Coronavirus Thread

[Chrysalis]

1 hour ago, los dedos said:

To be fair the scam the factories have going is a good one . They will have one unit all accredited pay the staff above minimum wage top notch health and safety. 

Then say they get an order for 10,000 units, 2000 will be made in the "good" factory and they will then farm the 8000 units out to the sweat shops. So unless you have some monitoring their in comings and outgoings 24/7 it's pretty hard to get on top of .

I think effectively we need officials manning these factories for full shifts day after day, I expect that is considered excessive though, as the procedure is spot checks.

 

I have worked in multiple factories, and know the drill, the standards get increased on the day of the spot check, then back to normal after, somehow shop floor staff always know when the spot checks are coming.

 

Surely the easy short term solution is just shut down every factory in the city?  I expect the fear though is walkers crisps reaction.

 

Mid to longer term solution is then to audit and sort out the sweatshops.

Edited 6 July 2020 by Chrysalis

[Manwell Pablo]

Van drivers been caught 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/man-arrested-suspicion-attempted-murder-4297546.amp

[Leicester_Loyal]

Only 16 deaths today and 352 cases.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

We had Sweat shops in the Late 60s-70s...What have our politicians,Local und National been doing.

How can they despise and abuse our workers,or Immigrants their own workers in a civilised,educated,slavery hating but habital country...

And prats say we Dont Need Unions,or works councils....

Owners should be Made to Walk naked,through the city,Local politicians who have turned a blind eye, put in stocks...

 

Businessmen....Don t make me laugh, also neither Germany nor France come out of this clean....

The next movement call....Workers-lives matter.!!!

 

2020. Are the fathoms of crassness..Not the year....Zero Hour contracts...Food banks.

FFS..and We in Western Europe have learnt from the past...I am ashamed for my war years generation parents..!!

 

In a few years,there will be a film Remake of Oliver, With 202xs has the period setting....!!!

Denouncing trade unions in the public eye and therefore getting rid of them which consequently offers no protection or rules on how factories can operate safely. The politicians are ultimately at fault for bad working practices and low pay. The owners are bound to take advantage because their workers have no rites and therefore can be told if you don't like it, you know where the door is. British workers spent years establishing unions that protected the workers just so owners couldn't take the piss. Why people like Hancock are questioning working practices in Leicester is beyond me, it was people like him and his predecessors that created the problem.  

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Denouncing trade unions in the public eye and therefore getting rid of them which consequently offers no protection or rules on how factories can operate safely. The politicians are ultimately at fault for bad working practices and low pay. The owners are bound to take advantage because their workers have no rites and therefore can be told if you don't like it, you know where the door is. British workers spent years establishing unions that protected the workers just so owners couldn't take the piss. Why people like Hancock are questioning working practices in Leicester is beyond me, it was people like him and his predecessors that created the problem.  

Then the unions went too far, and the government sought to squash them. Poor from both sides.

[StanSP]

Another low number, creeping closer to 0 which is good. Understandablw weekend lag but still coming down which is good. 

 

Why are they stopping this though? 

 

[yorkie1999]

40 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Another low number, creeping closer to 0 which is good. Understandablw weekend lag but still coming down which is good. 

 

Why are they stopping this though? 

 

I suspect it's to do with what's gone off in Leicester where a local authority could "cook the books" to stop an area being closed down.

[CosbehFox]

59 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Another low number, creeping closer to 0 which is good. Understandablw weekend lag but still coming down which is good. 

 

Why are they stopping this though? 

 

They’ve admitted tonight that a quarter of the home test kits have never been returned. 
 

So Hancock’s 100k test was never met. 
 

Boris has also tonight chosen to blame care home managements for their crisis in those premises. 
 

Another rung to this omni-shambles 

[yorkie1999]

With the latest results from large scale testing in both Spain and the US showing just 5% of people developing antibodies against the virus, herd immunity is never going to be achievable. Another stupid idea.

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

With the latest results from large scale testing in both Spain and the US showing just 5% of people developing antibodies against the virus, herd immunity is never going to be achievable. Another stupid idea.

I’ve been consistently sceptical about the viability of a strategy that relies on herd immunity, and still believe it was a bad call to make at the early stages of the pandemic when very little was known about the nature of the infection. A particularly poor strategy when health authorities, including the UK Chief Scientific Officer, were saying that at least 60% of the population would need to be infected, with a fatality rate of over 0.5%, leading to potential mortality counts of over 200k.

 

Nevertheless, I don’t think it can be entirely dismissed, and I for one would be delighted if it turns out to be a “get out of jail free” card.

 

Firstly, I’m not convinced that the antibody tests are reliable (genuinely don’t know). Does everyone who has had the infection produce antibodies? If so, how long for? Presumably the test needs to be administered during an “antibody window” to be effective. This means that more people could have been infected than actually test positive.

 

I understand that even if a previously infected person no longer has antibodies, other parts of the immune system may still provide protection. The science seems to be inconclusive at this point.

 

So overall, more people may have some degree of immunity though previous infection than test positive for antibodies.

 

Secondly, some research suggests that the Herd Immunity Threshold may be far less than that usually calculated when immunity is conferred by vaccination. A paper was posted on this subject some time back in this thread or a predecessor.

 

The paper argued that when herd immunity is attained through natural spread of the infection, the most susceptible spreaders are rendered immune first, leaving only those who are less likely to spread the infection. The effect is to bring down the effective Herd Immunity Threshold, perhaps as low as 10% or 20%.

 

If this is the case, it might mean that places like Sweden, New York, London, etc may actually have approached herd immunity, pretty much accidentally. I say accidentally because at the time the strategy was being considered or put into effect, the threshold was still thought to be be > 60%.

 

I hope this is the case, but there are a few caveats.

 

- Does infection confer immunity? Almost certainly.

 

- How long does immunity last? No one seems to know for sure.

 

- How pronounced is the effect described above that reduces the threshold? Again, more research required, or perhaps a back fitting of data once the whole thing has played out.

 

Personally I am still glad to be in Western Australia where at least for now the virus seems to have been all but eradicated. Nevertheless perhaps this thing can play out without the huge toll that once seemed likely.

Edited 6 July 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[fuchsntf]

5 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Then the unions went too far, and the government sought to squash them. Poor from both sides.

The Union(s) didnt go Too far,but some Not all ,but spokesmen leading with  an agenda

Many a skilled workers Unions didnt get involved...!!

[WigstonWanderer]

A bit more info on the spike in cases in Victoria, Australia for anyone that’s interested. Genomic tracking has been employed and it suggests that the surge in cases was caused by a breach in security by people employed to ensure the integrity of the hotel quarantine for returned travellers. There are allegations of security staff having sex with guests and people mixing in each other’s rooms.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/victoria-hotel-quarantine-breaches-inquiry-launched/12414612

 

They have launched an inquiry to establish what happened. If these allegations are true, some people need to go to jail, and be named and shamed. They will have directly or indirectly cost billions to the economy as well as an as yet unknown number of lives. Prior to this Victoria had clocked up days with zero new cases. Latest figures are over 100 

 

The border between NSW and Victoria will be closed from tonight, a total length of ~ 1,000 km. It contains towns that straddle the border to add complexity.

 

Edit: The whole of metropolitan Melbourne to be locked down from tomorrow. Very disappointing. 191 cases in Victoria in the last 24 hrs.

Edited 7 July 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[Aus Fox]

Back into lockdown! @WigstonWanderer is correct people need to go to jail for this. We had almost got rid of it and through individuals selfishness and stupidity we are right back where we started from again. 

[Dahnsouff]

9 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

The Union(s) didnt go Too far,but some Not all ,but spokesmen leading with  an agenda

Many a skilled workers Unions didnt get involved...!!

This is an irrelevant point, once their is personal agenda's within the unions, it distracts from the (righteous) aims of the union rendering them poisonous and in need of cleansing, which the government did in a very heavy handed way.

[StanSP]

What's the deal with Boris 'blaming' care homes? Any truth? 

[joachim1965]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

What's the deal with Boris 'blaming' care homes? Any truth? 

Yep, just heard it on the news.

[Md9]

3 pubs had to shut over England already because customers tested positive for covid. Good job there wasn’t many people out in the pubs over the weekend 🙈

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, Md9 said:

 Good job there wasn’t many people out in the pubs over the weekend 🙈

In reality, there probably wasn't that many people in pubs. The media pick the worst story when vast majority were complying. It's been the same with the release of lockdown - I consider myself quite cautious but I've ended going into my work office more than anyone else. The majority have stayed at home working. 

[Md9]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

In reality, there probably wasn't that many people in pubs. The media pick the worst story when vast majority were complying. It's been the same with the release of lockdown - I consider myself quite cautious but I've ended going into my work office more than anyone else. The majority have stayed at home working. 

I only really seen one picture to be honest that was a street fill in London outside. So I guess other places probably were sensible. There was always going to be a few situations like this once places opened it was never just going to disappear. 

[foxile5]

5 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

In reality, there probably wasn't that many people in pubs. The media pick the worst story when vast majority were complying. It's been the same with the release of lockdown - I consider myself quite cautious but I've ended going into my work office more than anyone else. The majority have stayed at home working. 

I live on the outskirts of Leicestershire, a literal stones throw from Derbyshire, and the boozers were pretty packed here. Went for a run through town and it was business as usual. This is, by and large, pretty safe: there have been slim to no cases of Covid in my town. I can only imagine the impact it would have if the place were riddled though. 

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

15 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Denouncing trade unions in the public eye and therefore getting rid of them which consequently offers no protection or rules on how factories can operate safely. The politicians are ultimately at fault for bad working practices and low pay. The owners are bound to take advantage because their workers have no rites and therefore can be told if you don't like it, you know where the door is. British workers spent years establishing unions that protected the workers just so owners couldn't take the piss. Why people like Hancock are questioning working practices in Leicester is beyond me, it was people like him and his predecessors that created the problem.  

Is there much history of unionisation in the BAME community in Leicester?

 

Also while I think about it, unions generally fought for legal protections like the minimum wage, which is indeed enshrined in law.  So the workers do indeed have rights.  The question is why in this community those rights are being willfully ignored by all sides.

Edited 7 July 2020 by Jon the Hat

[Chrysalis]

14 hours ago, StanSP said:

Another low number, creeping closer to 0 which is good. Understandablw weekend lag but still coming down which is good. 

 

Why are they stopping this though? 

 

Wow so I am not the only one trying to get the numbers.

 

I have been trying to get the pillar B test counts, and have a open FOI request for it.

 

So the potential agenda against Leicester City has more fuel to the fire now.

[theessexfox]

 This is a really interesting thread about vaccine progress and other updates. Key takeaways:

- vaccine progress good, Oxford trial seems to be working

- will be more like a flu vaccine, immunising ~40% of the population, than an MMR vaccine, which immunises ~97% of the population (if I’ve interpreted that correctly)

- there will be a series of vaccines released from the autumn into 2021, each getting progressively more effective 

- there is a promising antibody therapy being developed which also confers immunity

- as with other viruses, covid seems to become less deadly with time - we may have cross-immunity with other coronaviruses, and T-cells may confer a layer of immunity not picked up in antibody testing 

- masks will be part of the social fabric for the foreseeable future, potentially a cultural shift towards wearing them when unwell is needed 

[rachhere]

29 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

 This is a really interesting thread about vaccine progress and other updates. Key takeaways:

- vaccine progress good, Oxford trial seems to be working

- will be more like a flu vaccine, immunising ~40% of the population, than an MMR vaccine, which immunises ~97% of the population (if I’ve interpreted that correctly)

- there will be a series of vaccines released from the autumn into 2021, each getting progressively more effective 

- there is a promising antibody therapy being developed which also confers immunity

- as with other viruses, covid seems to become less deadly with time - we may have cross-immunity with other coronaviruses, and T-cells may confer a layer of immunity not picked up in antibody testing 

- masks will be part of the social fabric for the foreseeable future, potentially a cultural shift towards wearing them when unwell is needed 

Thanks for sharing. All along they have seemed extremely confident about the Oxford vaccine working. 

[Beechey]

 

Excess deaths now well below the 5 year average.

Edited 7 July 2020 by Beechey