Available Managers should Puel get the sack

[UniFox21]

1 minute ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Ironically people are saying Jardim yet his style of football pretty much Mimics Puels, except his team was generally more attacking focused last season where he had one of the best teams in Europe. Not really sure what people expect Jardim to do with our squad, we are transitioning but still have a fair few one dimensional players.

The grass always appears greener on the other side 

[cityfanlee23]

If we are to get rid at the end of the season, Bielsa could be a shout if he does not get the poisoned chalice promoted. Although he has a record of leaving clubs after a season or two. Not really the approach i'd be looking for. 

[winteriscoming]

There's no way jardim will come to us not now not in the summer. Looking like mourinho goes in the summer they will be interested. Also there are rumours pochettino is in the running for the United job so spurs could look at jardim as well. Then there's real madrid who I'd imagine will be looking for a manager in the summer. 

[cityfanlee23]

Looking at our squad and their capabilities in terms of changing their style of play, we have a limited squad. 

Players I would call "one dimensional" that don't have the ability to really utilise new ways of football:
- Wes 
- Albrighton 
- Simpson
- King
- Okazaki

- Silva

- Benalouane

- James

 

Then we look at players that could be moulded but still need work:
- Ghezzal
- Gray
- Amartey
- Iheanacho
- Soyuncu 
- Diabate

- Ndidi 
- Mendy

That's a large amount of players that really are not the finished article, won't feature or have shown no or little ability to change their style of play. 

Of those lists we should be looking to replace atleast 7 of them, that's a bench and more of options to switch up a game. Whoever the new manager is they really are not going to do anything unless they are allowed to replace atleast 7 of the fringe players, and a new manager may even command an entirely new way of thinking and need to replace even more than that!

 

Regardless of what people think of Puel, his signings have looked fine and the squad he would leave behind is definitely more diverse than when he arrived. 

[Dan LCFC]

17 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

No…. I don’t believe it’s been based on two games…

 

however, these threads proliferate when we’ve had bad results…

 

Is it a coincidence?

No it isn't, but if they appeared after a win, you would get people saying "we win a game and they're still moaning!!!!".

 

I do think there were an element who had it out for him from the off but it's been long enough under Puel now, there's a pretty big amount of time to make a judgement and sadly I just cannot see it ever working.

[Wolfox]

4 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

No it isn't, but if they appeared after a win, you would get people saying "we win a game and they're still moaning!!!!".

 

I do think there were an element who had it out for him from the off but it's been long enough under Puel now, there's a pretty big amount of time to make a judgement and sadly I just cannot see it ever working.

Ok… fair enough…  if we all had the same opinion it’d be a pretty dull forum…

 

i hope ( as you do, I imagine??!!!!!) that this view is proven to to be premature…

 

quote me in 6 months!!!

[murphy]

I haven't read this whole thread, it's too depressing but  I voted in,  I have never known our fan base to be so divided about a manager hence the satisfaction that seems to appear with every bad result and performance.  It's almost tribal now.

 

I think there is a common misconception among the 'outers' that the in crowd think that Puel is the best thing since sliced bread.   Personally, I don't.  He wasn't my choice in the beginning and if we were to go back in time he still wouldn't be.  Nobody is happy with insipid performances and losses like this one and often I don't really care for the style of football myself. 

 

The difference, I suppose, is that some of us don't need a change of manager every time we hit some turbulence.  I think there is a lot to be said for stability at the moment, particularly in light of recent events.  I really think that going back to square one with a different manager will be taking us backwards. 

 

We are in no danger of relegation, so let's give him the chance to see this through.

[Stinkenzo]

I can't remember the last time I was satisfied with a managerial appointment. Probably Sven? turned out well

[Ric Flair]

5 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Ironically people are saying Jardim yet his style of football pretty much Mimics Puels, except his team was generally more attacking focused last season where he had one of the best teams in Europe. Not really sure what people expect Jardim to do with our squad, we are transitioning but still have a fair few one dimensional players.

Theres more to whether a manager is a success or not as to whether they play 4-2-3-1 or not. Its evident we need to be comfortable playing possession football as a lot of teams now sit back and prevent the counter attack. What is hindering us is God awful lucky dip team selections, what appears to be the team talk equivalent of valium before games and an inability to get a creative central midfielder in and midfield two.

 

Jardim could have the exact same style of play but just not be a complete poltis.

[Dan LCFC]

1 hour ago, Wolfox said:

Ok… fair enough…  if we all had the same opinion it’d be a pretty dull forum…

 

i hope ( as you do, I imagine??!!!!!) that this view is proven to to be premature…

 

quote me in 6 months!!!

I do as well but I doubt it. I've seen too many worrying trends under him now.

[Guest]

Go out and get Blanc. Assuming Zidane don’t fancy it

[lcfc sheff]

Forgive me if it’s already been mentioned as I haven’t read through the entire thread...

 

but what would people say to a Martin and Roy combo at our club? 

[volpeazzurro]

6 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Jardim's tactical flexibility is what gets me about him, not only has he punched above his weight at nearly every club he's managed, he's built different types of teams - remember when Monaco topped their Champions League group conceding just one goal then went and knocked Arsenal out? That was Jardim. Few years later they're one of the most entertaining sides I've ever seen, with an admittedly brilliant squad but he's surely played a part in putting that together.

 

I am confident he would represent an upgrade on Puel.

Puel himself did ok at Monaco didn't he,  he actually won the league playing attractive football. This guy had a decent season but for some reason got the push, I wonder why? He can be as tactically flexible as he wants but if he hasn't got the players to suit those tactics, like Puel,  he'll be stumped. I'm not saying that Puel is the answer but we're being nieve if we think that we're going to do much better until we've ditched our deadwood and bought a more balanced group of fit for purpose players.  The club no doubt bought with the best intentions but quite a number of ageing players just couldn't adapt to the Premiership. Guadiola himself couldn't turn this lot into champions and look how long it's taken Klopp to put together the current Liverpool side. Klopp and Guadiola were proven, this man isn't and represents more of a risk than Puel was when he came.

[TeamRocket]

Risk it and get anyone who can show the players where then net is

[Vestan Pance]

1 hour ago, lcfc sheff said:

Forgive me if it’s already been mentioned as I haven’t read through the entire thread...

 

but what would people say to a Martin and Roy combo at our club? 

Siegfried and Roy is more likely.

[elvisfmcfly]

6 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Looking at our squad and their capabilities in terms of changing their style of play, we have a limited squad. 

Players I would call "one dimensional" that don't have the ability to really utilise new ways of football:
- Wes 
- Albrighton 
- Simpson
- King
- Okazaki

- Silva

- Benalouane

- James

 

Then we look at players that could be moulded but still need work:
- Ghezzal
- Gray
- Amartey
- Iheanacho
- Soyuncu 
- Diabate

- Ndidi 
- Mendy

That's a large amount of players that really are not the finished article, won't feature or have shown no or little ability to change their style of play. 

Of those lists we should be looking to replace atleast 7 of them, that's a bench and more of options to switch up a game. Whoever the new manager is they really are not going to do anything unless they are allowed to replace atleast 7 of the fringe players, and a new manager may even command an entirely new way of thinking and need to replace even more than that!

 

Regardless of what people think of Puel, his signings have looked fine and the squad he would leave behind is definitely more diverse than when he arrived. 

But by that rational then a new manager may be able to better utilise the players he already has at his disposal.

[Dan LCFC]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Puel himself did ok at Monaco didn't he,  he actually won the league playing attractive football. This guy had a decent season but for some reason got the push, I wonder why? He can be as tactically flexible as he wants but if he hasn't got the players to suit those tactics, like Puel,  he'll be stumped. I'm not saying that Puel is the answer but we're being nieve if we think that we're going to do much better until we've ditched our deadwood and bought a more balanced group of fit for purpose players.  The club no doubt bought with the best intentions but quite a number of ageing players just couldn't adapt to the Premiership. Guadiola himself couldn't turn this lot into champions and look how long it's taken Klopp to put together the current Liverpool side. Klopp and Guadiola were proven, this man isn't and represents more of a risk than Puel was when he came.

I get what you're saying and I'm not deluded enough to think a manager will come in here and turn us into Barcelona, but I'm just not sold at all on the direction Puel is taking us in - there's been some quite blind acceptance of it by a number of our fans and I'm yet to see evidence that what we're supposedly working towards is actually any good. We played some very good football under him early doors, granted, but it was definitely helped by Mahrez producing his best form since the title winning season and lets be honest, you can't base your whole argument on 7/8 games at the start over the 38 more recent ones.

 

And just for some more context on those 38 games, a whole season's worth of games, we've picked up 43 points in them which over the last five years gets you 14th three times, one 13th and one 12th, of which we've played only ten games against 'big six' sides when your season will consist of twelve of those. So to simplify, we are producing 13th/14th finish form with an easier than normal run. That just isn't one bit good enough I'm afraid. We can do better than that.

 

I do think the club's on the right track in the long term and signings like Benkovic, Maddison, Ricardo and Soyuncu are all sensible - players with a high ceiling in the game who could genuinely go far, but we look some way off making use of this at the minute and I think a change in manager is what's needed. I get that our fans have been a bit spoilt but the fanbase hasn't felt this flat in a long time and the fact nearly a carbon copy happened at Southampton tells me there's more to it than that.

[Suzie the Fox]

7 hours ago, murphy said:

I haven't read this whole thread, it's too depressing but  I voted in,  I have never known our fan base to be so divided about a manager hence the satisfaction that seems to appear with every bad result and performance.  It's almost tribal now.

 

I think there is a common misconception among the 'outers' that the in crowd think that Puel is the best thing since sliced bread.   Personally, I don't.  He wasn't my choice in the beginning and if we were to go back in time he still wouldn't be.  Nobody is happy with insipid performances and losses like this one and often I don't really care for the style of football myself. 

 

The difference, I suppose, is that some of us don't need a change of manager every time we hit some turbulence.  I think there is a lot to be said for stability at the moment, particularly in light of recent events.  I really think that going back to square one with a different manager will be taking us backwards. 

 

We are in no danger of relegation, so let's give him the chance to see this through.

Very eloquently put and what is exactly in my head right now.

Edited 17 December 2018 by Suzie the Fox

[Keiriel]

6 hours ago, lcfc sheff said:

Forgive me if it’s already been mentioned as I haven’t read through the entire thread...

 

but what would people say to a Martin and Roy combo at our club? 

In all honesty, I'd sooner take Father Ted and Dougal.

[Nicolo Barella]

7 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Theres more to whether a manager is a success or not as to whether they play 4-2-3-1 or not. Its evident we need to be comfortable playing possession football as a lot of teams now sit back and prevent the counter attack. What is hindering us is God awful lucky dip team selections, what appears to be the team talk equivalent of valium before games and an inability to get a creative central midfielder in and midfield two.

 

Jardim could have the exact same style of play but just not be a complete poltis.

To be fair, a lot of the changes Puel makes are due to injuries - especially at CB recently, and the AM when Gray was injured.  And it's not like we've been a good first half team only since Puel arrived, it's been a problem for a while. That said, Mendy + Ndidi is the source of many of our problems I think. 

[Nicolo Barella]

3 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I get that our fans have been a bit spoilt but the fanbase hasn't felt this flat in a long time and the fact nearly a carbon copy happened at Southampton tells me there's more to it than that.

Southampton was quite a different situation. The board sold all their best players and then refused to even pretend to replace them. Puel was left with trying to get goals out of Redmond and Shane Long. Most any manager in that setup is doomed to fail in the long run, as Hughes and Pellegrino showed. Now Hassenhuttl is at Southampton it will be interesting to see if the board supports him better.

[AjcW]

9 hours ago, lcfc sheff said:

Forgive me if it’s already been mentioned as I haven’t read through the entire thread...

 

but what would people say to a Martin and Roy combo at our club? 

Christ. He’d make Puelball look like Barcelona during the Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Ronaldinho days!!

 

Washed up, refuses to learn, literally sent an entire nation to sleep for the last three years. 

 

As for Keane ?

Edited 17 December 2018 by AjcW

[volpeazzurro]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I get what you're saying and I'm not deluded enough to think a manager will come in here and turn us into Barcelona, but I'm just not sold at all on the direction Puel is taking us in - there's been some quite blind acceptance of it by a number of our fans and I'm yet to see evidence that what we're supposedly working towards is actually any good. We played some very good football under him early doors, granted, but it was definitely helped by Mahrez producing his best form since the title winning season and lets be honest, you can't base your whole argument on 7/8 games at the start over the 38 more recent ones.

 

And just for some more context on those 38 games, a whole season's worth of games, we've picked up 43 points in them which over the last five years gets you 14th three times, one 13th and one 12th, of which we've played only ten games against 'big six' sides when your season will consist of twelve of those. So to simplify, we are producing 13th/14th finish form with an easier than normal run. That just isn't one bit good enough I'm afraid. We can do better than that.

 

I do think the club's on the right track in the long term and signings like Benkovic, Maddison, Ricardo and Soyuncu are all sensible - players with a high ceiling in the game who could genuinely go far, but we look some way off making use of this at the minute and I think a change in manager is what's needed. I get that our fans have been a bit spoilt but the fanbase hasn't felt this flat in a long time and the fact nearly a carbon copy happened at Southampton tells me there's more to it than that.

I think that's very reasonable and the point about the stats combined with  Mahrez etc are both completely valid. Let's face it, the stats aren't great are they. I suppose I just didn't personally expect anything different really, yet it's frustrating nevertheless. Looking at the mismatching state of our squad, combined with some alleged disharmony when Shakespeare got the sack, I thought whoever we got in had a mammoth task because we were seemingly were going only one way fast.

 

If we could have sold certain players quick that may have helped alleviate things but, any new manager, quite rightly, needs to evaluate his stock and their ability or not to adapt to a new style of play that was entirely necessary. Puel did this as did Klopp and Guadiola let's not forget.

 

I'm  not 100% convinced by everything myself but like Guadiola, whilst I'm sure Puel recognises that the performances on the pitch don't equal what's in his head, he also recognises like Guadiola he needs a change in personnel. The difference being that Man City had much more saleable quality assetts compared to our ageing long contract high earning difficult to shift ones. Some of our players may also unhealthily weild some considerable power compared with the 'perform or be shifted out' attitude of Guadiolas more powerful and quality player laden club. Undoubtedly, Puel is having to internally complete quite an unpleasant and unpopular hatchet job, but boy does it need one, yet the the complexity of some of the players contractual situations and saleability make it problematic.

 

You can't replace a Mahrez easily, players like that are almost a once in a lifetime purchase at that price and we couldn't attract or pay for such a finished article. The young players you mentioned are the start of a different approach by the club which I feel will work ... eventually and therein lies the problem. They wil need help (and time to develop) but that also will take at least another summer transfer window. What is happening at the moment is, I agree, not great but may be a necessary price to pay for the long term regardless of whether Puel stays or not. My fear would be that to change horses now in the midst of a plan could either derail the club or merely extend the pain and mediocrity instead of remaining steadfast and aiming high. Any new manager coming in will also need to evaluate his stock over a season before spending yet even more money on his philosophy or vision which also may or may not work. Recent purchases have been better and you can at least see a logic there. I understand also the view that a new manager could come in and get this current crop to play a different system, but is this not just a clambering for short term solutions rather than sticking to longer term ambitions in a system with more longevity in it? Sometimes it takes courage to stick to a plan or an investment when returns in the short term appear poor. The alternative is to blindly follow the majority of the Premiership in the quick results or get sacked managerial model. Understandable if you're about to be relegated but if not, sometimes daring to be different and adding a bit of stability could pay off in the long run. Just my thoughts.

[oadby.fox]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I get what you're saying and I'm not deluded enough to think a manager will come in here and turn us into Barcelona, but I'm just not sold at all on the direction Puel is taking us in - there's been some quite blind acceptance of it by a number of our fans and I'm yet to see evidence that what we're supposedly working towards is actually any good. We played some very good football under him early doors, granted, but it was definitely helped by Mahrez producing his best form since the title winning season and lets be honest, you can't base your whole argument on 7/8 games at the start over the 38 more recent ones.

 

And just for some more context on those 38 games, a whole season's worth of games, we've picked up 43 points in them which over the last five years gets you 14th three times, one 13th and one 12th, of which we've played only ten games against 'big six' sides when your season will consist of twelve of those. So to simplify, we are producing 13th/14th finish form with an easier than normal run. That just isn't one bit good enough I'm afraid. We can do better than that.

 

I do think the club's on the right track in the long term and signings like Benkovic, Maddison, Ricardo and Soyuncu are all sensible - players with a high ceiling in the game who could genuinely go far, but we look some way off making use of this at the minute and I think a change in manager is what's needed. I get that our fans have been a bit spoilt but the fanbase hasn't felt this flat in a long time and the fact nearly a carbon copy happened at Southampton tells me there's more to it than that.

This sums up my feelings pretty well.

 

It makes sense to look at the bigger picture rather than cherry picking a few good games, and when you do then it doesn't make for particularly inspiring reading. 

 

Having said that I do think that it might be best to wait until the Summer to make a move to replace Puel as it'll probably be quite difficult to do mid season. Moreover, I can see why some fans might be happy with the stability that Puel seems to bring. We don't seem to be at risk of relegation and you know what you will get 90% of the time; turgid and lifeless football, no tempo and bizarre tactical choices. However, we will only be safe from relegation if we keep managing to pick up results against the lesser sides and even that will require us to perform sometimes. In other words, if we continue to rely on the opposition being absolutely awful every Saturday to aid us in the search for 3 points then of course we will gradually slip down the table and the nature of such a mentality will surely effect the squads morale. In the long term (over the next year or so), there would have to be change both in terms of results and performances to avoid losing our best talent.

 

That is something which the more patient of the FT faithful seem to forget. The most talented of this young group of players will seek to kick onto the next level if it feels like the club is regressing, and when that happens we will be back to square one and talking about how Puel doesn't have the right players to implement his style. The fact of the matter is, is that for a club like us, we probably only have a limited amount of time to utilise our best players before they look for greener pastures. It is the duty of the manager to get the best out of them whilst they're here, and push on to achieve as high a finish as possible to tempt them to stay and tempt other players to join us and strengthen. That's how you gradually improve. 

 

The second point which should undermine the claim about the playing squad and how it supposedly prevents Puel from playing his way, is that he still picks Wes every game without fail. We spent over £30m on new CB's in the Summer. Defenders that were supposedly brought in to phase out the aging Morgan, players who were more adept on the ball. What makes people think that in other positions, Puel isn't happy with what he's got? He's said he's pretty much happy with his squad (except for it being bloated) and Morgan still gets the nod ahead of virtually anyone else. Given that Morgan was often pinpointed by pretty much every single fan on here last season as one of the players that prevented us from playing a more possession based style, we should be questioning why he is being continually played. Why aren't the new players he brought in good enough to replace him or to play Puel's style, given that they were signed during his tenure? What makes fans think that this pattern wouldn't happen across the team in other positions even when we do make new signings? It's just like people now crying out for a target man given that the tactic seems to be to push it out wide and put crosses in. If that was Puel's great forward thinking vision, then why did he let our two target men leave without replacement? These are worries that the manager has to answer for and there's an inconsistency here as well.

 

I just want to see signs of improvement, first and foremost in our performances because this generally translates into improved results over time and better form. I can't see it happening over this season but I would love to be proven wrong!

 

[siraaj_lcfc]

Wenger Out... I mean in!