Manchester City Found Guilty Of Almost All Charges

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, VLC86 said:

Inter got awarded some of the titles though didn’t they? Or have I misremembered?

Inter ‘won’ 05/06. The season was still deemed active at the time of hearing. Juventus were disqualified completely and deemed to finish 20th. Milan would have won but were deducted 30 points (still finishing 3rd!). Similar for Fiorentina and Lazio. Fiorentina were 3rd before punishment. So it’s more like the recent cases of FFP in the Premier League where the process was all done within three months. 

 

But the season of 04/05 despite a verdict of Juventus being guilty, there was deemed no title winner 

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

I wonder if they may look to a multi season points deduction rather than a one season hit. 
 

instead of hitting them for a 50/60 point deduction they could go for 3 seasons at 20 points this ensures City stay in the PL protecting TV revenues etc, however would effectively end any title or champions league qualification for 3 seasons which would hurt them, also a massive fine straight to grassroots and multi season transfer embargo as you have suggested. 

I've been saying since the scale of the charges were revealed, it should be a rolling points deduction of 1000 points and expulsion to the National League to prevent them from rebuilding to their current strength. 

 

I've heard a few people on phone ins saying that they cheated for 9 years so should be punished for 9 years but that's not true. 

 

They didn't cheat for 9 years - that's just the seasons they were charged for breaking financial rules for - 2009 to 2018 - 35 of their charges were for non-cooperation in the investigation between 2018-2023, which takes it up to 14 years of cheating. And here we are, 3 years after that where we finally have a verdict after their lawyers slowed the process down to a snails pace. 

 

That's seventeen years of cheating.

 

How long until any punishment is delivered? Are Man City's lawyers going to make it twenty years?

 

And when are the Premier League going to investigate Man City for their conduct after 2018?

 

The punishment should fit the crime. Expel them and make it impossible for their club to return to the big time for at least a generation. 

 

Anything less than that is shameful. 

[Vlad the Fox]

4 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I don’t have too much hope for appropriate punishments given how the PL have dealt with Chelsea. I know Chelsea have successfully argued they voluntarily handed the information out. But it’s laughable they have got off Scot free for crimes which when other clubs have done has led to serious punishment in the case of Boston United, it completely sent them tumbling down the pyramid 

I maybe wrong but didn't Luton's new owners go to the league when they found out all that had gone on with the previous owners and the efl still hit them with a punishment that could hedge destroyed the club? 

[urban.spaceman]

29 minutes ago, lcfc81 said:

Ever feel you’ve been cheated? Consequences could be profound after Manchester City guilty verdict | Manchester City | The Guardian

 This is a great article and does raise questions about are the bounds of the advantaged received limited to the years of the breachs?

Could get very messy! 

 

'There are knock-on effects to the years after the period in question. Leicester, for instance, narrowly missed out on Champions League qualification in 2020 and 2021. Would they have qualified had City, who finished above them, not been artificially juiced? Had they played in the Champions League then, would they be in the mess they are in now? Then there are the less direct consequences: what might it have meant for a club’s – or a manager’s or a player’s – global reputation and thus their capacity to generate commercial income, had they won the league or remained in the Premier League for a further season?'

Me after having said this for the last six years:

 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Vlad the Fox said:

I maybe wrong but didn't Luton's new owners go to the league when they found out all that had gone on with the previous owners and the efl still hit them with a punishment that could hedge destroyed the club? 

I don’t know if that’s true but Chelsea’s punishment in no way fitted their crimes. 
they should at the very least have suffered a transfer ban of several windows. 

[Narborough Road Fox]

1 minute ago, Vlad the Fox said:

I maybe wrong but didn't Luton's new owners go to the league when they found out all that had gone on with the previous owners and the efl still hit them with a punishment that could hedge destroyed the club? 

I don't know if they went to the EFL but the club was royally fvcked over. They were docked 30 points before the season started which led to inevitable relegation to the National League (it was probably still called the Conference then). They were stuck down there for five seasons. 

[urban.spaceman]

10 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I don’t have too much hope for appropriate punishments given how the PL have dealt with Chelsea. I know Chelsea have successfully argued they voluntarily handed the information out. But it’s laughable they have got off Scot free for crimes which when other clubs have done has led to serious punishment in the case of Boston United, it completely sent them tumbling down the pyramid 

We got relegated to League One because of an inadvertent £20m overspend under rules that didn't exist at the time and which only happened because the Premier League ****ed up. 

 

Chelsea illegally spent £50m on 10 players over 13 years in what only can be described as deliberate and sustained cheating, yet the Premier League didn't think they gained a sporting advantage so only fined them 20% of what they'd illegally spent. 

 

Beyond parody. 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

Me after having said this for the last six years:

 

No one can argue that Man City grew their club way faster than the rules allow. And their mega club status achieved by 2018 means that their titles etc post 2018 are also subject to an asterisk.  But the rules don’t allow for punishment on that basis because by then, they were properly generating the huge turnover.  the line has to be drawn somewhere. 

 

it’s such a mess that you wonder if somewhere down the line they manage to successfully argue that the evidence is all inadmissible as it was obtained via illegal means (via hacking).  hence it all goes away. 

[ARM1968]

After many appeals it will just be a fine I imagine. No way they want Man City out of the Prem. 

[Chelmofox]

So, if the 'non cooperation' happened, why didn't the PL apply points deductions anyway? Was their not a precedence for that at the time.

 

The excuse has always been that this is complex, but its been made more complex for taking years to get anywhere. If the club refused to cooperate with any investigation, surely immediate points deductions should have happened that were separate to any sanctions to anything that would be applied post investigation.

 

We are going to find the PL's fingers are slimey and wrapped up with any benefit of this.

[Pliskin]

Reinstate us to the PL and give us the CL Money lost for those two missed season..

[Corky]

31 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I don’t have too much hope for appropriate punishments given how the PL have dealt with Chelsea. I know Chelsea have successfully argued they voluntarily handed the information out. But it’s laughable they have got off Scot free for crimes which when other clubs have done has led to serious punishment in the case of Boston United, it completely sent them tumbling down the pyramid 

There is essentially two strands to this. Clubs who have breached PSR are hauled to independent commissions and the league wants very significant points deductions. Yet other, more serious, misdemeanours have been dealt with far more leniently.

 

The Premier League have really not helped themselves.

[urban.spaceman]

12 minutes ago, Corky said:

There is essentially two strands to this. Clubs who have breached PSR are hauled to independent commissions and the league wants very significant points deductions. Yet other, more serious, misdemeanours have been dealt with far more leniently.

 

The Premier League have really not helped themselves.

 

[WorcesterBlue]

What ever the final decisions are I am sure it will include a points deduction for Everton.

[JimJams]

49 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Reinstate us to the PL and give us the CL Money lost for those two missed season..

This would definitely prove to be our quickest route back to Championship football.

[Clever Fox]

Fines are an easy way out for Man City they have endless money. But waht about compensation for the Fans of all the clubs involved at that time.

 

Shouldn't they receive some recompence instead of the Premier league who have plenty of money too and give very little back to Fans.

 

After all no Fans no Football  and these Fans spend a fortune supporting the favourite teams, Shouldn't they be compensated also.  

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

5 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Fines are an easy way out for Man City they have endless money. But waht about compensation for the Fans of all the clubs involved at that time.

 

Shouldn't they receive some recompence instead of the Premier league who have plenty of money too and give very little back to Fans.

 

After all no Fans no Football  and these Fans spend a fortune supporting the favourite teams, Shouldn't they be compensated also.  

 

 

Remember during the fall out of the Super League, pundits pivoted from demanding consequences for the clubs to saying 'you can't punish the fans'. 

 

I don't remember where that sentiment was when we got our points deduction. 

[Chelmofox]

16 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Remember during the fall out of the Super League, pundits pivoted from demanding consequences for the clubs to saying 'you can't punish the fans'. 

 

I don't remember where that sentiment was when we got our points deduction. 

Looking at Bluemoon forums, Man City fans think that they shouldn't be punished because without them the top tier players like Haarland wouldnt be playing in England, so we should all be thanking them rather than hating them.

 

[em9999]

5 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

Anybody trying to claim retrospective trophies off the back of this can get in the bin. Sounds like such an Arsenal thing to do

At least arsenal havent broken tbe rules

 

4 hours ago, VLC86 said:

While it’s very shit for everyone, it is the reality and not really an Arsenal thing is it.

 

Ultimately, anyone who finished second to them has a legitimate point that they have been cheated out a title. Look at what happened with Juventus and their titles being awarded to Inter, nobody is celebrating it but it’s the reality.

The digs at the champions of England by any fan of us look absolutely ridiclous 

 

Arsenal just like any of the others would have 💯 right to sue 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Corky said:

There is essentially two strands to this. Clubs who have breached PSR are hauled to independent commissions and the league wants very significant points deductions. Yet other, more serious, misdemeanours have been dealt with far more leniently.

 

The Premier League have really not helped themselves.

Very well put. 
 

There’s also one article flying about that says only three clubs hit the necessary time frames to have any right to claim on Man City’s charges. 
 

This is the problem when you allow an organisation to self govern within any existing ‘framework’. The big six put pressure because they use the TV deal like a weapon. To the big six if it was solely about money, they’d have pushed for a TV deal like other countries where the splits are lob sided to the size of club/crowds/tv audiences. They keep the status quo to yield power and use that as a threat when they want things pushing through. 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

De Marco part of this has much has anyone. Him

and his legal firm have been coining it in since the introduction of FFP/PSR. He can claim his holier than thou attitude all he likes but his career, status and financial success has directly benefitted from those organisations he likes to criticise 

[Corky]

7 minutes ago, em9999 said:

At least arsenal havent broken tbe rules

 

The digs at the champions of England by any fan of us look absolutely ridiclous 

 

Arsenal just like any of the others would have 💯 right to sue 

Unless they are punished for their alleged bribery for promotion in 1919 

[foxfanazer]

13 minutes ago, em9999 said:

At least arsenal havent broken tbe rules

 

The digs at the champions of England by any fan of us look absolutely ridiclous 

 

Arsenal just like any of the others would have 💯 right to sue 

I trust you was suitably appalled by our own rule breaking?

[Corky]

10 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Very well put. 
 

There’s also one article flying about that says only three clubs hit the necessary time frames to have any right to claim on Man City’s charges. 
 

This is the problem when you allow an organisation to self govern within any existing ‘framework’. The big six put pressure because they use the TV deal like a weapon. To the big six if it was solely about money, they’d have pushed for a TV deal like other countries where the splits are lob sided to the size of club/crowds/tv audiences. They keep the status quo to yield power and use that as a threat when they want things pushing through. 

All of the rules are designed to stop the upstarts like ourselves, Aston Villa, Everton etc from breaking in yet it was two of their own six who have been the biggest issue.

[Clever Fox]

50 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Remember during the fall out of the Super League, pundits pivoted from demanding consequences for the clubs to saying 'you can't punish the fans'. 

 

I don't remember where that sentiment was when we got our points deduction. 

It's reaached the stage where the Fans of all Clubs need to create a committee or organisation to protect their interests in the game.

 

We just continue to be ignored by everyone in authority,  Be it the various Leagues, Fa, Eufa Fifa. Yet there'd be no football without the Fans.