Helicopter crash

[Sharpe's Foxes]

9 minutes ago, irishfoxkev said:

Probably going to get some incoming flack for this but yes I have watched the suns video and the cctv footage. Why ?

Because its an integral part of an horrendous and tragic news story that has hit me and thousands of others very hard. It has helped to complete the picture as to what happened. Granted watching it  I knew the  devasting final consequences but it has helped me get a clearer picture in my mind as to the horrible evening last Saturday. With cameras almost everywhere these days it was obvious that film coverage would make it into public domain. How many on here can honestly say they haven’t watched films of  tragedies that cost many lives ? EG 9/11 or other sporting tragedies going back a long time like Bradford City fire, Hilllsboro, Heysel etc etc.  OK this one is closer to home and hurts more but to me it’s up to each individual to make their own decision on whether to watch it or not.

 

 

There's also an educational, knowledge expansion, learning moment in these videos.  You gain alot more expert knowledge on helicopters and aerodynamics, etc than you would before the incident.

You see this with injuries too.  As gruseome as they can be you learn what caused the injury and what to avoid doing in the future to prevent or minimize such injuries.

 

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, Larry_LCFC said:

I think any newspaper would have released the footage if it was sent to them to be honest. It's the sad world we live in now. How many people on this forum have taken the time to watch it? The majority I would say. If they know there is a demand, they will do it.

Since the media took to photos (even Drawings),then film. The horrors of and in life have been portrayed in journals,newsreels,magazines

In my lifetime..64 yrs..war reels ,crime-news,accidents caught on film.....I am no "Sun" fan...but because the events are literally in our own backyard,

Doesn't mean, it's not filmworthy,or should not be publicised....even taking in the "public interest"

 

For whatever reason individuals release their own taken footage...money,interest,scientific...etc etc..there is another point in this and some other

Cases that footage released to the public might awaken eyewitnesses memories,from that footage that could help with investigations.

One takes a first look,may not think too much,or can't get by the horror,but then outsiders of the official investigation might just pick up

On something..anything that even they the profis might miss,or not aware of...

 

I remember seeing the napalm attack on Vietnam,the children and women ,wondering why the film crew,didn't throw down their camaras

To help the suffering,The Hindenburg disaster...the cameras kept rolling...so on and so on.The voyeurs on motorway crashes...

The world in its glories and tradegies,are there for all to see......Because Profi and amateur film cameramen,were on the spot at the

Right/wrong time.

I for one,the older I got,and that since my late teens,never went out my way to chase down such footages,today more than ever such images

are thrown in you face...I don't like it.....but !!!! and acknowledging that but,won't leave me at the front door of hypocrisy.

Because me &,my kind's life in the future might depend on such footage in the future....

 

 

 

Edited 31 October 2018 by fuchsntf

[Deucalion]

Something hit the helicopter's tailroter.

 

You can see it from about 46-50 seconds.

 

Don't know if it was a bird, a drone, or a firework, but something hits it.  

[Farrington fox]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

It came out that the police tried to get in put got pushed back due to the flames, someone then seemed to add to that story that they had been told to "get back" by someone inside. Frankly, I would take those comments with a pinch of salt. Lots of things get twisted and embellished for a story. The pilots maneuvering to crash in a safe place being one quite probably, having spoken to the pilots I know and seeing the videos, it's unlikely they had the time or ability to do so.

Quite right, following the catastrophic failure, if that is what is was, there seemed to be a very brief moment of control in yaw, before it was lost. After that I would suggest the pilot had no control whatsoever as to where it came down.

 

I am no expert admittedly, but I do fly light fixed wing aircraft, the impact I would have thought, would have been upward of 50g. I just can't see anyone surviving that.  Imagine being in car and driving off the roof of the King Power. It far exceeded that. 

Edited 31 October 2018 by Farrington fox

[HankMarvin]

55 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Since the media took to photos (even Drawings),then film. The horrors of and in life have been portrayed in journals,newsreels,magazines

In my lifetime..64 yrs..war reels ,crime-news,accidents caught on film.....I am no "Sun" fan...but because the events are literally in our own backyard,

Doesn't mean, it's not filmworthy,or should not be publicised....even taking in the "public interest"

 

For whatever reason individuals release their own taken footage...money,interest,scientific...etc etc..there is another point in this and some other

Cases that footage released to the public might awaken eyewitnesses memories,from that footage that could help with investigations.

One takes a first look,may not think too much,or can't get by the horror,but then outsiders of the official investigation might just pick up

On something..anything that even they the profis might miss,or not aware of...

 

I remember seeing the napalm attack on Vietnam,the children and women ,wondering why the film crew,didn't throw down their camaras

To help the suffering,The Hindenburg disaster...the cameras kept rolling...so on and so on.The voyeurs on motorway crashes...

The world in its glories and tradegies,are there for all to see......Because Profi and amateur film cameramen,were on the spot at the

Right/wrong time.

I for one,the older I got,and that since my late teens,never went out my way to chase down such footages,today more than ever such images

are thrown in you face...I don't like it.....but !!!! and acknowledging that but,won't leave me at the front door of hypocrisy.

Because me &,my kind's life in the future might depend on such footage in the future....

 

 

 

I think as adults we have a choice, its not being surprisingly shown as someone logs onto the forum.

No one is forcing anyone to watch the video that doesn't want to see it, I certainly dont think its any worse than the shock of seeing the images and videos from the media of the helicopter on fire on Saturday.

The link comes with a warning, the video also comes with a warning. Its being shown in the mainstream media not some hidden away site like Liveleak.

As others have said, its no different to tragic accidents caught on camera throughout the years, its just the personal affiliation we have with the people involved that makes it more difficult/upsetting to watch.

Everybodys grieving process is different, some will choose to ignore and stick to stories portrayed by the media and some try to find as much detail as possible to understand and come to terms with what happened.

 

 

Edited 31 October 2018 by HankMarvin

[ARM1968]

AAIB will certainly be watching all videos. The sun video is actually of real interest as, just prior to loss of control, something falls fast to the ground, probably onto the pitch. What it is I don’t know. 

 

I imagine the accident was a result of catastrophic tail rotor failure. 

 

Selling the the video for profit is wrong though, but in this case it may not have come to light otherwise. 

[stripeyfox]

Lots of aviation boffins discussing technical details of helicopter flight (and crash) here:

 

https://forums.jetphotos.com/showthread.php?61577-Football-club-owner-dies-in-helicopter-crash&s=18d2eb863af43dd33802de52d062a427

 

[TheUltimateWinner]

31 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

Lots of aviation boffins discussing technical details of helicopter flight (and crash) here:

 

https://forums.jetphotos.com/showthread.php?61577-Football-club-owner-dies-in-helicopter-crash&s=18d2eb863af43dd33802de52d062a427

 

Unfortunately as somber the subject is, it is and will be interesting to know what could possibly have caused this tragedy. 

 

Another interesting read here too, 19 pages worth:

 

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/614822-helicopter-down-outside-leicester-city-football-club-not-condolences.html 

[Sharpe's Foxes]

42 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

Quite right, following the catastrophic failure, if that is what is was, there seemed to be a very brief moment of control in yaw, before it was lost. After that I would suggest the pilot had no control whatsoever as to where it came down.

 

I am no expert admittedly, but I do fly light fixed wing aircraft, the impact I would have thought, would have been upward of 50g. I just can't see anyone surviving that.  Imagine being in car and driving off the roof of the King Power. It far exceeded that. 

But helicopter probably doesn't crash directly to the ground like a plane.  It looks like it spirals circularly which would have reduced impact compared to a plane.

[stripeyfox]

5 minutes ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

Unfortunately as somber the subject is, it is and will be interesting to know what could possibly have caused this tragedy. 

 

Another interesting read here too, 19 pages worth:

 

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/614822-helicopter-down-outside-leicester-city-football-club-not-condolences.html 

interesting stuff - will have a read later. Some of these guys sound like they really know their stuff!

 

Have always been quite fascinated by air accidents and their investigation. Of course, I never dreamed something would be quite as close to home as this. 

[stripeyfox]

5 minutes ago, Sharpe's Foxes said:

But helicopter probably doesn't crash directly to the ground like a plane.  It looks like it spirals circularly which would have reduced impact compared to a plane.

Yes. And the pictures of the main fuselage (at last the front that we could see in the post crash fire footage) does seem reasonably intact, considering.

 

 

[The Bear]

A helicopter spinning like that would be falling purely under gravity, there would be very little if any accelerating downwards under engine power. 

[ARM1968]

31 minutes ago, The Bear said:

A helicopter spinning like that would be falling purely under gravity, there would be very little if any accelerating downwards under engine power. 

Main rotors were still spinning, so continued to provide a lifting force. It was not a free fall as such. I still think it is entirely likely that it was down to the pilot that it landed where it did - it wasn’t just blind luck. 

[Smudge]

6 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

Main rotors were still spinning, so continued to provide a lifting force. It was not a free fall as such. I still think it is entirely likely that it was down to the pilot that it landed where it did - it wasn’t just blind luck. 

The procedure to land a helicopter in an emergency is to have forward speed, so the tail can "weathervane" the helicopter in a straight line, this is some compensation for having no rear rotor. Power needs to disengaged allowing auto-rotation (windmilling) to have a controlled descent then a flare (nose up) to slow the helicopter down just prior to landing, then level up for a sllde landing. This is a controlled stall (loss of lift) which all planes do on landing.

Edited 31 October 2018 by Smudge

[ARTY_FOX]

I don’t know if this has been posted elsewhere but...

 

[StanSP]

Hearing Taggart's recollections of the story and how he avoided the site at that specific time pulls at the heart strings. And then when he breaks off and you can hear him sobbing after he mentions his own sons  

[Ric Flair]

38 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

I don’t know if this has been posted elsewhere but...

 

Ouch, that's hurt. Harrowing.

[Rigga]

Is that from YouTube Arty_Fox ?

[ARM1968]

18 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Hearing Taggart's recollections of the story and how he avoided the site at that specific time pulls at the heart strings. And then when he breaks off and you can hear him sobbing after he mentions his own sons  

Bless him. The whole thing is harrowing and pulls at your emotions from every direction. It’s bad enough being one of us, let alone one of those closer to situation and the man himself. 

[Clarkielcfc]

Wow that Ian stringer video hurt ??

[Wymsey]

The BBC footage of the helicopter taking off and last seen spinning around at the end of the video makes me feel ill, let alone others viewing the actual crash via other footage..

 

Absolutely tragically a case of terrible bad luck.

Edited 31 October 2018 by Wymeswold fox

[blueharmie]

2 hours ago, Smudge said:

The procedure to land a helicopter in an emergency is to have forward speed, so the tail can "weathervane" the helicopter in a straight line, this is some compensation for having no rear rotor. Power needs to disengaged allowing auto-rotation (windmilling) to have a controlled descent then a flare (nose up) to slow the plane down just prior to landing. This is a controlled stall (loss of lift) which all planes do on landing. 

The suspected rotar failure couldn't happen at a worse time. The helicopter was not high enough and could not get enough airspeed to autorotate down safely. The pilot would have had seconds but it's not long enough. As soon as the 'spin' starts the pilot is just a passenger. 

 

There a lots of YouTube videos of a controlled landing with rotar failure but all the factors on that night it was impossible to complete this maneuver.

 

I'm no expert just have in interest in the field so this is only my view.

The AAIB will work to find the cause and at least the family's can get some closure on that part at least.

 

Edited 31 October 2018 by blueharmie

[Farrington fox]

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/614822-helicopter-down-outside-leicester-city-football-club-not-condolences.html

 

Posts 240 to 245 might address some concerns. 

[smr]

5 hours ago, Deucalion said:

Something hit the helicopter's tailroter.

 

You can see it from about 46-50 seconds.

 

Don't know if it was a bird, a drone, or a firework, but something hits it.  

I've not seen the video. But the drone theory does keep crossing my mind now and then. On Saturday my Dad couldn't get into 1-6 with his umbrella so he had to walk around the stadium and put it in the belongings bit (which I believe is on the corner of the stadium where the crash site was). So after the game he went to collect it, walking left outside of 1-6 when normally he'd go past the club shop with me. When walking around he says he saw a policeman and a woman, who must also have been something to do with the police, one of them operating a drone. They'd marked out a square on the ground for the drone to land in, which it missed by a foot or so, the woman put it back in the square...but he says that it didn't sit right with him that these were flying over where people would be walking, they must weigh a tonne. Whether the drone went back up who knows? Officially they've said there weren't any but what if they were having practice goes or whatever unofficially?

[egg_fried_rice]

1 hour ago, ARTY_FOX said:

I don’t know if this has been posted elsewhere but...

 

Thanks for sharing. I don't live locally any more so hadn't heard any of the Radio Leicester coverage - I've been moved to tears by that video and it just reaffirms what the man meant to so many significant club figures.

 

Huge credit to Ian Stringer for how he's handled himself over the past few days.