Manchester City Found Guilty Of Almost All Charges

[Bert]

1 hour ago, Vacamion said:

 

Next Panini album is going to have football lawyers and association administrators in it.  

Nick Di Marco 1/1 patch autograph. 

[ealingfox]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

So once they made themselves the complete financial dominant force in English football, subsequent years don’t apply?
 

If I was to commit fraud, net myself 2million, invest that and double it, then does that not matter? Man City achieved their dominance due to how they behaved during those years. They needed massive sales on players they illegally acquired. 

 

Of course they apply and it matters, it's just more difficult to directly link it to the consequences for us later down the line because you start getting into counterfactuals.

 

We'd still have had Top and Rudkin at the wheel all this time. Rodgers would have been manager for the additional CL opportunities and his European record is tragic so we wouldn't have made much of them.

[Zear0]

5 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Again something Chelsea have done and not received a points deduction. 
 

if you actually look at most of their charges they are things normally dealt with by a fine. But the sheer amount of them makes it unprecedented and hard to predict a punishment. 
 

The 7 over spending, charges and UEFA charges, should land them with -42 points and a lengthy ban from

Europe, as a minimum baseline. Whatever happens on top of that is anyone’s guess. 

But Chelsea admitted it and didn’t try to bully the authorities with lawyers. 

[Chelmofox]

2 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

I don’t like this being used as an excuse for our demise like it excuses the actions of Aiyawatt.

 

It can be true that the actions of Man City impacted those seasons but as has been said so often, it didn’t result in the years of decisions that have continued to shaft us time and time again.

Both things can be true though, can't they. 

 

The financial and football decisions this club have made have been completely scandalous. Our fall from grace has been horrific, and we will be feeling it for a long, long time. We should have been able to deal with coming 5th a few times, and at very worst be a mid table PL side.

 

But lots of clubs (not just us) have lost out a lot of revenue because of this.  We will never know what the impact would have been to getting 4th in that first season we came 5th under Rodgers. Would we have kicked on stronger, as we had some great players who desperately wanted Champions Lg football and were pretty marketable, and we had a manager that was desperate to be managing at that level? Would we have purchased better players and been able to refresh the squad how Rodgers wanted to? Or, would we have signed the likes of Vestergaard / Bertrand / Soumare and Daka anyway and we would have just crumbled sooner. 

 

We will never know, but just because Top / Rudkin are pathetic doesnt meant that the means to missing out wasnt scandalous. A huge amount of revenue was lost because of it, and in football once the financial wheels start to fall off, its very, very difficult to steady the ship.

Edited Saturday at 11:46 by Chelmofox

[Lutterworth Fox]

46 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Rangers basically went bust.  The club ceased to exist until a consortium bought up the assets and relaunched it.  They applied for Premiership status and it was denied so they applied for SFL status, were accepted but had to start at the bottom.

 

Realistically, I can only see two ways in which Man City aren't in the Premier League next season.  One is to give them perhaps a 114 point deduction this year which would relegate them to the Championship.  I don't think this is acceptable for most because Man City could survive one season in the Championship, probably hold onto a good few players and get instantly promoted with a record points haul and then what? That's it?  As you were?

 

The expulsion from the Premier League is far more interesting.  That could stipulate maybe a 5 year ban from the Premier League rather than a simple relegation where the EFL would be obliged to accept them.  With expulsion, surely that's them out and effectively disqualified.  The normal promotion/relegation rules still apply and are filled as normal and Man City are left searching for a home and the EFL wouldn't be obliged to offer them a spot.

 

This could get really messy.  I love it!

Like it!

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

13 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Both things can be true though, can't they. 

 

The financial and football decisions this club have made have been completely scandalous. Our fall from grace has been horrific, and we will be feeling it for a long, long time. We should have been able to deal with coming 5th a few times, and at very worst be a mid table PL side.

 

But lots of clubs (not just us) have lost out a lot of revenue because of this.  We will never know what the impact would have been to getting 4th in that first season we came 5th under Rodgers. Would we have kicked on stronger, as we had some great players who desperately wanted Champions Lg football and were pretty marketable, and we had a manager that was desperate to be managing at that level? Would we have purchased better players and been able to refresh the squad how Rodgers wanted to? Or, would we have signed the likes of Vestergaard / Bertrand / Soumare and Daka anyway and we would have just crumbled sooner. 

 

We will never know, but just because Top / Rudkin are pathetic doesnt meant that the means to missing out wasnt scandalous. A huge amount of revenue was lost because of it, and in football once the financial wheels start to fall off, its very, very difficult to steady the ship.

It's not just the money, it's the fame of being a regular Champions League competitor, which attracts a better player, so you don't end up taking chances on the likes of Vestergaard and Daka.

[Trav Le Bleu]

I wonder what the tables would look like if you removed at Man City games?

 

Potentially could be teams that were relegated by a point, who lost both their games against Man City and the team above them had gotten points against them and hence safety - but not if you remove those 4 games.

 

Once you start picking at this, it will unravel and unravel. I guess it won't be picked out too much. That way insanity lies.

[TeamRocket]

Do think this open a can of worms and do think this should have been sorted years ago. It is definitely gonna be messy. As I do think every team from 2008 onwards should get compensation from Manchester City and the prem(for dragging it out this long) and they need to be kicked down to lower league same way a juve and rangers did as well as fines and embargos handed but will anything happen no

Edited Saturday at 12:09 by TeamRocket

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I wonder what the tables would look like if you removed at Man City games?

 

Potentially could be teams that were relegated by a point, who lost both their games against Man City and the team above them had gotten points against them and hence safety - but not if you remove those 4 games.

 

Once you start picking at this, it will unravel and unravel. I guess it won't be picked out too much. That way insanity lies.

Agreed, but I doubt it will stop a few clubs taking them to court and getting hefty settlements.

 

Meanwhile the FA has to relegate them surely.

[Manwell Pablo]

25 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

But Chelsea admitted it and didn’t try to bully the authorities with lawyers. 

Very true but it’s how much weight an independent commission puts on that. 
 

I am not saying they won’t get a sporting sanction for it for that reason and also like I say volume of offences I am just saying the bulk of the charges are not the most severe.

 

They are in deep shit regardless even if they maintain their pl place which I’m sure they won’t, the fines for one of these cases is throw away money but times it by 107 and take away Champions League revenue and tell them they have to meet ffp on top of that and they are still in crisis situation with their outgoings. 

[Ric Flair]

21 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

I mean it is a good point that if (if) we have no breach of ffp when we finished fifth we do have a court case.

 

Probably can’t afford a lawyer like but we have a case 

But we got off on a technicality for the 3 year losses of 20/21, 21/22 and 22/23. The breach for 23/24 does not cover that period.

[CruzNoir]

Fair play to them 

 

rules are meant to be broken (to an extent) and they did that fantastically 

 

what that means for other teams when you unravel the mess? The teams relegated by a point or so, the teams missing out of Europe by a point or 2? Teams in Europe that will have been knocked out by City when they shouldn’t have been there in the first place etc etc?

 

Why should City care? they rolled the dice, it worked in so far as they’ve built a huge brand, one of the richest and most successful club in modern times

 

the risks with rolling the dice should match the level of deviousness, but I doubt it will, they’ll be big consequences, the biggest we’ve problem seen in football, but probably still not big enough for what is required and that’ll suit them just fine with their endless bottomless pit of money 

 

it’s the fans I feel for, they be cocky etc but none of this is on them 

Edited Saturday at 13:11 by CruzNoir

[Manwell Pablo]

8 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

But we got off on a technicality for the 3 year losses of 20/21, 21/22 and 22/23. The breach for 23/24 does not cover that period.

Yes I did look that up after. 
 

 

[Spudulike]

Going to look a bit sparse when they get removed...

 

[Foxmeister]

3 hours ago, RonnieTodger said:

Can’t see them getting more than a hefty fine, suspended points deduction or transfer embargo. 

TBF a lot of us thought there was no way they’d be found guilty.

[coolhandfox]

Should be a punishment on the same scale as Juventus.

 

This is a case of sustained cheating.

 

PL can't just fine them after coming for the likes of Forest and Everton with point deductions.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:32 by coolhandfox

[Qwerty]

22 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Finally I can stop listening to idiots crowing Manchester City got away with this, Manchester City got away with that. 

They’re going to appeal, so it’s not over yet.  I strongly suspect it’ll be overruled on appeal, or at least diminished, so their punishment ends up being minimal. 

[Pliskin]

We will see…… such will be the pressure from the league for them to take serious action they have to……

[RoboFox]

6 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Should be a punishment on the same scale as Juventus.

 

This is a case of sustained cheating.

 

PL can't just fine them after coming for the likes of Forest and Everton with point deductions.

 

 

Juventus were relegated and slapped with a pretty minor points deduction, they lost a few players but still pissed Serie B and it was business as usual the following season. It would be the same for Manchester City.

[trooky]

56 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Both things can be true though, can't they. 

 

The financial and football decisions this club have made have been completely scandalous. Our fall from grace has been horrific, and we will be feeling it for a long, long time. We should have been able to deal with coming 5th a few times, and at very worst be a mid table PL side.

 

But lots of clubs (not just us) have lost out a lot of revenue because of this.  We will never know what the impact would have been to getting 4th in that first season we came 5th under Rodgers. Would we have kicked on stronger, as we had some great players who desperately wanted Champions Lg football and were pretty marketable, and we had a manager that was desperate to be managing at that level? Would we have purchased better players and been able to refresh the squad how Rodgers wanted to? Or, would we have signed the likes of Vestergaard / Bertrand / Soumare and Daka anyway and we would have just crumbled sooner. 

 

We will never know, but just because Top / Rudkin are pathetic doesnt meant that the means to missing out wasnt scandalous. A huge amount of revenue was lost because of it, and in football once the financial wheels start to fall off, its very, very difficult to steady the ship.

The easiest chance we had to sue anyone was Everton and we didn't. 

 

Their over spending was for the financial period ending 21-22 and baked into their squad in the 22-23 season that we were relegated, but they didn't get punished until 23-24.

[orangecity23]

This is bad, but I bet a lot of the media narrative will be about how "cheated" Man Utd or Liverpool were. The entire big 6 is a pox on the game in my opinion, the rules ensure there can never be a fair competition as the levels of commercial revenue they command dwarf the total income of other clubs. Teams like Villa can get everything right in terms of signings, strategy and delivering on the pitch, then get bullied into fire selling their squad, while Man Utd or Spuds can fail badly, not qualify for Europe, then still go out and splash a couple of hundred million on signings.

 

That's before we even get to the whole super League plot, where the vast money and privelidge they have wasn't enough, to the point where they conspire to essentially destroy the English football pyramid and got away with a punishment they were allowed to negotiate.

 

The top of the game is rotten to the core, might as well just pack the whole thing in and televise Yanited and Liverpool announcing their accounts on Sky, with the bigger income and most Twitter followers deciding who gets the trophy as Gary Neville tosses himself into a coma about how their Adidas deal means more as "thisismancheseryanited"

[ARM1968]

21 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

It's not an 'if'. 

 

These are the same charges UEFA banned them from Europe for two seasons for. 5th should have qualified for the Champions League in both those two seasons. 

I know, it is fairly cut’n’dried, but legal arguments are funny things and that’s where this would go. They can afford far better lawyers than us. However, the honest thing is that we would have secured Champions League and we may well not have seen this awful slide into chaos that we are in. 

[winteriscoming]

If and it’s a big if they get a points deduction it’ll one they can easily make up and not risk going down. 
I can see it being that and a fine. 
They’ll get away with it. 
Had it been a mid table premiership team they’d have had at least a 10 point deduction and a fine by now. 

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, RoboFox said:

Juventus were relegated and slapped with a pretty minor points deduction, they lost a few players but still pissed Serie B and it was business as usual the following season. It would be the same for Manchester City.

Still should be the minimum.

[coolhandfox]

58 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

If and it’s a big if they get a points deduction it’ll one they can easily make up and not risk going down. 
I can see it being that and a fine. 
They’ll get away with it. 
Had it been a mid table premiership team they’d have had at least a 10 point deduction and a fine by now. 

So they have been found guilty of breaking P & S 7 times.

 

Forest and Everton both got points deductions for 1.

 

If you are those clubs are going to take legal action against the PL if they don't deal with Man City in the same way.