Manchester City Found Guilty Of Almost All Charges

[Product of 84]

58 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

 

This but instead of 1point per charge I'd inflate to 3 points per charge as that's more online with recent points deductions.

 

39 points deduction each season for 9 years should see them eventually relegated through the leagues with no chance of any promotions over the 9 year period. 

[Parafox]

10 minutes ago, em9999 said:

 

When did fraudulent activity start to be so prevalent? Is it since the inception of the PL, is it down to sponsors, investors wanting a return. Is it Sky and world TV pumping money? Never used to be like this, and it's worldwide.

Serious question BTW.

[st albans fox]

28 minutes ago, Parker Pen said:

Hopefully the Serious Fraud Office and HMRC will investigate them. If Tesco can get investigated for overstating profits by £300 million by the SFO then clearly Man City chief executives have a few questions to answer for breaching Premier League Financial rules with "sham" contracts that artificially inflated revenues £900 million. 

 

22 minutes ago, PhillippaT said:

You'd definitely expect all this to have tax implications, yes...

Overstating revenues are more likely to increase taxes payable rather than reduce them 

if the directors have misrepresented their accounts then they are be liable to be charged - at the very least, it calls into question if the owners can be considered ‘fit and proper persons’ . 

[PhillippaT]

1 minute ago, Parafox said:

When did fraudulent activity start to be so prevalent? Is it since the inception of the PL, is it down to sponsors, investors wanting a return. Is it Sky and world TV pumping money? Never used to be like this, and it's worldwide.

Serious question BTW.

As the rich have slowly gained more power over governments world-wide thanks to further enabling the government->private money->government cycle that really gained momentum under Reagan and Thatcher etc., they've become increasingly brazen as to their corruption - especially in the US ofc, but they;re trying the same thing everywhere.  Regardless of any wars fought, the right-wing WON the 20th century, and they've started the 21st in the lead, too.  If supporting the right/far oright didn't cause conditions that led to their further suport (more selfishness) it'd almost be funny  

 

That sport is affected by this context, is also, unfortunately, inevitable  

[Parafox]

6 minutes ago, PhillippaT said:

As the rich have slowly gained more power over governments world-wide thanks to further enabling the government->private money->government cycle that really gained momentum under Reagan and Thatcher etc., they've become increasingly brazen as to their corruption - especially in the US ofc, but they;re trying the same thing everywhere.  Regardless of any wars fought, the right-wing WON the 20th century, and they've started the 21st in the lead, too.  If supporting the right/far oright didn't cause conditions that led to their further suport (more selfishness) it'd almost be funny  

 

That sport is affected by this context, is also, unfortunately, inevitable  

Well, there's millions to be made in golf, tennis even darts and snooker but I don't get the same sense of corruption in those. Possibly because they are mostly individuals rather than conglomerates. Even top level international rugby seems untainted by such dodgy dealings 

I imagine there's a level of corruption in F1 though.

Edited 1 hour ago by Parafox

[AjcW]

11 minutes ago, Parafox said:

When did fraudulent activity start to be so prevalent? Is it since the inception of the PL, is it down to sponsors, investors wanting a return. Is it Sky and world TV pumping money? Never used to be like this, and it's worldwide.

Serious question BTW.

Football at the highest level has become a very efficient way to “move” money. Why do you think states started getting involved. Why do you think American venture capital started to get involved. Etc etc. 

 

A lot of the gambling sponsorship money is linked to arms and drugs dealing. It’s mental. 

[PhillippaT]

2 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Well, there's millions to be made in golf, tennis even darts and snooker but I don't get the same sense of corruption in those. Possibly because they are mostly individuals rather than conglomerates.

I imagine there's a level of corruption in F1 though.

That's because most of the corruption in golf is behind the scenes...  I'm sure Trump and the Saudi's can tell you all about it  

[Parafox]

2 minutes ago, PhillippaT said:

That's because most of the corruption in golf is behind the scenes...  I'm sure Trump and the Saudi's can tell you all about it  

Would Rory Mcilroy deliberately miss a vital putt? 

I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems unlikely when individuals could be exposed as cheats where big teams and clubs can easily hide stuff 

[Ric Flair]

17 minutes ago, Product of 84 said:

This but instead of 1point per charge I'd inflate to 3 points per charge as that's more online with recent points deductions.

 

39 points deduction each season for 9 years should see them eventually relegated through the leagues with no chance of any promotions over the 9 year period. 

This is where i'm fascinated to see what they do. A single season points deduction, even if it were obscene like 400 has limited impact bar this season alone. But i'm not sure what precedent there is for charges relating to several years ago being handed down in subsequent years by the EFL.

 

I think this might genuinely have to be an expulsion.

[PhillippaT]

35 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Would Rory Mcilroy deliberately miss a vital putt? 

I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems unlikely when individuals could be exposed as cheats where big teams and clubs can easily hide stuff 

There are different ways in which sports (and anything, really) can become corrupt.  That they ARE different, though, doesn't necessarily mean they're better or worse, even if one (that on behalf of the players/teams taking part, rather than the organizers etc.) could be seen as obviously worse on behalf of the activity itself.

Edited 37 minutes ago by PhillippaT

[Chelmofox]

16 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Well, there's millions to be made in golf, tennis even darts and snooker but I don't get the same sense of corruption in those. Possibly because they are mostly individuals rather than conglomerates. Even top level international rugby seems untainted by such dodgy dealings 

I imagine there's a level of corruption in F1 though.

Tennis has had match fixing scandals, and Snooker has had players betting on outcodes. 

[Silebyfox_89]

21 minutes ago, Product of 84 said:

This but instead of 1point per charge I'd inflate to 3 points per charge as that's more online with recent points deductions.

 

39 points deduction each season for 9 years should see them eventually relegated through the leagues with no chance of any promotions over the 9 year period. 

This.

 

A European ban for thr number of years for failing Uefa FFP too. So even if the win the Fa/league Cup they can't get into Europe 

 

[Product of 84]

16 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

This is where i'm fascinated to see what they do. A single season points deduction, even if it were obscene like 400 has limited impact bar this season alone. But i'm not sure what precedent there is for charges relating to several years ago being handed down in subsequent years by the EFL.

 

I think this might genuinely have to be an expulsion.

You are right of course. But it's quite interesting to play with different ideas. 

 

I actually think expulsion is much more likely than a points deduction. Hopefully, from both the Premier League and Football League with certain safeguards in place should they wish to return to the football league. 

 

That said, I actually expect there will be a loop hole or something that Manchester City can exploit to get them off the hook. This may actually suit the Premier League too as to go through with a monster punishment is so risky- especially, with the money numbers being discussed. 

[st albans fox]

15 minutes ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

This.

 

A European ban for thr number of years for failing Uefa FFP too. So even if the win the Fa/league Cup they can't get into Europe 

 

That’s already been dealt with (badly) by uefa 

Sanctions now time barred 

[reynard]

28 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Tennis has had match fixing scandals, and Snooker has had players betting on outcodes. 

The vast majority of match fixing in tennis has been found to be in the lower levels of the sport in say 15k tournaments where the prize money is so low that it is worth taking the risk. And usually connected to betting scams.  Whilst there have been a few high cases of drugs in top players not so much in corruption and match fixing scandals largely due to the prize money etc being high.

[OntarioFox]

2 hours ago, phoneticerror said:

Rudkin masterclass

You're telling me my crypto investment is worthless?

[reynard]

4 hours ago, Tuna said:

Do you think there will be any real punishment? Embargoes, relegations and points deductions absolutely have to happen but I have no faith that they do, my pessimistic suspicion is it will be an enormous fine, effectively bribing their way out of it.

I suspect they will get a points deduction which will mean they will finish lower mid table this season, a massive fine and a transfer embargo for a year or two and that will be that.  I can't see them being expelled from the Premier League as where would they play?  

What they have done is change the whole financial set up the Premier League by inflating their earnings according to this report so that they could buy players and pay them wages they could not really afford. And in so doing leading to other clubs following along in the fear of being left behind.

Personally I'd like to see the owners declared unfit as owners and the club put up for sale.

I'd also like to see the government start taxing the income of the premier league at a higher level. If they can impose windfall type taxes on banks etc then they could apply a similar ruling to football.  The earnings are completely obscene and need to be addressed.

[em9999]

[Ric Flair]

34 minutes ago, Product of 84 said:

You are right of course. But it's quite interesting to play with different ideas. 

 

I actually think expulsion is much more likely than a points deduction. Hopefully, from both the Premier League and Football League with certain safeguards in place should they wish to return to the football league. 

 

That said, I actually expect there will be a loop hole or something that Manchester City can exploit to get them off the hook. This may actually suit the Premier League too as to go through with a monster punishment is so risky- especially, with the money numbers being discussed. 

It will be a nightmare for the Premier League if any loophole exists that conveniently spares them from being held accountable for a weak punishment or dare we think it, nothing at all. The Premier League would be at risk of imploding and so it should if so.

[Blue-fox]

what should happen is club put up for sale, sent to League 2 and make them start over. With their academy players they’ll be back up to championship/lower end of prem in multiple seasons after promotion anyway. 
 

Then next this season promote 1-2-3 in the championship and have the play offs still for the extra team. Still relegate three from the premiership to keep that the same. 
 

Then in league one and two promote one extra team the same as the championship and only relegate one from league 2 into the football league. I think that works out right 😂

[iancognito]

Worth saying again for all those equating ours, Everton's or Forest's punishments up against City's charges, they're only up against a handful of actual PSR charges out of the 115. The rest is just simple financial wrong doing and fraud. The amount of charges doesn't necessarily mean they'll carry the same punishments or even points against them. They can conceivably get a 20 point deduction and the rest in fines and embargoes. 

[Blue-fox]

Just now, iancognito said:

Worth saying again for all those equating ours, Everton's or Forest's punishments up against City's charges, they're only up against a handful of actual PSR charges out of the 115. The rest is just simple financial wrong doing and fraud. The amount of charges doesn't necessarily mean they'll carry the same punishments or even points against them. They can conceivably get a 20 point deduction and the rest in fines and embargoes. 

But they have basically over inflated the whole premier league teams transfer business since the first year they started this. All the other teams would have seen Man City spend money, and try and keep up which pushes up transfer value etc… 

 

Completely falsified 10+ years of transfer fees. 

[MrSpaM]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c65y51l3gzq4o

 

All the stuff they are being accused of