagues sporadically, we won't be paying £250-400k a week to anyone, ever.

I wouldn’t say ever but if we do, they will be paying probably 3x that. It wasn’t long ago our top earners were getting maximum figures of £25k now we allegedly have players on nearly 6x that.

Not that I would want ever want it, it’s a grotesque figure to be paying someone for a job. 

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

When fans go on about us "moving to the next level" I see it as challenging in and around the top six for a few years, getting more European experience, rather than "next level" being winning the title.

Maybe I have lower expectations than most though.

Thing is, that's just about where we are now. So the next level up from that is almost impossible. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

7 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Surely a selling club is one that has to sell to survive. I don't think LCFC are in that category. 

 

Players will always be tempted to move for improved contracts (not necessarily for football reasons) especially with agents in their ear 'ols. Even the most financially secure clubs have this issue but it doesn't make them a selling club. 

 

We're Man U a selling club when they lost Ronaldo, Lukaku?? Liverpool Courtinho? 

 

The difference at the moment was highlighted by Rodgers in that our club doesn't (can't) spend £70m plus on a player nor would I want us to. Perhaps that's the difference. 

I'd tell you what else, I absolutely love our current model. You know guys like Fofana and Ndidi for example. Not many had heard of them but they come in and all of a sudden become the talk of the league. Its great pulling off moves like this. It gives us an identity. Compare what we are doing to Everton - our model is far more satisfying. 

 

Add to that, when we do sell, its usually for eye watering sums. I mean putting Maguire to one side, Chillwell came through our youth team and fetched us £50m - that is ridiculously good business. We've got a young Thomas to potentially replace him in the future and also bought in three very good players over the summer. Imagine if we keep that up for a few years, the club will survive on its own resources (basically what KP are aiming for). 

 

Like you say, selling is part of the business and there is two ways to do it. I think we've got it right at the moment. Compare it to Southampton a few years ago, who I think messed it up. - they've recovered well though. 

 

We sell one, add two, maybe three and go again. In the last two years we've sold our first choice CB (I wont say best as Evans was always more impo) and LB. Our defence should be shattered but we actually have better options then before! That is just good business. 

[fuchsntf]

4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Thing is, that's just about where we are now. So the next level up from that is almost impossible. 

I Dont Think we are yet at that level....I reckon the Top 7-5 level consistently 3-5 years is the first challenge.

Great if this era also sees us achieving Top 4-2...a few times...

A Chance for  more regulär  Pops at the title....I will Stay humble and say, its a Level too far....but  the odd single forages, Why Not dream..!!

[davieG]

https://www.90min.com/posts/january-big-test-leicester-champions-league-credentials-opinion

 

 

January brings big test of Leicester's Champions League credentials - but they have what it takes
By Matt O'Connor-Simpson
Jan 6, 2021, 6:00 PM GMT
 

It is easy to forget that before the season started, the mood at Leicester City was far from triumphant.
Their incredible capitulation in the second half of the 2019/20 campaign - in which they surrendered an 'unassailable' lead and dropped out of the top four on the final day - was still fresh in supporters' minds, while their Europa League commitments were expected to hamper their domestic form.

Flash forward to the present and after 17 games Leicester are just one point shy of table topping Liverpool and only six worse off than they were at this stage last term.

However, this is a very different league to last season. This time last year, Liverpool, Leicester and Manchester City had already built up a sizeable cushion on the teams below them. This time around, tenth placed West Ham are just seven points off top spot, with all the sides above them harbouring title ambitions of varying feasibility.

In good news for fans of a more easily followed Premier League narrative, the next few weeks should see the table start to slowly resemble its final form. Where Leicester will end up finishing is far from certain but they can make a statement of their top four ambitions during an action packed month ahead.

After taking on Stoke City in the FA Cup on Saturday, in what broadcasters should be dubbing the Robert Huth derby, the Foxes host sixth placed Southampton and ninth placed Chelsea back to back. They then travel to seventh placed Everton, before their January comes to a close with a visit from Leeds.

The first trio of games all come against teams who are just a few points behind them. Thus, the rewards for chalking up three wins - or even just avoiding defeat - would be lavish. But the Foxes will need to improve on their less than impressive home record.

Of their five losses this season, four have come at home. The key problem in defeats to West Ham, Aston Villa, Fulham and Everton was their failure to create chances. Villa aside, the Foxes enjoyed over 60% possession in all these encounters but could not break down their oppositions' low blocks after falling behind.

In this sense, Leicester can feel pretty confident about their home fixtures this month. It is hard to envisage Southampton or Leeds travelling to the King Power Stadium and deploying these sort of defensive tactics.

The high pressing deployed by the pair is likely to leave plenty of space for Leicester to exploit if they can force turnovers, which they have done as effectively as any Premier League side this season, ranking in the top five for most tackles and interceptions.

In full flow, their counter attacking is some of the most attractive in Europe with the pace of Harvey Barnes and James Justin, combined with the guile of James Maddison and Youri Tielemans making an irresistible match. Leicester have already subjected Leeds to a dominant 4-1 defeat this season and there is little reason they cannot showcase the same transitional threat later this month.

As for Chelsea, well, they just aren't playing very well are they? It may seem crazy considering how much Frank Lampard spent in the summer, but on current form, a trio of Ndidi, Maddison, and Tielemans seems far more appealing that the cluster of midfield madness that the Blues have subjected us to in recent weeks.

Everton provide probably the sternest test of all this month. Having already beaten Leicester once this season, Carlo Ancelotti will be confident of repeating the trick but the Foxes should not be fearful. As poor as their home record has been, their brilliant away form has made up for it.

No side have earned more points away from home than them this season (22) and their only defeat on the road was against leaders Liverpool. Their fantastic record has included some famous scalps as well, with Manchester City, Tottenham, Leeds and Arsenal all being bested on their travels.

If you are still not convinced that January is set to be a season defining month for Leicester, the news that Ricardo Pereira is returning to full fitness imminently should do the trick.

Jamie Vardy, James Maddison
Leicester could avenge the ghosts of last season by securing Champions League qualification | Michael Regan/Getty Images
The flying right-back has carved out a reputation as one of the world's best right-backs since arriving in the East Midlands back in 2018 and having him fit and firing will increase Leicester's already potent threat on the counter.

Last season, the start of 2020 was when the wheels on the Foxes' season fell apart. This time around, it has the potential to be the period in which their Champions League charge starts to accelerate.

 

[davieG]

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-leicester-transfer-news-4873067

 

Stoke City were knocked out of the FA Cup by a rampant Leicester side – but the transfer window is open and the focus is on the Championship. Here are the talking points as things stand.

A gulf between two teams

If Stoke have been benchmarking themselves against the teams relegated from the Premier League this season, the two cup games against Spurs and Leicester – who both fielded near full-strength sides – was a reminder just what the benchmark is against the best.

Leicester – one point off the top in the top flight – were full of speed, movement and craft with quality in every corner. They had made eight changes against Newcastle for a league game the previous weekend, two against Stoke, both enforced.

Stoke gave a good fight for the best part of an hour but as players who were given a chance to get minutes in their legs started to tire, combined with Michael O’Neill needing to take more risks, the game quickly spiralled away.

It’s only five-and-a-half years since Stoke fans laughed when Leicester tried to sign their best player, Steven Nzonzi.

The way they’ve since leapfrogged Stoke, and about 15 other clubs, is probably a blueprint to follow. Boy, it feels a long road.

[NeilLCFC]

On 05/01/2021 at 14:47, coolhandfox said:

Let's be honest a pundit will say Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, United or Arsenal can win the league because since it formed in 92, only us and Blackburn have won it other then those teams in the last 28 seasons.

 

Same with the top 4 champions League positions outside of the so called Big 6 only us and Everton have achieved it.

 

With regards to linking our best players to bigger clubs, it's hardly a surprise when we have sold, Kante 2016, Drinkwater 2017, Mahrez 2018, Maguire 2019, Chilwell 2020.

 

We are a selling club, very similar to how Spurs were viewed when they sold Berbatov, Carrick, Modric, Bale, Walker.

 

Only way to change that is to finish in the top 4 more and stop selling our players to rivals.

 

Same with Spurs, until they win something they will be now as bottlers.

 

Simple really.

 

You don't get given respect you have to earn it.

Since our promotion we’ve earned a hell of a lot more respect than Arsenal have. Yet we’re still constantly told our best players would be better of playing for a club like Arsenal.

[Koke]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

It’s only five-and-a-half years since Stoke fans laughed when Leicester tried to sign their best player, Steven Nzonzi.

 

Would have loved Nzonzi here. Quite ambitious by the club in 2015 wanting to sign someone who ended up at Sevilla though. 

[Spudulike]

19 minutes ago, Koke said:

 

Would have loved Nzonzi here. Quite ambitious by the club in 2015 wanting to sign someone who ended up at Sevilla though. 

Then another player would've taken that penalty. 

[Jobyfox]

On 06/01/2021 at 16:12, Jon the Hat said:

We are kidding ourselves if we think we will ever be a bugger than these huge clubs in terms of wages, and ultimately that drives it all.  Even if we are winning leagues sporadically, we won't be paying £250-400k a week to anyone, ever.

Freudian slip? 

[davieG]

On 06/01/2021 at 16:12, Jon the Hat said:

We are kidding ourselves if we think we will ever be a bugger than these huge clubs in terms of wages, and ultimately that drives it all.  Even if we are winning leagues sporadically, we won't be paying £250-400k a week to anyone, ever.

We used to get buggered a lot, not so much these days as we prefer to give rather than receive.