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filbertway

Coronavirus Thread

By filbertway, in General Chat

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CosbehFox

CosbehFox

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

I've been working in a secondary school for the past 6/7 weeks - first time I've ever really done it (I know - what a time to start!) and you absolutely wouldn't believe some of the nonsense. It might as well be normal. Here's some of what I've seen:

 

- kid had a test over the weekend, parents didn't inform us until the Tuesday morning that he'd tested positive, by which point he's had 6 classes

- different kid tests positive so they send half his class home - but not any in his brother's class or those that get the bus with him
- rule is you wear masks between classes and all stay behind a line in the classroom. That's literally unenforceable when you've got hundreds of teenagers all clumping together and then the really excited ones who literally cannot control themselves
- staff and teacher's rooms where there's barely enough space for 4 out of 5 staff in normal times so any semblance of social distancing goes out the window. Not even any effort from management to sort that. 

I'd say, on an average week, we're now seeing at least 2-3 teachers self isolating, as well as one or two support staff. There's also about 40-50 kids isolating across school every week. Saw a chart that showed year 9 (I think) down to 80% attendance. 

 

How would I solve it?

 

Shut the schools for 2 weeks (or even just one)
Use that time to introduce a rota system of blended learning, which priority for years 7 and 11
Aim to get kids in for 3 days over a week, with home-based projects to do on the other two days. EG - Year 7/11 do Mon, Tues, Weds, Year 10 do Tues, Weds, Thurs and year 8/9 do Thurs, Fri 

Couple that with reduced exams next year or courseworks, coupled with predicted grades and prioritise getting exams all done in June

Work with employers to highlight where there may be gaps in knowledge/ skills over the next 5 years so training can be prepared

Bulk create school meals that can be taken home and heated for those on Free School Meals

Pros 

  • Really clamping down on contact and making it easier to manage groups
  • Safer for staff (who are the backbone and appear to be the ones bearing the brunt of it)
  • Still gives those most in need a focus - school leavers
  • Provides parents with opportunities to still go out and work

Cons

  • Not a full school system
  • Chance of out of school engagement with work will only hit about 10-30% (around the average I'm seeing)
  • Still leaves parents having to work out childcare
  • Poorest kids may struggle to engage with school if it's on Teams/ Google Classroom, etc

 

I would also only do this until Easter at the absolute latest, but ideally just through January or Feb half term. This is not a solution for a year but just to see us through winter and, hopefully, should allow other businesses to stay open. Schools, as evidence is showing us, are where a lot of the issues have come from and hard choices have to be made. 

That's just my thoughts based on working in education and I know not all schools will be like the one I've seen but, talking to people with kids, it doesn't sound like it's that different anywhere else. 

 

 

This kind of open thinking hasn't been utilised at all during this whole pandemic. Here's a well considered option to the schools situation but it's even open or closed with this bunch. 

 

A bit innovation in how to balance the two would go a long way. Always thought and still do with bars and restaurants they could have done two or three households at a table from the start but you are paired as a social bubble throughout this period and can't change. There's a clear difference between six people from six households meeting and eight people from two households meeting. However you were not permitted the latter. 

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reynard

reynard

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

This kind of open thinking hasn't been utilised at all during this whole pandemic. Here's a well considered option to the schools situation but it's even open or closed with this bunch. 

 

A bit innovation in how to balance the two would go a long way. Always thought and still do with bars and restaurants they could have done two or three households at a table from the start but you are paired as a social bubble throughout this period and can't change. There's a clear difference between six people from six households meeting and eight people from two households meeting. However you were not permitted the latter. 

Absolutely right. I would say you could apply similar open thinking to retail and to sporting environments. For eg it is obvious places like Highcross provide a much greater chance of people grouping together and lingering than say a small independent store in Melton Mowbray, Oakham or Uppingham for eg. As others have pointed out playing a round of golf with your housemate is surely as safe a sending a load of teenagers to school on the same bus.

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foxile5

foxile5

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

More important that their union leaders appear to think.

I'd agree. I think the education system underpins the entire social structure.

 

With that in mind closure of the schools, partial or entire, really ought to be a priority. The profession is on its arse as it is with teachers dropping out of it. Little wonder considering some of the awful attitudes towards education evidenced in this thread alone. 

 

Therer will plenty in here prepared to put the needs of the individual way above the needs of the profession. Kids should be in school because teachers are lazy etc etc etc. Tiresome stuff.

 

The unions are hamstrung. Tories, and in particular the right wing media, have demonised the profession to the point that the union leaders have to have a softer stance - the public are pretty abusive about the teaching profession as it is, forget about during a period of stress and strain.

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foxile5

foxile5

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

This kind of open thinking hasn't been utilised at all during this whole pandemic. Here's a well considered option to the schools situation but it's even open or closed with this bunch. 

 

A bit innovation in how to balance the two would go a long way. Always thought and still do with bars and restaurants they could have done two or three households at a table from the start but you are paired as a social bubble throughout this period and can't change. There's a clear difference between six people from six households meeting and eight people from two households meeting. However you were not permitted the latter. 

Oh there's tonnes of ways of balancing it. Online learning is now at the forefront of many school's minds and it's incredible the vitriol people spew when it's suggested. To quote on user 'utter, utter bullshit' that we should consider that a viable alternative in a period of a pandemic. For many the schools being open are a political hill to die on. Baffling some folks should hold the education system in such disregard, but here we are.

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Stivo

Stivo

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

More important that their union leaders appear to think.

The unions are surely making a reasonable point.

 

The government have decided that we need the huge expense of a new lockdown. 

 

That expense can be measured in many ways - the cost to the government of borrowing, the cost to businesses and the costs to people in lost of earnings, wellbeing etc.
 

Whatever your opinion of the need for a second lockdown given the government have decided to have one surely you want it to be effective as possible as the cost is now baked in.

 

The goal of a lockdown is to isolate households so that they cannot pass the virus on.  A household of four that doesn’t mix can be certain not to be infectious to anyone else by the end of the lockdown period even if a member was asymptomatic at the beginning (although they may of course pass the virus internally within the household)

 

Unfortunately not every household can do this as we need people to work in essential areas, and a minority will always ignore the restrictions.  However the majority can and will.

 

The problem that the unions are trying to flag is that schools (much less so universities ) interconnect many of these isolating households thus rendering the lockdown itself much less effective.  
 

That raises the possibilities either that we bear the expense and fail to achieve the goal, or find that the lockdown needs to be extended.
 

Given the possibility of needing a second lockdown when would be the best time to have started it?  Obviously not the week after school half term.

 

What  we should have done is adopted the welsh strategy of  overlapping with half term, and then allowed primary schools to return as they seem to be less risky, made secondary schools online only for a couple of weeks and then targeted the testing that we available at returning secondary pupils to try to ensure that schools start clean.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Stivo
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fox_up_north

fox_up_north

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Stivo said:

What  we should have done is adopted the welsh strategy of  overlapping with half term, and then allowed primary schools to return as they seem to be less risky, made secondary schools online only for a couple of weeks and then targeted the testing that we available at returning secondary pupils to try to ensure that schools start clean.

 

Pretty much this. I accept that being in a school/ education environment puts me at risk but the benefit to others is much higher than the risk of Covid to myself. I am purposefully not seeing family - possibly not even until after Christmas - so that I don't put them at risk. 

 

But if teachers and students get covid in greater numbers (as they are likely to) then nobody can do the job. That requires a plan and government to accept that changes need to happen so that long term benefits are felt. It's a choice of opening up completely but having stop-start economy and lockdowns or having limited opening but able to continue being open long-term. 

 

As others have pointed out - this lockdown won't be as successful if kids are still allowed to mix and share illnesses. 

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whoareyaaa

whoareyaaa

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I’m sure I’m still excluded from it as newly self employed. 

It's a joke, a friend of mine has only been self employed for a year or two so because they don't have 3 years of records he gets nothing, presume you are the same not sure if they have changed it this time around, shit really.

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Pliskin

Pliskin

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Babylon said:

If only there had been a recent school holiday that they could have used to close businesses and education. 

 

What an utter shambles this government are. Either listen to the scientists, or don't. Don't ignore them one week and then as their predictions get ever increasingly glooming off the back of being ignored, decide you're now going to follow their advice... but not all of it, just part of it. 

 

:doh:

The timing is almost laughable if the situation wasn't so serious..... I would say I am amazed, but I really am not..... This government are about as useful as a fart in an elevator..... 

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Nalis

Nalis

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

I've been working in a secondary school for the past 6/7 weeks - first time I've ever really done it (I know - what a time to start!) and you absolutely wouldn't believe some of the nonsense. It might as well be normal. Here's some of what I've seen:

 

- kid had a test over the weekend, parents didn't inform us until the Tuesday morning that he'd tested positive, by which point he's had 6 classes

- different kid tests positive so they send half his class home - but not any in his brother's class or those that get the bus with him
- rule is you wear masks between classes and all stay behind a line in the classroom. That's literally unenforceable when you've got hundreds of teenagers all clumping together and then the really excited ones who literally cannot control themselves
- staff and teacher's rooms where there's barely enough space for 4 out of 5 staff in normal times so any semblance of social distancing goes out the window. Not even any effort from management to sort that. 

I'd say, on an average week, we're now seeing at least 2-3 teachers self isolating, as well as one or two support staff. There's also about 40-50 kids isolating across school every week. Saw a chart that showed year 9 (I think) down to 80% attendance. 

 

How would I solve it?

 

Shut the schools for 2 weeks (or even just one)
Use that time to introduce a rota system of blended learning, which priority for years 7 and 11
Aim to get kids in for 3 days over a week, with home-based projects to do on the other two days. EG - Year 7/11 do Mon, Tues, Weds, Year 10 do Tues, Weds, Thurs and year 8/9 do Thurs, Fri 

Couple that with reduced exams next year or courseworks, coupled with predicted grades and prioritise getting exams all done in June

Work with employers to highlight where there may be gaps in knowledge/ skills over the next 5 years so training can be prepared

Bulk create school meals that can be taken home and heated for those on Free School Meals

Pros 

  • Really clamping down on contact and making it easier to manage groups
  • Safer for staff (who are the backbone and appear to be the ones bearing the brunt of it)
  • Still gives those most in need a focus - school leavers
  • Provides parents with opportunities to still go out and work

Cons

  • Not a full school system
  • Chance of out of school engagement with work will only hit about 10-30% (around the average I'm seeing)
  • Still leaves parents having to work out childcare
  • Poorest kids may struggle to engage with school if it's on Teams/ Google Classroom, etc

 

I would also only do this until Easter at the absolute latest, but ideally just through January or Feb half term. This is not a solution for a year but just to see us through winter and, hopefully, should allow other businesses to stay open. Schools, as evidence is showing us, are where a lot of the issues have come from and hard choices have to be made. 

That's just my thoughts based on working in education and I know not all schools will be like the one I've seen but, talking to people with kids, it doesn't sound like it's that different anywhere else. 

 

 

Thanks for the insight, very interesting to hear from your first hand experience.

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The People's Hero

The People's Hero

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I’m sure I’m still excluded from it as newly self employed. 

I'm not self employed but am sort of self employed. I know that makes so sense. I'm employed by a company I part own. Due to FCA guidance on Treating Customer Fairly and service standards (which rightfully exist), I can't furlough myself... so yeah no help here either.

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fuchsntf

fuchsntf

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BKLFox said:

The peoples champion of how to manage the virus 'Germany', went into lockdown today they have adopted the same approach as we will on Thursday

They/We have gone in 'part-lockdown'....All shops still open....

Hotels Shutting from tonight,but some counties Night stays, are still possible.

Groups..Not more than 10 can Meet up...

Edited by fuchsntf
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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

It's a joke, a friend of mine has only been self employed for a year or two so because they don't have 3 years of records he gets nothing, presume you are the same not sure if they have changed it this time around, shit really.

Yep not a bean, I’m in the fortunate situation of having money in the bank. But on the flip side it means I’m using savings to support my family, as it makes me ineligible for tax credits or whatever they are called.

 

I’m fine with that, it’s why I saved my money. It’s rather annoying that the little support available is means tested, yet someone on furlough with just as much in the bank as me, isn’t.

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Lionator

Lionator

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

They/We have gone in 'part-lockdown'....All shops still open....

Hotels Shutting from tonight,but some countries Night stays, are still possible.

Groups..Not more than 10 can Meet up...

Not only that, your cases/deaths are a lot lower than what ours are.

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