Also in the news

[Bamboo]

38 minutes ago, StanSP said:

The fact she's been murdered by a Police Officer probably makes anything else secondary. 

 

I think you're genuinely missing the most important part of the whole story. The bigger picture, you might say. Why does it matter why she was around her friend's house when you take in to account what happened later that evening ?

What if the lady visiting her friends house isn’t irrelevant, then what? 

[Collymore]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

We don't actually know she went into her friends house do we? Just that she left at 9pm. She could simply have been there to drop something off and have a catch up without going in. Maybe they went for a run or walk together, which is allowed. As others have said though it's hardly the most pressing matter in this anyway.

 

This whole case is weird though. She went missing in Clapham, London. The guy who's arrested lives in Deal, right out in the Kent coast, and the body was found in Ashford. Its a pretty large area that's covered. I suppose more will come out as this goes on, but I wonder what they discovered in their search in London that lead them to Deal, and what they then found that took them to Ashford. They seem to have zoned in pretty quickly on a suspect and search area for the body consider how far apart they were.

From what I can tell she was in the house as the police report says she leaves by the back door I think... 

 

Yes it all very odd -  the suspect being a policeman you'd have thought would be good at covering his tracks so you wouldn't have thought he'd done something as simple as leaving his phone in his pocket... It's really odd that his wife has been arrested too. 

 

I remember they caught that crossbow murderer in Wales from his car having a GPS chip in it that was communicating with the dealership I think.. from what I recall it was the only reason he was caught and a stroke of luck...

 

I'd imagine the detectives have so many tricks we're not aware of and not readily available online either... 

[twister]

19 minutes ago, Collymore said:

From what I can tell she was in the house as the police report says she leaves by the back door I think... 

 

Yes it all very odd -  the suspect being a policeman you'd have thought would be good at covering his tracks so you wouldn't have thought he'd done something as simple as leaving his phone in his pocket... It's really odd that his wife has been arrested too. 

 

I remember they caught that crossbow murderer in Wales from his car having a GPS chip in it that was communicating with the dealership I think.. from what I recall it was the only reason he was caught and a stroke of luck...

 

I'd imagine the detectives have so many tricks we're not aware of and not readily available online either... 

I think I can give a good perspective here I have worked in the courts

 

again the invesitgation will be a big one with lots of linked leads but again they wont want anything out in the press than the things they have to say otherwise it can collapse the case.

 

I imagine due to it being in such a wealthy area , and the media profile of case means the team on it was huge. Not being cynical but that tends to be the case

 

 

Edited 10 March 2021 by twister

[SecretPro]

Sounds like the body is in a bad way because police have said it will take ages to identify. Decomposition wouldn't be that speedy in a week so he's clearly chopped her up too. Weird case, brutal, quite shocking. 

[SecretPro]

1 hour ago, Collymore said:

 

 

 

Jesus, talk about people flying off the handle!

 

It's just that everyone was saying she was behaving completely normal and the police seemed like they were desperate for the smallest clue. I just found it odd that it was never mentioned why she was around her friend's home in lockdown. To me that doesn't seem like normal behaviour, unless of course she was in a bubble, but then I would have thought that would have been mentioned.

Wasn't having a pop at you mate by the way, just baffled that that was the first thing that came to mind  had the feeling of when people in shock say something totally unrelated "Peggy, I'm afraid your son is dead", "oh, well, its lovely and sunny out". 

 

You've explained your thinking now anyway! 

[StanSP]

30 minutes ago, Bamboo said:

What if the lady visiting her friends house isn’t irrelevant, then what? 

Well then I'm sure the police will investigate and do their job to find out. 

 

As far as we know, it is irrelevant. And speculating about a woman's death when we don't know the full facts doesn't sit right with me. 

[Bamboo]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Well then I'm sure the police will investigate and do their job to find out. 

 

As far as we know, it is irrelevant. And speculating about a woman's death when we don't know the full facts doesn't sit right with me. 

Out of curiosity, why doesn’t it sit right with you? 

[Nod.E]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

 

I just don't think it really matters, though, does it?

 

I don't see the blame apportion either so wasn't getting at @Collymore for that, just that it's totally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Crossed my mind as well to be honest. Apparently it was friend(s) plural so I doubt it's a bubble thing.

 

Obviously there are bigger issues at stake ( murder is a slightly bigger issue than a lockdown misdemeanor ) 

 

It's more a separate observation of 'bugger me how many people must be casually breaking lockdown'. I'm allowed to have parallel thoughts without attributing blame or sympathising with the victim any less.

 

Wasn't the first observation either, of course. Absolutely sickening case. Telegraph reporting that the information which led to the arrest was from a London Bus' CCTV footage on the route she took.

 

Could it be as simple as seeing her being coerced into a car, track down the reg, job done?

Edited 10 March 2021 by Nod.E

[StanSP]

Wow. 

https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1369751549904359427?s=19

 

Edited 11 March 2021 by StanSP

[Fox92]

9 hours ago, Bamboo said:

Out of curiosity, why doesn’t it sit right with you? 

Someone has been murdered and I see people bringing up "oh what's she doing there in a pandemic". What's wrong with you all. She's been murdered!

 

If her visiting someone "isn't irrelevant", as you say, then I'm sure the Police will be looking into it. We have no clue why she was there. But in the meantime a person has been murdered and people are asking why she was there.

 

So sad that women stil cannot walk alone, especially at night.

[Footballwipe]

2 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Someone has been murdered and I see people bringing up "oh what's she doing there in a pandemic". What's wrong with you all. She's been murdered!

 

If her visiting someone "isn't irrelevant", as you say, then I'm sure the Police will be looking into it. We have no clue why she was there. But in the meantime a person has been murdered and people are asking why she was there.

 

So sad that women stil cannot walk alone, especially at night.

Damn right, so much indirect victim blaming going on here. Genuinely staggering, even by Foxestalk standards.

 

How silly of her; if only she hadn't been seeing a friend in lockdown (for reasons we don't know yet but will happily jump to conclusions), maybe the perpetrator wouldn't have murdered her.

[ClaphamFox]

1 hour ago, Footballwipe said:

Damn right, so much indirect victim blaming going on here. Genuinely staggering, even by Foxestalk standards.

 

How silly of her; if only she hadn't been seeing a friend in lockdown (for reasons we don't know yet but will happily jump to conclusions), maybe the perpetrator wouldn't have murdered her.

To be fair, I see more people complaining about others victim-blaming, than I see actual victim-blaming, on this thread.

[Buce]

 

I'm not sure about my feelings on this:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/10/two-teenagers-placed-in-foster-care-after-weight-loss-plan-fails

 

Is it really necessary to remove children from otherwise decent parents? Is it even society's business?

[Innovindil]

23 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I'm not sure about my feelings on this:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/10/two-teenagers-placed-in-foster-care-after-weight-loss-plan-fails

 

Is it really necessary to remove children from otherwise decent parents? Is it even society's business?

Wow that's a tough one. Honestly hard to fall on a side without more information. I'd say I lean towards the side of it's wrong and it shouldn't be society's business. Enough awful parents out there to focus on without going after those who's only flaw seems to be weight, especially during a pandemic when everyone is struggling sticking to exercise scheduals. If things like this become commonplace how long before adults are punished for being tubby?

 

On the other hand, these decisions are never taken lightly and the kids must have been some high level of obese to draw such attention. Maybe it IS for their own good. But don't think it sits right with me. 

[Chocolate Teapot]

3 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

Damn right, so much indirect victim blaming going on here. Genuinely staggering, even by Foxestalk standards.

 

How silly of her; if only she hadn't been seeing a friend in lockdown (for reasons we don't know yet but will happily jump to conclusions), maybe the perpetrator wouldn't have murdered her.

Weve now reached a level of judgement in society where a person visits her friend, is murdered and people are genuinely asking why no one has asked whether she was breaking the law or not by visiting a friend. What a weird weird society we live in.

[nnfox]

I don't think there's any victim blaming going on in here.  In the old days, it used to be called hindsight.  There was one comment that alluded to still being in lockdown (which is a fact) and that if she had stayed at home, would likely still be alive.  It's a bit like saying that the boy wouldn't have been stabbed to death if he wasn't dealing drugs, or the girl wouldn't have been raped if she didn't get wasted on drink and drugs and went home with a stranger, and the woman wouldn't have been murdered if she didn't marry her violent husband.

 

Her actions before her apparent kidnap are what they are.  It makes no difference to how it gets investigated.  For all we know (which is very little btw), her actions might have been entirely legitimate. 

 

Nobody is saying anything other than this incident is absolutely tragic and all our sympathies go out to her family and friends.

[David Guiza]

19 minutes ago, nnfox said:

I don't think there's any victim blaming going on in here.  In the old days, it used to be called hindsight.  There was one comment that alluded to still being in lockdown (which is a fact) and that if she had stayed at home, would likely still be alive.  It's a bit like saying that the boy wouldn't have been stabbed to death if he wasn't dealing drugs, or the girl wouldn't have been raped if she didn't get wasted on drink and drugs and went home with a stranger, and the woman wouldn't have been murdered if she didn't marry her violent husband.

 

Her actions before her apparent kidnap are what they are.  It makes no difference to how it gets investigated.  For all we know (which is very little btw), her actions might have been entirely legitimate. 

 

Nobody is saying anything other than this incident is absolutely tragic and all our sympathies go out to her family and friends.

That's literally victim blaming.

 

One could perhaps make an argument that the first example you gave has an element of lack of hindsight, maybe, but the other two are without question examples of victim blaming. I appreciate you're not doing so intentionally, but it is exactly that. I think there is a misconception as to what it is, which perhaps doesn't help. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

I doubt he meant anything by it, just let it be.

 

The body must be pretty bad if the police have said it'll take a while to identify it, poor bugger.

[leicsmac]

18 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

That's literally victim blaming.

 

One could perhaps make an argument that the first example you gave has an element of lack of hindsight, maybe, but the other two are without question examples of victim blaming. I appreciate you're not doing so intentionally, but it is exactly that. I think there is a misconception as to what it is, which perhaps doesn't help. 

It's Just World Fallacy at work, David.

 

Do "bad" things and it's your fault if bad things then happen to you, even if those bad things are solely caused by another party.

 

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I doubt he meant anything by it, just let it be.

 

The body must be pretty bad if the police have said it'll take a while to identify it, poor bugger.

Possibly not but considering the debate it has generated, perhaps other people did mean something by it.

[StanSP]

I think it's just generally a bit insensitive. He might not have intentionally victim-blamed but it's a bit of a moot point. 

[ClaphamFox]

Judging from reports of the scale of activity at the site in Ashford, and the fact that police have set up a command centre down there, it makes you wonder whether Sarah might not be the only victim they've found. An awful thought, I know...

[RonnieTodger]

Heartbreaking and really scary. 

 

Given some of things that went on at Victoria Park over the last couple of years, I really don't like that my girlfriend has to walk across there in the dark sometimes. She does things like call me whilst she's walking, but evidently that doesn't put some people off.

Edited 11 March 2021 by RonnieTodger

[Pliskin]

Sarah is a victim of the most hideous crime, she is not an example of what can happen when a bad choice is made. No one asks to be raped, assaulted or murdered. No woman (or anyone in general but for this case it is a female) should have to walk down a street and have to think about how to avoid being raped, assaulted or killed. 

 

In time we will begin to learn more about the facts, but for now all we know is a young female has tragically had her life taken, and the upmost needs to be done to ensure Justice is served. 

[Nod.E]

8 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

Damn right, so much indirect victim blaming going on here. Genuinely staggering, even by Foxestalk standards.

 

How silly of her; if only she hadn't been seeing a friend in lockdown (for reasons we don't know yet but will happily jump to conclusions), maybe the perpetrator wouldn't have murdered her.

I mean that literally isn't what was being said, but okay.

 

I see the men haters are out in full force today, and that 97% stat which is doing the rounds isn't helpful. I'd like to see the data collection that went into that figure. I'm not having that 97% of women have been 'harassed', unless it counts nothing comments (not that comments should go ignored, of course, but to chalk them up to harrassment is a stretch.)

 

To get to 97% of women harassed you either have to have a group of incredibly efficient harassers making their way around basically all women, or all men harassing. Both ideas are ridiculous.

 

Look, I'm aware that just by making this argument I appear insensitive, because the most important thing right now isn't the way men are perceived. Rest assured my initial reaction was one of sympathy for the victim and shock at the circumstances. But there are enough reactions in that line of thinking without me adding to it. What there isn't enough of is measured thinking, so I'll put my opinion on the matter in here for the purpose of balance. Better here than in reaction to friends' Instagram stories because it's a sure fire way to lose friends. I don't think it should be, because I'm making a logical argument. But people prefer to take a polarised and emotionally led view on these things.

 

One fvcking murder and all of a sudden it's fine to imply all men are pantie sniffing weirdos. Not helpful really is it?

 

EDIT: More than fine. Encouraged. Popular, even. I just find myself rolling my eyes at every new social bandwagon.

Edited 11 March 2021 by Nod.E

[David Guiza]

16 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

I mean that literally isn't what was being said, but okay.

 

I see the men haters are out in full force today, and that 97% stat which is doing the rounds isn't helpful. I'd like to see the data collection that went into that figure. I'm not having that 97% of women have been 'harassed', unless it counts nothing comments (not that comments should go ignored, of course, but to chalk them up to harrassment is a stretch.)

 

To get to 97% of women harassed you either have to have a group of incredibly efficient harassers making their way around basically all women, or all men harassing. Both ideas are ridiculous.

 

Look, I'm aware that just by making this argument I appear insensitive, because the most important thing right now isn't the way men are perceived. Rest assured my initial reaction was one of sympathy for the victim and shock at the circumstances. But there are enough reactions in that line of thinking without me adding to it. What there isn't enough of is measured thinking, so I'll put my opinion on the matter in here for the purpose of balance. Better here than in reaction to friends' Instagram stories because it's a sure fire way to lose friends. I don't think it should be, because I'm making a logical argument. But people prefer to take a polarised and emotionally led view on these things.

 

One fvcking murder and all of a sudden it's fine to imply all men are pantie sniffing weirdos. Not helpful really is it?

 

I can only speak from personal experience, but 100% of the women I've ever spoken to about that sort of things, which obviously isn't a huge amount as it's not the sort of conversation I tend to have with colleagues and acquaintances, have experienced some sort of unwanted attention. Ranging from literal sexual abuse, to being touched up in a nightclub on more than occasion etc. My Mum and Wife and completely different generations (thankfully!) but both have countless examples of some sort of harassment. In respect of your argument in your third paragraph, think about the amount of different people you have encountered in your entire life - it only takes a minimum of one of those people. 

 

The amount of women who feel uncomfortable leaving the house after sundown is astounding, and not without foundation either. I'm sure every man on here, myself included, can think of instances where male friends, colleagues, strangers in your environment etc, made inappropriate comments, gestures or the like at women. I can think of countless examples of football games, even if nothing else. Outside of being shouted at by chavs when out running, I can't think of a single incident where the same has happened to me or my male friends. 

 

It's blindingly obvious that it's not all men, not even close, and there is clearly a massive difference between committing a crime and just being 'a lad' but it all contributes to making somebody feel uncomfortable and, at times, afraid. It's also not about 'cancelling' men, or living in a world where you can't flirt etc. If one hasn't done anything wrong then they have nothing to feel guilty about, if they have then maybe reading some of the tweets and alike may make them reflect and change for the better.

 

Also, as with anything on social media, it's always going to be over the top. 

 

The whole story and related follow up is just depressing. I sincerely doubt it, but maybe this level of attention over harassment may lead to something positive.