Corona Virus

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, rachhere said:

I have a friend who works in ICU just outside of London and she has been saying the same - they finally feel like they can cope with the numbers needing to come into ICU, and last I heard no deaths over a 24 hour period. Her message (after a lot of despair over the past few weeks) was to keep doing what we are doing as they can see that it's working. 

My ex works at Glenfield. She said it was virtually empty yesterday. One patient on her respiratory ward in a side room. That was it. They spent a 12 hour shift deep cleaning the ward as there was nothing to do.

 

All the usual malingerers have been awol for weeks.

 

But worryingly the genuinely ill with usual chest and heart conditions usually admitted by GPs and walk in centres are awol.too.

 

 

[BlueSi13]

28 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I’ve never met him, but he’s been on the board for years and mentioned he's a nurse in London long before this kicked off. I have no reason to think he’s been building up a fantasy life for years so I’d vouch for him.
 

There’s nothing wrong with staying positive but the input from frontline workers is pretty valuable considering they’re the ones with boots on the ground and the professional expertise to give us the best picture of how we’re actually coping in hospitals.

Absolutely.  Completely agree with you.  I am privileged to know enough people in the NHS to understand the unprecedented challenge it is currently facing (will openly admit I don't know anyone who works for the NHS in London though).

 

However his accusations were that the REAL reason the Nightingale Hospital in London is barely being used is because:

A) They haven't got the staff

and 

B) It's all a Boris publicity stunt anyway

 

These accusations are absolutely HUGE and I for one would be very interested in reading some evidence behind it.  Because if it's true that the British government roped in thousands of people and spent millions of pounds on a white elephant PR stunt as thousands lay dead or dying then it would be one of the biggest scandals in British political history.   It would almost certainly bring the government down as well as Public Health England.

 

So for me at the moment it's believe that or believe what every media outlet is reporting which is that we haven't been hit as hard as we originally feared...yet.

[z-layrex]

36 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Valuable yes as it tells us about experience on the frontline; however I would counter that unless he actually works in the Nightingale or is part of the team staffing it then it is highly likely he is repeating what is essentially gossip.  It is easy to imagine people questioning how it could be staffed turns into rumours that it cannot be.

I don't really know how to respond without saying more on a public forum than I should.

 

All I can say is that I've been a member here for years, everything I have said during these past weeks has been my honest accounting of whats going on. Nothing I post is "gossip".

[Stivo]

The WHO did lead a global immunisation campaign to irradiate smallpox in 1977.  Smallpox killed 300M in the 20th century alone so perhaps they deserved a bit of slack.

 

For new diseases the role of the WHO is as a reporting agency to receive reports, collect and share information, track the progress of the disease, warn other countries and help coordinate the development of tests.

 

It isnt in charge and it doesn’t tell countries what to do with information.

 

The WHO has published daily situation reports throughout you can read them here.

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports

 

Have  a read and see what you believe they did wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

[January47]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

The World Health Organisation dropped a b*llock at the start but when they were saying test, test, test and contact trace in February and March, which countries weren't doing that? The US and UK? Who now has disproportionately large outbreaks compared to other countries, the US and the UK. All Trump is doing is making it look like the WHO are to blame, and absolving himself of any blame. Only his core base will buy it. Pretty much everyone messed up besides the countries which have actually controlled it by listening to WHO guidance (South Korea, Germany, Taiwan, Aus & NZ for example). 

I'm not getting into argument about Trump and all strangeness but if you look at who actually funds these organisatuons, WHO, NATO etc its by far the US who are the biggest contributors. (we contribute a lot as well). A lot of countries like to moan about the Americans but what it comes to putting their hands in their pockets are often a lot more reticent.

[Guest MattP]

17 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

My ex works at Glenfield. She said it was virtually empty yesterday. One patient on her respiratory ward in a side room. That was it. They spent a 12 hour shift deep cleaning the ward as there was nothing to do.

 

All the usual malingerers have been awol for weeks.

 

But worryingly the genuinely ill with usual chest and heart conditions usually admitted by GPs and walk in centres are awol.too.

Can back this up as well. I quote "we've got a lot of nurses just standing around doing nothing".

 

Numbers appear to be pretty good in Leicester and Leicestershire though in comparison so this obviously not the same as London or Birmingham.

[Jon the Hat]

21 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

I don't really know how to respond without saying more on a public forum than I should.

 

All I can say is that I've been a member here for years, everything I have said during these past weeks has been my honest accounting of whats going on. Nothing I post is "gossip".

I don't mean any disrespect - maybe Gossip isnt the right word;  I find it hard to believe you are right on the Nightingale hospital;  I have no doubt it is a hell of a challenge to staff it.

[Finnaldo]

14 minutes ago, MattP said:

Can back this up as well. I quote "we've got a lot of nurses just standing around doing nothing".

 

Numbers appear to be pretty good in Leicester and Leicestershire though in comparison so this obviously not the same as London or Birmingham.

My mate had to take his little’un in yesterday (non-Covid related) and he said even the Royal was pretty much empty from what he saw as well. Seems we’ve missed the storm thus far...

[Lionator]

37 minutes ago, January47 said:

I'm not getting into argument about Trump and all strangeness but if you look at who actually funds these organisatuons, WHO, NATO etc its by far the US who are the biggest contributors. (we contribute a lot as well). A lot of countries like to moan about the Americans but what it comes to putting their hands in their pockets are often a lot more reticent.

True, of course although I guess that's another debate. I suppose it's the symbolism of Trumps move, it's very un-American in the context of the modern world.

 

I should hope that out of this, there is some sort of global healthcare reform as clearly the WHO failed when it was most important. Freezing funding now however is an idiotic move. 

[st albans fox]

25 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I don't mean any disrespect - maybe Gossip isnt the right word;  I find it hard to believe you are right on the Nightingale hospital;  I have no doubt it is a hell of a challenge to staff it.

Isn’t that precisely what he was saying ?

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

My mate had to take his little’un in yesterday (non-Covid related) and he said even the Royal was pretty much empty from what he saw as well. Seems we’ve missed the storm thus far...

According to nurses I know, in LRI. A&E admissions are down by as much as half. Similar in Huddersfield and Hereford.

Its definitely the big (metropolitan?) cities that are worse hit. 
Our acute/critical care is apparently running near full capacity though. I know quite a few nurses that have had departments moved or closed and are having to use their skill sets in areas they are not necessarily trained for or have up to date skills in.

[whoareyaaa]

39 minutes ago, January47 said:

I'm not getting into argument about Trump and all strangeness but if you look at who actually funds these organisatuons, WHO, NATO etc its by far the US who are the biggest contributors. (we contribute a lot as well). A lot of countries like to moan about the Americans but what it comes to putting their hands in their pockets are often a lot more reticent.

Bill gates foundation is the second biggest contributor to WHO now which doesn't say a lot about the contribution other countries provide either.

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Isn’t that precisely what he was saying ?

Well no, he was saying is isn't staffed, and that is why there are very few patients.  I think they do have the staffing to manage the 400 beds they have said are available, and have low numbers becuase existing hospitals are coping at the moment.  I think the stay at home message has been a lot more succesful than expected.

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

According to nurses I know, in LRI. A&E admissions are down by as much as half. Similar in Huddersfield and Hereford.

Its definitely the big (metropolitan?) cities that are worse hit. 
Our acute/critical care is apparently running near full capacity though. I know quite a few nurses that have had departments moved or closed and are having to use their skill sets in areas they are not necessarily trained for or have up to date skills in.

Same here, our friends orthapaedic clinic has become minor injuries unit (part of the majoy disaster plan to free up A&E) so they have gone from 9-5 opening to 24/7 which is a bit of a shock to the system.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Well no, he was saying is isn't staffed, and that is why there are very few patients.  I think they do have the staffing to manage the 400 beds they have said are available, and have low numbers becuase existing hospitals are coping at the moment.  I think the stay at home message has been a lot more succesful than expected.

Well it’s bit of a a chicken /egg situation aswell. Without the demand for the nightingale being as high as expected (due to existing arrangements whereby hospital ITU units have been expanded massively and the lockdown being observed well) there isn’t the urgency to find the staff .... ..... 

[reynard]

Let's hope the reports on here are backed up with today's figures on hospital admissions.

 

The PPE situation seems to be getting better. A friend of mine knows someone who works in one of the Leicester hospitals who told her last weekend that they had plenty of what they needed.

My wife and brother-in-law both work in the care sector and now have access to PPE which is a relief.

 

The testing however, seems to remain a bit of a shambles. My cousin works at the big testing centre in London. Apparently whatever the government are saying there simply isn't the stuff to do the tests in the numbers required to get close to 100k per day. This was info from 5 days ago so things might have changed but they were adamant about this. Pie in the sky was the expression used.

Seems we really have to get this sorted out in the next few weeks to have any hope of a proper exit route.

Edited 15 April 2020 by reynard

[urban.spaceman]

15 hours ago, Parafox said:

No Covid jobs for me today, responding on the car.

2 calls to people having fits, an elderly fall, a diabetic problem and a young mum who hanged herself. 

 

This post has stayed with me all day, particularly the highlighted. So desperately sad. I honestly don't know how you do this job mate.

[The Blur]

My mum's friend works in senior management at one of the most busiest hospitals in London-  apparently there have been a significant decline in COVID-19 cases which is a positive.    I appreciate this is purely anecdotal and is little of value however this appears to be consistent with other posts on here.    However,  I like all of you I am sure,  am taking this with a pinch of salt until we see this being widely reported.    

[Alf Bentley]

On 12/04/2020 at 22:52, Kopfkino said:

 

Its a bit difficult to believe that some of the more vociferous voices against the government aren't motivated, at least in part, by politics when they've hardly been covert in their criticism of almost everything about the PM or his party prior to the crisis. 

 

[...]

 

Of course much of the criticism is likely valid whether its political or cold hard unbiased analysis. I'm not personally minded to be particularly critical because as long as they're working with the best intentions, I prefer to leave the criticism until after when there's the time to comb through it all to understand why different things happened and all the variables that affected actions can be considered properly, rather than emotive heat of the moment stuff. It is of no use harping on about not cancelling Cheltenham at the moment. Likewise, imo Femi's point has so little value it's a really weird thing to say. Questions should still be asked when key failings seemingly arise and the questions elicit a useful response (on PPE and testing). 

 

On 14/04/2020 at 13:13, Kopfkino said:

 

[...]

 

What I will confidently say is that institutions matter hugely. And like you're worried that after this that China will be scapegoated so that governments let themselves off the hook, I worry that lots of people will just blame governments probably based on a very simplistic measure like number of deaths per x of the population, with very little consideration of the context and unique situations they are working in. The whole thing is far more complex than anybody really makes it out to be. Government isn't quite as simple as sprinkling a little bit of leadership onto some advice from a range of experts with a little bit of luck thrown in, then communicating with relevant people and voila we have great outcomes. 

 

3 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

But he [Trump] is one of few that would do so I can just about get on board. It'd be good if we did the same, no idea we're paying for China's rent boy [WHO]

 

1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

 

What is a the point in it being a PR organisation just parroting whatever information they are given. Comfortably the worst argument possible, 'why do you expect the WHO to do their job'. Jesus wept. 

 

Quite simple really, cutting its funding is part of binning it off and starting again. If it just exists to repeat erroneous information I think we'll cope just fine without it in its present form. 

 

Do you have any links to evidence (not unfounded opinion) proving that the WHO is "China's rent boy" and "a PR organisation just parroting whatever information they are given"? 

 

If the WHO did just "repeat erroneous information" (provided by China, I assume), how should it have obtained the correct information before the virus left China?

Does the WHO have better sources of intelligence within China than major national governments?

 

I agree that the situation is complex and that there should be "consideration of the context and unique situations [govts] are working in", not just simplistic blaming of governments. I also agree that most of the analysis of the culpability (or not) of different institutions needs to wait and be done thoroughly after the crisis is resolved - apart from issues that can improve the ongoing crisis management like testing and PPE, as you say.

 

But there seems to be a disparity in your attitude to governments and to the WHO.

 

If I understand you correctly, you're saying:

 

- The WHO response was culpably inadequate as it relied on false info from China. This makes it "China's rent boy" and a "PR organisation" that should be "binned off".

 

- Governments (particularly the UK Tory Govt) should not be blamed prematurely as they relied on false info from China. You're not minded to be "particularly critical [of the govt] so long as they're working with the best intentions" and "prefer to leave criticism until after" (with a few exceptions). It's "no use harping on about" Cheltenham", you "worry that lots of people will just blame governments" simplistically and "it's difficult to believe that some of the more vociferous voices against the govt aren't motivated, at least in part, by politics".....

 

To be fair, I'm sure you'd accept that yours might also be one of the "vociferous voices....motivated at least in part by politics"!  

[Wymsey]

Ever since the lockdown, day-to-day, it appears that more people are venturing out (with some ignoring the social-distancing rules).

[brucey]

2 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

My ex works at Glenfield. She said it was virtually empty yesterday. One patient on her respiratory ward in a side room. That was it. They spent a 12 hour shift deep cleaning the ward as there was nothing to do.

 

All the usual malingerers have been awol for weeks.

 

But worryingly the genuinely ill with usual chest and heart conditions usually admitted by GPs and walk in centres are awol.too.

 

And the ones who do pitch up at A&E seem sicker than usual. There's been even a few incidents of children dying due to reluctance of parents to bring them to hospital. 

 

A significant amount of my job involves cancer screening, diagnosis and follow up, and that work has essentially disappeared so I'm twiddling my thumbs a lot too. The effects of all these treatment delays are not going to be fun. 

[Lionator]

A decline in the increase of cases and hospital admissions would be expected given that it's been 3 weeks since the lockdown began. 

 

Either way, it's good news and shows if things do become dire in future, we have a way to slow it down dramatically. 

[String fellow]

When this terrible crisis has finally gone away, will governments around the world set up an international court to decide if the Chinese government is guilty of manslaughter on an epic scale, due to gross negligence? And I wonder how the Chinese population in general view the unfolding international situation? 

[st albans fox]

11 minutes ago, Lionator said:

A decline in the increase of cases and hospital admissions would be expected given that it's been 3 weeks since the lockdown began. 

 

Either way, it's good news and shows if things do become dire in future, we have a way to slow it down dramatically. 

If the social distancing is being less effective (anecdotal evidence says yes) then we can expect a resurgence in two/three weeks but likely to manifest itself in hot spots rather than countrywide .....

[Leicester_Loyal]

Nothing will happen to China IMO, we'll just carry on as normal and still continue to buy their products.