Puel

[ZeGuy]

Work in progress but thoroughly enjoying it.

 

 

Just you wait when Silva comes. We're gonna win the league.

[Fox92]

56 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Sorry but not convinced. I think he's riding his luck at the moment. We're making football look a complicated game when we used to be experts and exploiting it's simplicity and we're getting breaks like comedy own goals, bad golkeeping and multiple open goal misses. This reminds me of Shakey's honeymoon period - despite concerning patterns in our performances (which everyone ignored) we had a few good results and his refusal to learn from his mistakes began the downward spiral.

 

Dominating possession does nothing for me. We are clearly a far superior side to Newcastle and yet we made very hard work of beating them and in some ways were pretty fortunate, considering 2 of our goals were complete gifts.

 

I've never, ever understood why people are impressed by teams keeping the ball. It's boring to watch. The aim of the game is to score goals and despite dominating possession we had few moments. We should have been creating a hatful with that much of the ball but we didn't. There were some good passages of play, flashes of promise if you will, as we saw in the 1st half against Spurs, but the majority of the time we were making heavy weather of playing the ball forward. Sideways and backwards passes don't get you any points.

 

They'd have got a severe bollocking for me at half time if I was the manager. Every time a player gets the ball they should be getting their head and looking for a forward pass immediately, or alternatively to drive into space. First touches should be positive and the ball should only go sideways or backwards if there are no forward options. T

 

When we did move the ball quickly (i.e. the 2nd and 3rd goals) we had success, but there was far too much messing about - slowing things down and showboating. Ignoring teammates in acres of space. Pointless backheels. The usual suspects trying to beat players twice instead of getting a cross in. The amount of space we had in the first half, they were there for the taking yet we went in level.

 

As soon as we went in front we again tried to slow the game down and keep a 1-goal lead instead of going for the throat. Guess what, we conceded again. He isn't learning lessons. His philosophy is bound to cost us points because no team can keep the ball forever, and when they do get it we are easy to create chances against.

 

Let's see - where did our goals come from? Was it passing it sideways in our own half? No, those were the spells that brought us nothing. First goal was someone taking responsibility and having a shot (and poor goalkeeping). 2nd goal was an early ball forward and a 4-touch move. 3rd goal was from a counter attack. Apart from that we had the Vardy penalty appeal (another quick move) and Gray's shot from outside of the box.

 

So for all this possession bollocks, our good play came from keeping it simple. I can assure you that all of our effective football came from quick, incisive football in moves that lasted about 5 seconds. I'm not being funny, but we should be absolutely hammering teams like Newcastle. Individually we are so much better. You think it's good we had 60% of the ball? I say we wasted almost all of that. That's not attacking football, keeping the ball and not going forward with it is negative football.

 

If you have 60% possession and need poor goalkeeping and an own goal to get a win then that is surely irrefutable evidence that you didn't make the most of it and didn't play particularly well. If we had played a decent side yesterday we'd have been well beaten. Our defending is still all over the place.

 

And why is Simpson pushing so far up? There is absolutely no reasonable explanation for that. I actually thought he played really well in the circumstances but there's just no way he can contribute in an attacking sense and it leaves us exposed at the back. There was one point where he and Vardy were the only ones in the box, the ball was cleared and they had acres of space on the break. So where was our midfield?

 

We are clearly a team with ability but we knew that already, Puel hasn't brought that to us.

 

Next you'll get people lauding us for doing freestyle keep-ups in our own box.

 

 

Because if you keep the ball the opposition can't score. Football is not a hard game. You have to draw teams out, especially away from home.

 

I love watching us now, we actually play good football and players like Gray, Mahrez, Maguire, Iborra are playing in their style instead of that stupid long ball we've been seeing for the past few seasons.

 

As for your "need poor goalkeeping and an own goal to get a win" comment then lets write off Newcastle's second goal too. Okazaki would have scored the own goal anyway. 

 

Puel has been here for about a month and has already changed our style. We're not going to be perfect in 4/5 weeks. We're a work in progress, but we're progressing.

 

Edited 10 December 2017 by Fox92

[oldbluefox]

Some of the football we played yesterday was sublime. Much as I liked Shakespeare we were going nowhere with him. Puel has changed a lot since he came and I have to say, I am impressed with him so far.

[Sir Shep]

I wasn’t overly impressed in all honesty, but then to be fair I’d have taken a goat managing us over Shakey (but I still have the upmost respect for Craig’s coaching achievements here). Still think there’s improvement to be had, looking foward to the transfer window to see if he brings anyone in and let’s anyone leave. 

[ian_marshall]

30 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Sorry but not convinced. I think he's riding his luck at the moment. We're making football look a complicated game when we used to be experts and exploiting it's simplicity and we're getting breaks like comedy own goals, bad golkeeping and multiple open goal misses. This reminds me of Shakey's honeymoon period - despite concerning patterns in our performances (which everyone ignored) we had a few good results and his refusal to learn from his mistakes began the downward spiral.

 

Dominating possession does nothing for me. We are clearly a far superior side to Newcastle and yet we made very hard work of beating them and in some ways were pretty fortunate, considering 2 of our goals were complete gifts.

 

I've never, ever understood why people are impressed by teams keeping the ball. It's boring to watch. The aim of the game is to score goals and despite dominating possession we had few moments. We should have been creating a hatful with that much of the ball but we didn't. There were some good passages of play, flashes of promise if you will, as we saw in the 1st half against Spurs, but the majority of the time we were making heavy weather of playing the ball forward. Sideways and backwards passes don't get you any points.

 

They'd have got a severe bollocking for me at half time if I was the manager. Every time a player gets the ball they should be getting their head and looking for a forward pass immediately, or alternatively to drive into space. First touches should be positive and the ball should only go sideways or backwards if there are no forward options. T

 

When we did move the ball quickly (i.e. the 2nd and 3rd goals) we had success, but there was far too much messing about - slowing things down and showboating. Ignoring teammates in acres of space. Pointless backheels. The usual suspects trying to beat players twice instead of getting a cross in. The amount of space we had in the first half, they were there for the taking yet we went in level.

 

As soon as we went in front we again tried to slow the game down and keep a 1-goal lead instead of going for the throat. Guess what, we conceded again. He isn't learning lessons. His philosophy is bound to cost us points because no team can keep the ball forever, and when they do get it we are easy to create chances against.

 

Let's see - where did our goals come from? Was it passing it sideways in our own half? No, those were the spells that brought us nothing. First goal was someone taking responsibility and having a shot (and poor goalkeeping). 2nd goal was an early ball forward and a 4-touch move. 3rd goal was from a counter attack. Apart from that we had the Vardy penalty appeal (another quick move) and Gray's shot from outside of the box.

 

So for all this possession bollocks, our good play came from keeping it simple. I can assure you that all of our effective football came from quick, incisive football in moves that lasted about 5 seconds. I'm not being funny, but we should be absolutely hammering teams like Newcastle. Individually we are so much better. You think it's good we had 60% of the ball? I say we wasted almost all of that. That's not attacking football, keeping the ball and not going forward with it is negative football.

 

If you have 60% possession and need poor goalkeeping and an own goal to get a win then that is surely irrefutable evidence that you didn't make the most of it and didn't play particularly well. If we had played a decent side yesterday we'd have been well beaten. Our defending is still all over the place.

 

And why is Simpson pushing so far up? There is absolutely no reasonable explanation for that. I actually thought he played really well in the circumstances but there's just no way he can contribute in an attacking sense and it leaves us exposed at the back. There was one point where he and Vardy were the only ones in the box, the ball was cleared and they had acres of space on the break. So where was our midfield?

 

We are clearly a team with ability but we knew that already, Puel hasn't brought that to us.

 

Next you'll get people lauding us for doing freestyle keep-ups in our own box.

 

 

Sorry Kitch I have to disagree with you on this one. 

 

Whilst I enjoyed watching us play fast counter attacking football, it was obvious that it was never sustainable with an ageing team, and was very easy to negate (by playing a deep line). We simply became too predictable and played right into the oppositions hand's by gifting possession back. 

 

As much as I would agree that possession stats don't win you football matches (Tottenham are the prime example), generally speaking if you took all of the football teams in the world and ranked them by levels of possession I guarantee that those with the highest possession stats account for the top twenty percent of teams in world football. The simple reason being that as others have already mentioned, when you have the ball the opposition doesn't, which means that they can't hurt you. Not only that but they are expending energy in trying to recover the ball whilst you are conserving energy which allows you to up the ante in the later stages of a game and season as the opposition tire. 

 

The England national team are the prime example of a team that has historically played with pride, passion, and endeavour, without patience and technical ability on the ball. How many times over the years have England been up against top opposition who retain the ball well, huffed and puffed to get a result but ultimately fallen short as the opposition patiently waited for the right opportunity to deliver that killer blow. That's what possession allows you to do; you decide and dictate when to go for the kill. 

 

I'm not saying that we need to strive for ninety percent possession in every game, as we need to adapt and mix it up depending on the team we face to avoid that predictability that I mentioned early. However it is refreshing to see that we've now added another string to the bow and I'm fascinated to see what the future holds as Puel brings in his own personnel and fine tunes the system to make up for the shortcomings that you mentioned in your post. 

 

I appreciate that you may disagree with my take on how football should be played. For the record I don't believe that any one way of playing the game is particularly better than the other, after all it's eleven men against eleven men kicking a bag of wind around a patch of grass; the most fit and talented will always come out on top over a prolonged period of time. The game will inevitably evolve and we may well see periods in the future where long ball and physicality dominates the game. I just believe that at this moment in the modern game this approach is necessary to compete amongst the very best in both this league and abroad.

[AYLESBURY FOX 1961]

I am sad that we will probably never get back the exciting all out attacking gung ho style from the great escape last 9 games of 2014/5 and the first eighteen games of the following season - we were just balls out not giving a shit approach that got the crowd up for it and you couldnt fail to be an optimist - last night i was jut relieved we won when if we had the approach from 2015/16 we should have wiped the floor with them.

[Bossman Blessed It]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

 

FFS, give the man a break.

 

Whilst I agree with a few of your points he's come here and completey changed our style with the same players. Our previous style was only going to work to a point and needed changing. He's managed to pick up 14pts from 7 games and has only worked with what he inherited. He has a proven track record and will stamp his style even more on the team inthe next few transfer windows.

 

He's already acknowledged the imbalance in the squad and I'm sure he's looking to ship out some of our expensive strikers. He's started to play our young talented players in Gray and Chilwell and given Choudhury his debut. I'm confident he'll get rid of older squad players and replace them with the best youngsters at the club which will give the whole club a lift. Who knows what will happen in the future but I see exciting times with what I've seen so far.

 

I particularly agree with your point about playing youth. It's vital for our future as a club and he's recognised the talent that Gray and Chilwell have. We're 8th and as we keep grinding out results the gap between us and 10th widens. He has used the squad in a far more constructive manner than Shakey or Ranieri in his second year did. Possession isn't worthless at all and we've had to evolve from a system that became incredibly easy to defend against and was really hard to watch. Our centre backs aim to keep possession and play from the back, which is bound to lead to some sideways and backwards passing. But, allowing Mahrez, Gray and Albrighton flexibility and freedom in the final third is incredibly difficult to defend against. We're scoring goals and the players look to be gelling well under the system. 

[SkidsFox]

He's done very well so far in a short time. I am not sure that any of the contenders for the manager position could have done this. Are we in an age of poor managers?

[baldeagle]

It said on the tv yesterday that he played in midfield in a training match this week with the rest of the team to make numbers up and that the players were impressed with him . I couldn’t imagine fatty two balls doing that 

Edited 10 December 2017 by baldeagle

[brucey]

Still not fully convinced, will see how he handles the next two transfer windows - good recruitment is a necessary part of being a good manager.

 

The past 3 games have seen better results than what I would have expected under Shakespeare. Prior to that Puel's results were pretty much identical to what I would have expected from Shakey. I'm not sure how much to read into it as we've had some luck in these past few games which we weren't getting before. Fine margins with a large variance. And the difference in the personnel available - Shakey had to play King/an unfit Iborra for a large number of his games while Puel has had a fit Iborra for all the games.

 

I feel that we're now scoring more but also conceding more, although that might be due to Maguire over Huth. Overall it's probably an improvement.

I personally much prefer watching all out counter attacking long ball with 30% possession than pretty passing possession football, but I guess I'm in the minority for that.

 

Personnel wise it's great management, although the breakthrough wasn't playing Gray and Mahrez together, but rather Gray Mahrez and Albrighton together. Props to him for that.

[Koke]

I will just reiterate what I said in the post Newcastle match.

 

Puel is improving us tactically and stylistically without using a transfer window. Be patient folks, we are evolving, slowly slowly.

 

Puel has been here for about a month. We played anti-football under Shakespeare and now we are actually playing decent stuff. There's a lot to like about Puel. We are not gonna have a perfect defence and score 3 every game, we are not Man City. But we are better than Burnley and should take that 7th spot.

[Wizerud]

We've evolved more under Puel than the entire time from post-Pearson to Shakey getting the sack. And that has been a necessary evolution. It doesn't mean we've forgotten or can't play like we always used to - I'm sure we'll revert back to that style in certain games but even then it will have matured because we don't treat the ball like a ticking time bomb now. I was glad to see the showboating yesterday - it shows we are playing with confidence.

[Koke]

8 minutes ago, brucey said:

I feel that we're now scoring more but also conceding more, although that might be due to Maguire over Huth. Overall it's probably an improvement.

I personally much prefer watching all out counter attacking long ball with 30% possession than pretty passing possession football, but I guess I'm in the minority for that.

 

That's all very nice against Liverpool at home and we put 3 past them. But I got bored of watching is have 35% possession at home to Southampton & Stoke, and hoof the ball down the channels for Vardy to chase. Last season and beginning of this season we got found out. Our tactics became stale and predictable. 

 

I'm not sure how anyone can prefer our previous playing style to this current one.

[winteriscoming]

I agree puel has done well and it still is a work in progress. My only criticism atm is vardy gets isolated and we still can't defend corners or set pieces. I do like the fact we seem to be keeping the ball better and once puel has january and the summer we will improve even more. 

[Babylon]

6 hours ago, brucey said:

Still not fully convinced, will see how he handles the next two transfer windows - good recruitment is a necessary part of being a good manager.

 

The past 3 games have seen better results than what I would have expected under Shakespeare. Prior to that Puel's results were pretty much identical to what I would have expected from Shakey. I'm not sure how much to read into it as we've had some luck in these past few games which we weren't getting before. Fine margins with a large variance. And the difference in the personnel available - Shakey had to play King/an unfit Iborra for a large number of his games while Puel has had a fit Iborra for all the games.

 

I feel that we're now scoring more but also conceding more, although that might be due to Maguire over Huth. Overall it's probably an improvement.

I personally much prefer watching all out counter attacking long ball with 30% possession than pretty passing possession football, but I guess I'm in the minority for that.

 

Personnel wise it's great management, although the breakthrough wasn't playing Gray and Mahrez together, but rather Gray Mahrez and Albrighton together. Props to him for that.

We're still playing counter attack football, look at all the goals we've scored under him.

 

What we are also doing is keeping the ball in between them, rather than defending the majority of the time with possession 30-40%.

 

The way people go on you'd think we've been amazing and he's runined how we were playing. We've been playing utter crap in the main for the best part of two years, the counter attack football was no longer working and we were boring and one dimensional.

 

Im thrilled with what he's doing currently, plenty of work to do. But you can't change everything in a few weeks.

Edited 10 December 2017 by Babylon

[SheppyFox]

Long Live The Puel!

[Gerard]

19 minutes ago, Babylon said:

We're still playing counter attack football, look at all the goals we've scored under him.

 

What we are also doing is keeping the ball in between them, rather than defending the majority of the time with possession 30-40%.

 

The way people go on you'd think we've been amazing and he's runined how we were playing. We've been playing utter crap in the main for the best of two years, the counter attack football was no longer working and we were boring and one dimensional.

 

Im thrilled with what he's doing currently, plenty of work to do. But you can't change everything in a few weeks.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

There is a ceiling on how good a team can be if they're over reliant on counter attacking football with 40% possesion. It becomes too easy for lesser sides to defend deep and now you're out your comfort zone as you have to break them down. All the best teams in history are sides that dominate possesion.

 

We still haven't lost the ability to counter attack, just look at Vardy's goal versus Tottenham this season which is a beautiful example of fast counter attacking football. Puel is just trying to add another string to our bow and hasn't nullified our counter attacking threat in the slightest.

 

 

Edited 10 December 2017 by Gerard

[Beechey]

3 hours ago, Kitchandro said:

Let's see - where did our goals come from? Was it passing it sideways in our own half? No, those were the spells that brought us nothing. First goal was someone taking responsibility and having a shot (and poor goalkeeping). 2nd goal was an early ball forward and a 4-touch move. 3rd goal was from a counter attack. Apart from that we had the Vardy penalty appeal (another quick move) and Gray's shot from outside of the box.

What are you talking about?

 

Before the first goal, we'd had like 4 efforts from a similar area as where Mahrez scored from.

 

The build-up to our second goal was a 13-pass sequence:

Chilwell -> Schmeichel -> Mahrez -> Vardy -> Simpson -> Iborra -> Chilwell -> Maguire -> Morgan -> Mahrez -> Iborra -> Mahrez -> Albrighton -> Gray

 

And since I'm prepared to actually research I'll tell you that infact that goal was also a 34 touch sequence, with no Newcastle possession involved at all.

 

To further push my point, every single player (bar Ndidi) was directly involved in the buildup to that goal, either by a pass (9 players) or by scoring it (1 player).

Edited 10 December 2017 by Beechey

[cityfanlee23]

6 hours ago, SheppyFox said:

I was loudly confident when we got him, he even got my immediate avatar approval, prior to all the early success  

Same here, Said from the start he would take us to the next level, said the same with Ranieri too in fairness. 

Claude is someone who I feel will really build on the Pearson/Ranieri Legacy. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

Not going to go mad yet. Shakey won 6 in a row in the league and came from behind in a CL knockout tie and it went tits up eventually. Still think the senior players will get sick of him in twelve to eighteen months and he’ll be gone.

[Gerard]

32 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Not going to go mad yet. Shakey won 6 in a row in the league and came from behind in a CL knockout tie and it went tits up eventually. Still think the senior players will get sick of him in twelve to eighteen months and he’ll be gone.

 

He's not coming back, accept it. 

[lcfc sheff]

As long as we give him the time and resources, we should aiming for Europe within two seasons. Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves, In these games we've had with him we have shown improvements in areas not associated with our recent seasons, keeping the ball. However as shown against Newcastle we still struggle at times with lapses in concentration. We're good; but not as good as people think, its more to do with going a step in the right direction to move this club forward from past seasons and the successes we've had to now evolve from.

 

Sorry if that post seems very Bipolar!

[Lambert09]

Everything has been great so far, my only reservation is the comments made about him not taking charge of transfers.

 

With the clown we have in charge of transfers it will be a scary month if Mahrez leaves. But quite clearly, if we can give Puel the tools he’s going to be a success

Edited 10 December 2017 by Lambert09

[KingsX]

The Puel-to-Leicester thread on the Saints forum kicked back to life yesterday.  Some have changed their tune ...

 

- The players got their way.   Shifted the blame, made the him the scapegoat.  Puel didn't have a Mahrez or Vardy at saints.   V pleased for him. He's having an absolute laugh with leceister.  Let this be a lesson. We must stick with MP and let him build something.

- we weren't great to watch under Puel (much better away from home than we currently are though). I only really wanted rid of Puel for someone better and there's no evidence that MP is any better or even at least as good. With hind sight we should have stuck with him.

- I wanted Puel out because the football was negative and we hadn't seen a home goal at St Mary's for yonks. Now I think it was the players and not Puel who should have taken the blame (all those missed penalties for a start). With VVD injured for half the season and no replacement for Mane and Wanyama Puel got us to 8th place and a cup final...deserved a medal really

- Lol, they're now above the forum favourite Marco Silva.

 

But not surprisingly, the thicker heads are doubling down ...

 

Can't believe anyone who saw all our home games last season would now be wishing we didn't sack Puel. Granted we had a few better away games but at home we were not only very poor but also excruciatingly dull, and most importantly we were getting worse not better He has made a decent start at Leicester, nothing more nothing less, but he has far better and pacier attackers to play his defensive safety first tactics knowing there is a good chance the likes of Vardy and Mahrez will nick a goal on the break.

 

I liked this one best ...

 

 

He has no idea how little was paid for that quartet! 

 

[Livid]

We’re in transition as a team and as fans. It’s going to take time for us all to adjust. 

 

I miss the gung ho style of a couple of years ago and still love it when we break at speed and score but It’s not natural to watch your team gladly surrender possession and just wait to pounce and win the ball back whilst inviting the opposition to come on to us. I realised we couldn’t play like that forever. Raineri and Shakespeare tried to change the style with the league winning team and it didn’t work. Puel has made a couple of changes and so far so good.