The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

[The Bear]

11 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Yep it was the first time I can remember Perez playing up top by himself and something we might look to do in games where we need to rest Vardy. Perez scored and linked play pretty well, but I do feel we lacked a player to find with our last pass many times, as he would be far too deep instead of in the danger zone, a problem that Nacho also has. Vardy doesn't touch the ball nearly as much, but look how many goals he scores!

 

Interesting experiment though that warrants another test, no doubt against Brentford in the same competition. 

I've never understood why Perez hasn't been Vardy's direct replacement all along. You bought him from Newcastle when he used to play up front on his own and he scored a decent amount of goals in that role. Yet you've never used him that way. 

Edited 13 January 2021 by The Bear

[Yes]

14 minutes ago, surrifox said:

Even in League 1 Leeds clung to the notion of a rivalry with Man U 

Plenty of history there in fairness and not just in football, Leeds are largely considered one of Man Utds top 3 rivals traditionally. Probably not as strong as it once was though imo with the amount of time they spent apart.

Edited 13 January 2021 by Yes

[SemperEadem]

I can't grasp the attitude of certain fanbases in this county that you can only have one rival. Geography and history just does not lend itself to this.

[Voll Blau]

2 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

I can't grasp the attitude of certain fanbases in this county that you can only have one rival. Geography and history just does not lend itself to this.

I remember there was a big survey done a few years ago which found less than half of all clubs have a mutual top rival in England. Think it was this one but can't find the original...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/jan/22/newsstory.sport11

[Paninistickers]

9 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

True. I had forgotten that, but you're absolutely right.

 

Agreed. I can't speak for anyone else, but I spend so little time thinking about local rivals that it's pretty much become a thing of the past for me. The more time that passes, any comments from Forest fans about us more closely resemble Peterborough fans' comments. It's like hearing about someone who lives down the road slagging you off when you've never even met them.

 

Much bigger fish to fry these days.

 

We're all on our own,

We're all on our own,

It's Forest and Derby,

We're all on our own.

On a side note, i must admit to being guilty of this. Not a flattering trait, but hey ho. Let's off steam.

 

Just about Anyone I've never met is fair game for my slaggings; celebs, dog walkers, school parents, clients, people on here, police ....whatever

 

 

[Koke]

13 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I've never understood why Perez hasn't been Vardy's direct replacement all along. You bought him from Newcastle when he used to play up front on his own and he scored a decent amount of goals in that role. Yet you've never used him that way. 

 

I agree. He's never been tried up top, bar against Stoke and AEK Athens in the Europa League. He did well both times but the opposition were terrible. Its worth trying again. He was playing as a #9 for Newcastle, sometimes as second striker. But we bought him and stuck him out on the wing where he is hit and miss. 

[KingsX]

1 hour ago, Jobyfox said:

I’ve seen that comment before and I must admit that it’s probably the most idiotic comment I’ve ever seen on a football forum - and there has been some serious competition.

 

Sorry to disagree, but that same thread had an even more precious gem.  Exact, verbatim quote:

 

Yeah, there teem is great … but the few Leicestr fans I know at work are as thick as sh!t

[Dahnsouff]

18 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I've never understood why Perez hasn't been Vardy's direct replacement all along. You bought him from Newcastle when he used to play up front on his own and he scored a decent amount of goals in that role. Yet you've never used him that way. 

Actually think this related more to the systems we had comfort/experience playing more than to Perez. Our system, the trademark KickToVardy method is never going to translate to Perez, we had to evolve the play options to get Perez into the system. 

[StriderHiryu]

14 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I've never understood why Perez hasn't been Vardy's direct replacement all along. You bought him from Newcastle when he used to play up front on his own and he scored a decent amount of goals in that role. Yet you've never used him that way. 

The season we signed him, his touch map from his time at Newcastle was very reminiscent of an inside forward right winger. My gut feeling is that Perez was signed based on an Analytics recommendation; the data suggested he was an inside right forward who scored a lot of goals and assists that should mean his value was much higher than the 30m we paid for him, hence paying the release fee and not negotiating. But this is one of the few examples where our analytics department got it wrong, because that data was skewed because of the way Rafa Benitez used him and Rondon at Newcastle, and they were not an expansive attacking team.

 

The analytical approach has worked for us many times in the past and present though; Kante, Ndidi, Fofana, etc.

 

Perez could definitely play as an out and out striker, but he doesn't stretch the game like Vardy does. Perez could still be effective, but in my lifetime Vardy is the player that I know genuinely worries opposition fans. So many times I've been to away grounds and literally heard people groan in panic / despair as Vardy gets slipped through on a counter attack. It's a bit like how we as Leicester fans think that the last Wolves player we want to see having a free strike at goal from 30 yards out is Ruben Neves, like that brilliant strike that Kasper luckily saved when we played you. 

 

Anyway it seems like we are at least trying him in the position, and he passed his first test. But I think that when he plays that way, it makes Barnes more dangerous than Perez, whereas when Vardy plays, both Vardy and Barnes look like scoring. 

[StriderHiryu]

25 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Have you got any little clips of Perez's contributions? I heard quite a lot that his link up play is very impressive but I never really notice him doing anything out of the ordinary for a premier league footballer. 

 

I'm genuinely intrigued in what people see in Perez past an average forward player. I think his pro's are quick brain and good close control and attempts to quickly lay the ball off. Negatives would be that he's easily disposessed, doesn't really create chances or score a great deal. 

 

When we're against a team that's sat in or is just defensively resolute I find him to be totally nullified and incredibly unlikely to create something.

 

I wonder if others see the same but think those qualities are enough for a starting forward. I'd really love a few more players with pace. One thing defenders or systems can't really account for is forwards with pace, which I why I'm hoping Under gets some proper game time. I genuinely think a front four of Barnes, Maddison, Under and Vardy will be the best we have ever fielded. Certainly in my lifetime (although Heskey/Collymoore v Sunderland will never be beaten as a one off)

 

If you have the Athletic then it's worth reading the article which does make some good points as to the way he played in the Stoke game. 

 

For what it's worth though, I'm more in agreement with you than not. For 30m, Perez is lackluster in terms of both his output, goal contributions and key passes. His best attributes are his positioning, work rate and pressing. When he plays, it's very rare that he doesn't make a few tackles high up the pitch to help win us the ball back and keep us on the front foot. But compare him to Barnes on the other side, and it's Barnes that looks like the marquee signing. 

 

When Perez is central though, he does link play ala Okazaki very well. In literally the the thumbnail image used for the preview part of the article (so the free bit that everyone can see), it's showcasing how he dropped deep to receive the ball and drag defenders out of their marking positions so that Barnes, Praet and Albrighton can run into those spaces. In games last season he sometimes played as a 10 behind Nacho or Vardy and took up similar positions, but this time playing through balls to Vardy. That's the point of the article, though for me we need to see a lot more of it before we can say it's a legitimate plan B. But it does have potential for sure.

 

[filbertway]

31 minutes ago, The Bear said:

I've never understood why Perez hasn't been Vardy's direct replacement all along. You bought him from Newcastle when he used to play up front on his own and he scored a decent amount of goals in that role. Yet you've never used him that way. 

When did he play up front by himself?

[filbertway]

9 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

If you have the Athletic then it's worth reading the article which does make some good points as to the way he played in the Stoke game. 

 

For what it's worth though, I'm more in agreement with you than not. For 30m, Perez is lackluster in terms of both his output, goal contributions and key passes. His best attributes are his positioning, work rate and pressing. When he plays, it's very rare that he doesn't make a few tackles high up the pitch to help win us the ball back and keep us on the front foot. But compare him to Barnes on the other side, and it's Barnes that looks like the marquee signing. 

 

When Perez is central though, he does link play ala Okazaki very well. In literally the the thumbnail image used for the preview part of the article (so the free bit that everyone can see), it's showcasing how he dropped deep to receive the ball and drag defenders out of their marking positions so that Barnes, Praet and Albrighton can run into those spaces. In games last season he sometimes played as a 10 behind Nacho or Vardy and took up similar positions, but this time playing through balls to Vardy. That's the point of the article, though for me we need to see a lot more of it before we can say it's a legitimate plan B. But it does have potential for sure.

 

I knew you wouldn't let me down  I've got a subscription to the Athletic but haven't looked at it in a month or so as I found the articles were getting a bit naff. 

 

I'll load it up and have a look. Seems to me that we have a very expensive version of David McGoldrick on our hands haha.

 

Appreciate the response mate

 

Having read it, I think it's hard to disagree with anything written. It certainly is food for thought, it'll be interesting if we can play a similar system against better opposition to see if it works. I see the merit, especilly as sometimes Vardy spends a whole game without seeing the ball. It seems like a lot would be riding on that player in the false 9/deep striker having a good game and winning the majority of their individual batttles. If Perez was man marked in that role then we'd basically be playing without a striker.

 

Interesting perspective though and at least allows me to see Rodgers thinking.

 

I think I'll always think pace and directness is the way to go, so maybe I tend not to appreciate the "clever" slower players as much if they're not scoring or creating a lot.

Edited 13 January 2021 by filbertway

[Kierzz]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I saw this article and I think they are getting the wrong end of the stick. I don't Perez played a "false 9" at all and simply was a player whose natural tendency is to drop deep being more of a support striker, a bit like Firmino at Liverpool. Has Rodgers come out and confirmed the system was a false 9? Don't think so.

 

I wouldn't put it past Rodgers to try the system and thought he might have been doing that earlier in the season when we started with just Barnes and no Vardy, but even then we didn't play it. Only Man City play that way in the Premier League as it stands. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ayoze-perez-selected-ahead-kelechi-4882249.amp

 

Rodgers pretty much confirms here that he told Perez to operate as a false nine to create an overload in midfield rather than occupying the centre backs for the full game.

 

What's also interesting here is that he thinks Nacho can only play on the last defender.....

 

Nacho doesn't have the right skillset to play exclusively as that kind of striker. I think he is better playing with his back to goal than playing off the last defender and running in behind.

[Nalis]

56 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

On a side note, i must admit to being guilty of this. Not a flattering trait, but hey ho. Let's off steam.

 

Just about Anyone I've never met is fair game for my slaggings; celebs, dog walkers, school parents, clients, people on here, police ....whatever

 

 

Ha, wow yeah there are people me and my mates have seen doing something normal years ago, just waiting for a bus or something, that we've given hours of airtime about, either in a good way or bad.

[StriderHiryu]

38 minutes ago, Kierzz said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ayoze-perez-selected-ahead-kelechi-4882249.amp

 

Rodgers pretty much confirms here that he told Perez to operate as a false nine to create an overload in midfield rather than occupying the centre backs for the full game.

 

What's also interesting here is that he thinks Nacho can only play on the last defender.....

 

Nacho doesn't have the right skillset to play exclusively as that kind of striker. I think he is better playing with his back to goal than playing off the last defender and running in behind.

That is interesting, thanks for sharing. Might have to watch the game again now and keep an eye on more of his play and positioning specifically!

[blaaklint]

19 hours ago, Kierzz said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ayoze-perez-selected-ahead-kelechi-4882249.amp

 

Rodgers pretty much confirms here that he told Perez to operate as a false nine to create an overload in midfield rather than occupying the centre backs for the full game.

 

What's also interesting here is that he thinks Nacho can only play on the last defender.....

 

Nacho doesn't have the right skillset to play exclusively as that kind of striker. I think he is better playing with his back to goal than playing off the last defender and running in behind.

I wonder if that last bit more means that he doesn't see Iheanacho as effective dropping deeper, rather than meaning actually breaking the line. More pinning the centre-backs.

[Dahnsouff]

Sensible Transfers: Dybala, Isco, Diaby and how the Trippier ban could change sport betting - YouTube

 

40 minutes in, they are discussing Demarai Gray  (Losing all respect for Alex though  )

[KingsX]

Something for your pre-match entertainment this evening ... it'll save you 13 minutes of listening to Liverpool - Man U buildup.

 

 

[Koke]

We do have more haters from weird clubs like Everton though. Southampton are the most wholesome club in the league.

 

 

Edited 17 January 2021 by Koke

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/national-media-report-leicester-southampton-4897234

 

The Guardian , Peter Lansley

James Maddison showed the way forward both for Leicester’s title aspirations and for Covid-19 protocols as he marked his winning goal by indulging in some socially distanced celebrations.

The England hopeful blasted home a fine first-half goal from an acute angle to help Leicester move second in the Premier League, ahead of Liverpool before the champions’ home game on Sunday against the leaders, Manchester United.

Depleted Southampton, losing away for the first time since the opening day and conceding for the first time in four games, created enough chances to win on a night when they missed Danny Ings, out with coronavirus. But it was the modestly mannered Maddison whose strike set up the difference between two excellent sides before Harvey Barnes scored a second in stoppage time and repeated Maddison’s celebratory charades.

The Sun , Dan King

James Maddison showed Leicester - and football - the way.

Maddison’s goal, against the run of play, put Leicester on the road to second place in the Premier League.

And his sensible, socially-distanced celebration set a much-needed good example on a day when his fellow scorers had failed to heed pleas to stick to Covid-19 rules.

Maddison’s fine turn and finish were a timely reminder to England manager Gareth Southgate, who was sitting in the stands, of his game-changing talent.

Injury stopped him making a flying start to the season and he has slipped down the international pecking order behind the likes of Jack Grealish, Phil Foden and Mason Mount.

There was plenty of humour in the way he shooed away his team-mates as they closed in to congratulate him and in the pretend high-fives and handshakes he offered.

But there was also intelligence of a kind that Mount, to take one example, had not shown.

England captain Harry Kane, who had urged his fellow players to take on board warnings from the Premier League and Government, will surely have appreciated Maddison’s maturity.

 

The Independent , Simon Peach

James Maddison and Harvey Barnes strikes sent Leicester second in the Premier League as Brendan Rodgers’ side edged out victory against absentee-hit Southampton.

The high-flying teams played out an entertaining encounter at an impressive tempo in front of empty stands at the King Power Stadium on Saturday.

Leicester had not beaten Southampton on home soil since 2016 but Maddison’s fierce strike helped them end that frustrating run, with Barnes scoring in stoppage time to wrap up a 2-0 win against Ralph Hasenhuttl’s men.

Saints were without the likes of Danny Ings, Oriol Romeu and Jannik Vestergaard on Saturday evening but started on the front foot, impressing in and out of possession against the flustered Foxes.

But Leicester cranked up the pressure towards half-time and went ahead in the 37th minute as Maddison rolled Jack Stephens and lashed past Alex McCarthy in front of watching England boss Gareth Southgate.

Kasper Schmeichel pulled off some important saves on his 400th Leicester appearance and Stuart Armstrong rattled the crossbar in a helter-skelter second period.

Jamie Vardy somehow failed to puncture growing tension against Southampton, who were caught out at the death by Barnes.

[StanSP]

 

[st albans fox]

13 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

He obvs only saw the second half! 

[Mash21]

On 13/01/2021 at 15:49, Koke said:

 

I agree. He's never been tried up top, bar against Stoke and AEK Athens in the Europa League. He did well both times but the opposition were terrible. Its worth trying again. He was playing as a #9 for Newcastle, sometimes as second striker. But we bought him and stuck him out on the wing where he is hit and miss. 

He wouldn't suit our play style playing up-front, he's not got the pace to make the in-behind runs that Vardy makes. Like the idea of him playing in a number 10 role and agree that he probably is better in the middle but not as a striker.

[ARTY_FOX]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

Don't start taking us seriously!!! Let us stay under the radar! 

[KingsX]

Surprisingly decent thread:   https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-will-it-take-for-leicester-to-replace-arsenal-as-part-of-the-big-6.460272/

 

They probably are able to discuss us fairly and dispassionately because they don’t feel they have a dog in the fight.  Their ordained status puts them above the fray -- and we didn’t quite take that big bite out of them last year.

 

But: this is a true sample of current outsiders’ perceptions.  And the view has gained considerable momentum, that Leicester City are set up to compete with the big dogs, and doing so.  People arguing for Arsenal or Everton instead, catch more flak than agreement.

Edited 18 January 2021 by KingsX