ealingfox Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 I never said he deserved the sack, I'm going on empirical evidence as well; my doubts came from watching a lot of their games and thinking that, while they put in some plucky performances and got a few good results, they lacked the quality and Adkins lacked the tactical acumen to keep them up in the end. That's my belief, whether you agree or not doesn't particularly matter much to me. I've seen nothing from him to suggest that he'd be a significantly better option than Pearson IMO, and - personally - I wouldn't be that excited about his appointment. Well no, you aren't going on empirical evidence because what you're saying is based on the assumption that had he not been sacked they would have relegated by the end of the season, when at the time of his sacking had things remained constant they would have survived. He was sacked, so the position they were actually in, ie not in the bottom 3, is the best indicator of how things would have continued, rather than your belief. Finishing top 2 in the Championship is something, unfortunately, that suggests he is a better option than Pearson.
ealingfox Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 It's fact isn't it, Pearson has had previous with falling out with players ala Gradel, St Ledger and Mills. I'm not saying that perhaps their attitudes didn't contribute to it but the fact remains that fallouts have been more frequent. Did NP come out in the press to say he's had a bust up on those 3 examples..... nope, they will always deny accusations like that. Don't get me wrong NP and Wood probably didn't have a fallout but can you 100% confirm that they didn't? Yeah because that's definitely a fair point.
dannythefox Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 So anyone who thinks that sacking the manager is a bad idea while we're in the playoffs after a bit of a poor run isn't 'sensible'? He's made a bit of a hash of things recently, but there would be nothing remotely 'sensible' about sacking him with just 8 games to go. If we don't get promoted I'm sure the Thais will consider his position and rightly so. Personally, I'd stick with him even if we don't get promoted, purely because I don't think there are many managers out there that would want to come here, or who would be significantly better than Pearson. I've seen Adkins' name banded about, as well as Di Matteo and Di Canio... Well for me, Adkins is very overrated and is quite a similar manager to Pearson anyway. If you want diferent tactics then you won't want this guy because he plays 4-4-2 99% of the time as well. Yes, he managed to get a very good Southampton side promoted (after Pardew laid the foundations and did all the hard work for him) but he struggled severely in the Premier League. As for Di Matteo, well that's just a non-starter. Why would any manager with a Champions League trophy to his name drop down into the Championship? It would be a huge step back for him, we'd have to pay a fortune in wages to get him and we wouldn't be able to offer much in the form of a transfer kitty either. Di Canio - unproven in this league and too unpredicatable. I'm sure people would 'enjoy' his crazy rants and constant fallouts with players - it would certainly make a change from dour Pearson, but do we really want that kind of manager at a club which is crying out for stability? Who else is there? Seriously, what manager would want to come to a club where the fans are crying out for their manager to be sacked on the back of one poor run in the club's best season for ten years? I think Nigel Pearson has severe limitations, I think people would be right to question his future here if we don't get promoted this season, but Pearson also has a lot of strengths too - with recruitment right at the top of the list, which is important with the advent of FFP. So on the balance of things, I'd keep him purely because I think his strengths outweigh his weaknesses and will be particularly valuable in the coming seasons where we need to recruit quality players for sensible fees and wages and I don't think there is anyone on the market who would come to us and do a significantly better job. How the hell is Adkins similar to Pearson? He's just left a Prem club that was looking like he could of kept them up. He plays good football did great at Southampton and did a top job at scunny oh and he's got promotion from the championship which Pearson will probably never do unless he gets lucky and wins the playoffs!
Corky Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Adkins also got a tiny club in Scunthorpe up to the Championship twice and managed to keep them there second time around. He's obviously got a winning mentality as a manager, no matter who laid the foundations.
teblin Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Adkins also got a tiny club in Scunthorpe up to the Championship twice and managed to keep them there second time around. He's obviously got a winning mentality as a manager, no matter who laid the foundations. He has a fantastic record everywhere he's been to be fair. Just not sure whether now is the time to make a change or no. Then I guess he will not be available in the summer.
LJS Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 I never said he deserved the sack, I'm going on empirical evidence as well; my doubts came from watching a lot of their games and thinking that, while they put in some plucky performances and got a few good results, they lacked the quality and Adkins lacked the tactical acumen to keep them up in the end. That's my belief, whether you agree or not doesn't particularly matter much to me. I've seen nothing from him to suggest that he'd be a significantly better option than Pearson IMO, and - personally - I wouldn't be that excited about his appointment. I disagree completely. Whilst Pardew did lay the foundations for Adkins' success (many Saints fans believe this also) he still had to manage them to that success. even though we beat them twice last season I thought they were the best side to visit the KP and I was always confident that they'd survive in the top flight. They had a poor start because their defence was leaking too many goals but they had obvious quality in the side. Adkins learned from their defensive deficiency, tightened them up, and dragged them out of the bottom three. They were on an upward curve when they sacked him and haven't improved since. It seems odd to say that Adkins wouldn't offer a better option than Pearson. His record suggests otherwise. He has been successful wherever he has been. He won the Welsh league twice with Bangor City. Promotion from League One twice (including winning the league once) with Scunthorpe. And two consecutive promotions with Southampton. Pearson has kept Carlisle United in League Two, Southampton in the Championship, won League One with us and finished fifth in the Championship, finished midtable with Hull in the Championship, finished ninth in the Championship with last season having been in charge for the majority of the season, and is currenly looking set to miss out on a play off place in the second tier. Even if he turns it around between now and May and manages a play off finish his record still won't come close to that of Adkins.
indierich06 Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 But then I'd argue that Southampton's team when they were promoted is significantly better than ours is now. We might have a couple of individual players who are better than some of those in Southamton's side last season, but I would argue their TEAM from that season was far better than ours is now - good players in every position and good players who can actually change a game on the bench, but - and, without belittling Adkins' achievements with that team - it's not a team he built as the vast majority of those players were already at the club. Regardless of whether Pearson goes or not, we need new players over the summer. Pearson has shown time and time again that he is a very shrewd operator in the transfer market, whereas Adkins has never really had to rebuild a team. Myabe he could get more out of our current squad, but I would be more concerned about whether he has the ability to bring in the right players to bring our squad up to the required level. I don't think he's a shit manager, far from it, but I wouldn't be jumping for joy if we hired him, nor would I think our prospects of promotion would drastically improve with him in charge.
LJS Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Pearson has had plenty of time to build a team capable of finishing in the top two. It isn't as though we had an awful side when he joined. We were sixth after his first game in charge. We finshed ninth last season, not twentieth. There was a good base on which to build. Let's not forget that Pearson has spent an awful lot of money. Regardless of who he has managed to offload more than £10m should be enough to build a side capable of challenging for a top two place at this level. We are nowhere near that. We might even miss out on the play offs. As for Adkins, whether or not Pardew built the basis of a good side he still managed it and won two consecutive promotions. And his record at Scunthorpe was outstanding - that shouldn't be ignored. I'd be moe inclined to agree credit your stance on his job at Southampton had he not delivered elswehere. But he has. His record is indisputably superior to that of Pearson, and by quite some distance.
Tielemans63 Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/18/football-transfer-rumour-mill Probably posted elsewhere but I don't really care.
Babylon Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 It's fact isn't it, Pearson has had previous with falling out with players ala Gradel, St Ledger and Mills. I'm not saying that perhaps their attitudes didn't contribute to it but the fact remains that fallouts have been more frequent. Did NP come out in the press to say he's had a bust up on those 3 examples..... nope, they will always deny accusations like that. Don't get me wrong NP and Wood probably didn't have a fallout but can you 100% confirm that they didn't? Do you know what "fact" means? There is no evidence of any falling out, in fact it's only ever been denied by those allegedly involved.
Rusko187 Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Do you know what "fact" means? There is no evidence of any falling out, in fact it's only ever been denied by those allegedly involved. Yeah because the alleged will come out and admit a falling out, in my whole lifetime of being a spectator to football I don't think I've ever known the manager and player to come out to the press/public and say "yes we've had a falling out"
Steven Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 http://talkingballs.co.uk/showthread.php/35868-The-annoying-but-traditional-totally-unfounded-Winter-2012-13-rumours-thread?p=1150155&viewfull=1#post1150155
MC Prussian Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Yeah because the alleged will come out and admit a falling out, in my whole lifetime of being a spectator to football I don't think I've ever known the manager and player to come out to the press/public and say "yes we've had a falling out" Hence it all remains a rumour/pure speculation without any essence or facts to back it up to it at all. I might just as well start a rumour myself and see where it goes from here.
indierich06 Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 As for Adkins, whether or not Pardew built the basis of a good side he still managed it and won two consecutive promotions. And his record at Scunthorpe was outstanding - that shouldn't be ignored. I'd be moe inclined to agree credit your stance on his job at Southampton had he not delivered elswehere. But he has. His record is indisputably superior to that of Pearson, and by quite some distance. Well it's only my opinion after all. I wouldn't be over the moon if he came here, but I wouldn't be pissed off either. I don't think he's ever had to work at a club where the overwhelming expectation is that we win promotion at all costs either - there was little expectation at Scunthorpe, Southampton couldn't have expected automatic promotion on their return to the CHampionship... it's dertain that managing without that pressure makes things easier. It would be interesting to see how the fans reacted if he had a slow start while he was here. Like I said, I don't think he's a bad manager - far from it, he's got a good record - but I don't think he's a million miles away from what we already have, that's all. If we do sack Pearson and we do bring Adkins in, a lot of fans expectation levels, which are already urealistically high, would go through the roof again and I think Adkins will fall short personally, but like I said: that's just my opinion.
Ric Flair Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 I can't think of a manager i'd prefer than Adkins if we were to sack Pearson. He ticks almost every box for me. He has a keen desire to develop players from his clubs youth academy.
harpendenfox Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 One might suggest this is Nige's third attempt to win promotion from the Championship. The first attempt was perhaps beyond our expectations, but Norwich and Southampton have proved back to back is possible. Harsh to judge him on last season perhaps, but as others have written we were sixth after his first game, and fell away rather than moving forward. This season, well, who knows what will happen, but I'm struggling to draw on any reserves of optimism. If he remains for next season at what point would we act if things don't go according to plan? I'm not saying he's a waste of space or a disaster, far from it, but is he quite good enough? In general I'm against change, and in favour of a steady ship. We've known Nige for three and a half seasons now: can he go any further?
cc_star Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Hence it all remains a rumour/pure speculation without any essence or facts to back it up to it at all. I might just as well start a rumour myself and see where it goes from here. If you start a rumour & enough people comment on it... A national paper will pick it up, people will then use that as the source, not your baseless rumour... Threads will be made from that and it goes full circle.
hackneyfox Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Where's Mark_W? He hasn't topped himself has he?
kingfox Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Where's Mark_W? He hasn't topped himself has he? Funnily enough I'm just down Upperton Road now looking over Upperton Road bridge, and the divers are out.
Babylon Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Yeah because the alleged will come out and admit a falling out, in my whole lifetime of being a spectator to football I don't think I've ever known the manager and player to come out to the press/public and say "yes we've had a falling out" So it's not fact then? The players / manager could point blank refuse to comment if they wanted. It's not unlike Pearson to stone wall people. But he's denied it, the players have denied it (even when they were sold). The only information you have is internet rumour, which takes one prat with a keyboard to start.
hackneyfox Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 I don't see the point in muddying the water over alleged bust ups with players. The manager can be assessed on results only, they are clearly poor with no sign that he knows how to turn them around. If were starting to show signs of improvement on the pitch then I could understand people wanting him to stay, unfortunately that isn't the case, we seem to get worse each game with that display against Derby being one of the worst seen in years.
TheUltimateWinner Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 Leicester are ready to send a managerial SOS to Nigel Adkins - with Nigel Pearson's job on the line. - Daily Mail he availability of Nigel Adkins could spell disaster for Nigel Pearson, with out-of-form Leicester considering a swift Nigel-swap to resurrect their promotion chances, fearful that Reading, or Leeds, or someone else, might get the former Southampton manager first if they don't hurry up about it. - The Guardian
AyewJoking Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 the owners are waiting til april fools day to offer Pearson a new contract.
_Fatboyslow_ Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 The only information you have is internet rumour, which takes one prat with a keyboard to start. What did I do now !!!!
Babylon Posted 18 March 2013 Posted 18 March 2013 I don't see the point in muddying the water over alleged bust ups with players. Funny because I seem to remember you using it to "muddy the water" quite a bit not so long ago.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.