Also in the news

[Wymsey]

Quite embarrassing for both her and the company she's employed at..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56359165

[Nod.E]

14 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

I can only speak from personal experience, but 100% of the women I've ever spoken to about that sort of things, which obviously isn't a huge amount as it's not the sort of conversation I tend to have with colleagues and acquaintances, have experienced some sort of unwanted attention. Ranging from literal sexual abuse, to being touched up in a nightclub on more than occasion etc. My Mum and Wife and completely different generations (thankfully!) but both have countless examples of some sort of harassment. In respect of your argument in your third paragraph, think about the amount of different people you have encountered in your entire life - it only takes a minimum of one of those people. 

 

The amount of women who feel uncomfortable leaving the house after sundown is astounding, and not without foundation either. I'm sure every man on here, myself included, can think of instances where male friends, colleagues, strangers in your environment etc, made inappropriate comments, gestures or the like at women. I can think of countless examples of football games, even if nothing else. Outside of being shouted at by chavs when out running, I can't think of a single incident where the same has happened to me or my male friends. 

 

It's blindingly obvious that it's not all men, not even close, and there is clearly a massive difference between committing a crime and just being 'a lad' but it all contributes to making somebody feel uncomfortable and, at times, afraid. It's also not about 'cancelling' men, or living in a world where you can't flirt etc. If one hasn't done anything wrong then they have nothing to feel guilty about, if they have then maybe reading some of the tweets and alike may make them reflect and change for the better.

 

Also, as with anything on social media, it's always going to be over the top. 

 

The whole story and related follow up is just depressing. I sincerely doubt it, but maybe this level of attention over harassment may lead to something positive. 

I can understand how the actions of some will have touched many in some way (heckles, inappropriate touching), which clearly is not okay. But that isn't 97%, I'm sorry but it just isn't. Only 90% of people have access to the internet, for Christ sake. Are people seriously asserting that harassment is more common than internet access?

 

I just get frustrated at the reactions, firstly because I'm a numbers guy and the lack of understanding just grinds my gears. Secondly because ironically it does absolutely nothing to help. Remember Brexit? Telling leavers that they were stupid didn't convince them to change their mind. Similarly, implying that all men are weirdos will not lead to behaviour change. And if it does, it'll be for the worse.

 

As usual, sensationalism doesn't help anybody.

[Blue and white]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14305581/murder-suspect-cop-wayne-couzens-hospital/

[Buce]

24 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

I can only speak from personal experience, but 100% of the women I've ever spoken to about that sort of things, which obviously isn't a huge amount as it's not the sort of conversation I tend to have with colleagues and acquaintances, have experienced some sort of unwanted attention. Ranging from literal sexual abuse, to being touched up in a nightclub on more than occasion etc. My Mum and Wife and completely different generations (thankfully!) but both have countless examples of some sort of harassment. In respect of your argument in your third paragraph, think about the amount of different people you have encountered in your entire life - it only takes a minimum of one of those people. 

 

The amount of women who feel uncomfortable leaving the house after sundown is astounding, and not without foundation either. I'm sure every man on here, myself included, can think of instances where male friends, colleagues, strangers in your environment etc, made inappropriate comments, gestures or the like at women. I can think of countless examples of football games, even if nothing else. Outside of being shouted at by chavs when out running, I can't think of a single incident where the same has happened to me or my male friends. 

 

It's blindingly obvious that it's not all men, not even close, and there is clearly a massive difference between committing a crime and just being 'a lad' but it all contributes to making somebody feel uncomfortable and, at times, afraid. It's also not about 'cancelling' men, or living in a world where you can't flirt etc. If one hasn't done anything wrong then they have nothing to feel guilty about, if they have then maybe reading some of the tweets and alike may make them reflect and change for the better.

 

Also, as with anything on social media, it's always going to be over the top. 

 

The whole story and related follow up is just depressing. I sincerely doubt it, but maybe this level of attention over harassment may lead to something positive. 

 

I've had this conversation with many women hiker friends - most of whom have hiked solo in wilderness areas for thousands of miles - and they all tell the same story, that they feel much safer 'out there' than they do back in 'civilisation'; not one of them had ever encountered any form of harrassment on the trail itself, but all had experienced it in trail towns. That's not to say it doesn't happen on the trail, but it's so rare as to be newsworthy via the hiker grapevine when it does.

 

I say this, not to imply that hikers are in any way special, but to suggest that the problem is perhaps limited to a certain kind of male and is perhaps not as universal as the statistics suggest.

 

 

[lcfcsnow]

Just now, Buce said:

 

I've had this conversation with many women hiker friends - most of whom have hiked solo in wilderness areas for thousands of miles - and they all tell the same story, that they feel much safer 'out there' than they do back in 'civilisation'; not one of them had ever encountered any form of harrassment on the trail itself, but all had experienced it in trail towns. That's not to say it doesn't happen on the trail, but it's so rare as to be newsworthy via the hiker grapevine when it does.

 

I say this, not to imply that hikers are in any way special, but to suggest that the problem is perhaps limited to a certain kind of male and is perhaps not as universal as the statistics suggest.

 

 

Do you know about the deaths of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon in 2014? I've spent the whole day reading up on it, sad that there is no proper explanation still. 

[Bamboo]

Have I just seen an article saying Men should have a 6pm curfew? What on earth is going on with people these days, Christ sake.

 

 

[twister]

14 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

Do you know about the deaths of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon in 2014? I've spent the whole day reading up on it, sad that there is no proper explanation still. 

in london weather your a women or a man you learn to be streetwise. For women its worse because they get harassed so much more.

 

I don't think I have ever been out and about in london thinking I can just  wander about without thinking who is behind me near me or around. Its a third instinct, I have had knifes pulled on me , lots etc  

 

I  have avoided a lot of club fights that way to , second instinct for getting out of situations before I am on the back end of a bottle.

[Nod.E]

3 minutes ago, Bamboo said:

Have I just seen an article saying Men should have a 6pm curfew? What on earth is going on with people these days, Christ sake.

 

 

Everyone should just lock themselves indoors. If the covid doesn't get you first it's the rapists. Stay indoors, folks.

[I am Rod Hull]

5 minutes ago, Bamboo said:

Have I just seen an article saying Men should have a 6pm curfew? What on earth is going on with people these days, Christ sake.

 

 

From a wacko Green party Lord, Baroness Jones in the House of Lords. She and her party are deluded and are only to be laughed at.

[String fellow]

Men are more than 3 times more likely to be killed by a stranger than women.

Edited 11 March 2021 by String fellow

[Buce]

9 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Men are more than 3 times more likely to be victims (of a stranger's attack) than women, so maybe men should have a 6pm curfew for their own safety.

 

Significantly, though, they are three times as likely to be victims of a male attacker.

[David Guiza]

38 minutes ago, Bamboo said:

Have I just seen an article saying Men should have a 6pm curfew? What on earth is going on with people these days, Christ sake.

 

 

Clearly a ridiculous statement, but I would guess that it is, to some degree at least, born out of the curfew that was given to women when the Yorkshire ripper was at large. I believe women were advised to not leave the house after 9pm, or similar. This lead to 'taking back the streets' protests, similar to what has been arranged for Saturday in London.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaim_the_Night

 

27 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Men are more than 3 times more likely to be killed by a stranger than women.

I always see people desperate to throw out stats like this. The same happened when the BLM protests were in full swing about more white people dying in police custody than black people, in spite of the fact that per person the odds were still heavily against them.

 

Why somebody would be looking to throw that sort of statistic out in a time where large numbers of women are clearly concerned is beyond me.

 

Anyway, I don't want to contribute any more to this story as it's just so awful and incredibly sad. Hopefully justice is served in whatever way possible and women (and men!) can feel safe in all aspects of their lives, especially when doing routine activities. 

Edited 11 March 2021 by David Guiza

[Hales]

The sarah case has really upset me. I work nightshifts and so go out all the time in my car on my own. I always jump in the car quick and lock the doors. As an all female night shift team we always message when we are home and walk one another to our cars. I think what's disturbed me the most is he is a policeman and as a woman on my own at night he would be someone I would trust. Its heart breaking.

[Bert]

It’s absolutely harrowing, that someone would do this. Let alone someone that’s supposed to serve and protect. Imagine it’s only going one way for him. Either will get done over by a lifer or do himself in. 
 

 

[Hales]

Something was seen on CCTV apparently or a bus camera. My first thought was maybe he used his ID to lure her into his car? Horrific. I can't get it out of my mind. I will certainly feel more uneasy going out to my night shift tonight.

[Corky]

A lot of talk about how men can modify their behaviour to make women feel safer and it's certainly made me think about how other people might view me and others. I'd never, ever consider harassing, verbally or physically, any woman, I always keep my distance (personally I don't like my own space being invaded) from others but I'd never considered that I might be viewed as a potential threat. I can recall a few occasions where someone in front of me has stopped and I've been allowed to overtake and walk ahead but again, never thought twice about it.

 

I think this incident may well trigger a few changes in behaviour from even non-threatening, quiet people. 

 

My thoughts go out to Sarah and her family, what a terrible ordeal this has been.

[Unabomber]

44 minutes ago, Bert said:

It’s absolutely harrowing, that someone would do this. Let alone someone that’s supposed to serve and protect. Imagine it’s only going one way for him. Either will get done over by a lifer or do himself in. 
 

 

Yeah I don’t get this like surely he knew it doing what he did it would at best lead to life in prison, and more likely death. The fact these nutters still do it blows my mind,

[String fellow]

54 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Clearly a ridiculous statement, but I would guess that it is, to some degree at least, born out of the curfew that was given to women when the Yorkshire ripper was at large. I believe women were advised to not leave the house after 9pm, or similar. This lead to 'taking back the streets' protests, similar to what has been arranged for Saturday in London.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaim_the_Night

 

I always see people desperate to throw out stats like this. The same happened when the BLM protests were in full swing about more white people dying in police custody than black people, in spite of the fact that per person the odds were still heavily against them.

 

Why somebody would be looking to throw that sort of statistic out in a time where large numbers of women are clearly concerned is beyond me.

 

Anyway, I don't want to contribute any more to this story as it's just so awful and incredibly sad. Hopefully justice is served in whatever way possible and women (and men!) can feel safe in all aspects of their lives, especially when doing routine activities. 

This seems a bit contradictory. In one line, you quote personal odds quite happily, then criticise me for doing the same thing!

[Tinman]

Doesn’t sound like the other blokes in Wandsworth nick have taken to the suspect. Rushed to hospital with serious head injuries.

[Unabomber]

Just now, Tinman said:

Doesn’t sound like the other blokes in Wandsworth nick have taken to the suspect. Rushed to hospital with serious head injuries.

I assumed he had ran into a wall to try and kill himself

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 hours ago, David Guiza said:

I can only speak from personal experience, but 100% of the women I've ever spoken to about that sort of things, which obviously isn't a huge amount as it's not the sort of conversation I tend to have with colleagues and acquaintances, have experienced some sort of unwanted attention. Ranging from literal sexual abuse, to being touched up in a nightclub on more than occasion etc.

This happened whilst I was out years ago, the female thought it was me that had touched her but it wasn't, she ended up sticking a glass in my face because she thought it was, to the point where I had to knock her out just to get her to stop attacking me. Bouncers dragged me out and roughed me up abit (not massively though tbf), they told me she was going to press charges against me etc. police were called, CCTV was checked and they reviewed the footage and saw it wasn't me and that she actually attacked me for no reason and I just defended myself. The club wouldn't even let me back in to sort myself out, I had blood pouring from my head/face and had to go to a pub nearly where I knew the bouncer to tidy myself up a bit.

 

In the end I told them I didn't wanna press charges against her, too much hassle and stress for what was meant to be a good night out.

 

In summary, make sure you're got the right bloke who has actually committed the crime before kicking off

 

[Bamboo]

9 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

I assumed he had ran into a wall to try and kill himself

Think he’s been watching too much X-Men, never going to work 

 

[StanSP]

32 minutes ago, Corky said:

A lot of talk about how men can modify their behaviour to make women feel safer and it's certainly made me think about how other people might view me and others. I'd never, ever consider harassing, verbally or physically, any woman, I always keep my distance (personally I don't like my own space being invaded) from others but I'd never considered that I might be viewed as a potential threat. I can recall a few occasions where someone in front of me has stopped and I've been allowed to overtake and walk ahead but again, never thought twice about it.

 

I think this incident may well trigger a few changes in behaviour from even non-threatening, quiet people. 

 

My thoughts go out to Sarah and her family, what a terrible ordeal this has been.

 

Thought about this, as well, and feel I'm in the same situation. I think it was this thread or another platform where I saw that even just crossing the road if you're behind a woman can give the right 'signal' that you're not a threat instead of walking behind them for however long and making them feel unsafe/insecure.

 

16 minutes ago, Tinman said:

Doesn’t sound like the other blokes in Wandsworth nick have taken to the suspect. Rushed to hospital with serious head injuries.

The fact he's a copper probably didn't help his cause either (not that I care).

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

Thought about this, as well, and feel I'm in the same situation. I think it was this thread or another platform where I saw that even just crossing the road if you're behind a woman can give the right 'signal' that you're not a threat instead of walking behind them for however long and making them feel unsafe/insecure.

 

The fact he's a copper probably didn't help his cause either (not that I care).

Do this all the time, do not feel it is being overly meek, just a bit considerate. Probably also conscious that I am well over 6ft, and have a bald head, and look like I could be a piece of work (soft as crap really) 

 

This whole thing is truly horrid, the facts aren’t here yet, but clearly something is seriously wrong, and taking advantage of a position of authority is nauseating.

[Facecloth]

36 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

Thought about this, as well, and feel I'm in the same situation. I think it was this thread or another platform where I saw that even just crossing the road if you're behind a woman can give the right 'signal' that you're not a threat instead of walking behind them for however long and making them feel unsafe/insecure.

 

The fact he's a copper probably didn't help his cause either (not that I care).

BBC News - Libby Squire murder: Pawel Relowicz's path from peeping Tom to killer https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-55848743

 

If you remember this one that was sentenced in January, he crossed the road, and seemed to act very naturally and unthreataning, but he was clearly watching her the whole time.