breadandcheese Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 It's the bit about training not being as intense that concerns me. Our conditioning over the last 5 years has been good, with players playing at a level above themselves. So the intensity levels in training must have been spot on previously. Lowering these levels is in my mind, a mistake and one Puel has to rectify quickly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1742 Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 The big issue we have is who holds the power within the club, the players or the manager? Until this team is dismantelled, the players will have the swing of the power due to their previous successes and the way the group was set up. Puel is trying to stamp his authority on it, trying to change things, but these players won’t have it, so there will be an issue. All goes back to Pearson, he created a strong group mentality, one where they were as one and that still exists in the dressing room today. The thing is, you try and make changes, the players stick together as they did under Pearson and they will see Puel as a threat to how they liked things before. Ranieri did well initially as he just let it all carry on, he didn’t change anything and so it all carried on the way Pearson had created it, a strong group playing for each other . Then Ranieri changed things, the players didn’t like it, the group stood together and he was history. Its difficult, and our future will be decided by the strength of the managers and how they manage to make the next transformation from the Pearson era. That transformation is yet to take place. You can can go back to the ONeill days when a similar situation happened. We had a great group mentality under ONeill, then Taylor came in. He felt threatened by the strength of the group and broke it up straight away (Walsh out the door), but he was not good enough to put together a new group as replacements. The team were stronger than the manager and the result was catastrophic. Its going to be a painful few years, as we still haven’t really had that transformation from what Pearson put in place. It needs to happen, but three managers have not been able to do it. Our best bet is if we can manage to get in a Dyche or Benitez type character who “maybe”stronger than the group, make changes and the players see this new way as the way forward. But even those managers, those that get in the players faces could fail to turn this group around. Its hard for Puel, very hard and he won’t last long as the players have already decided his path. You could tell he was onto a loser when he kicked out Dragovic as soon as Morgan was back to fitness. He had to do this as if his Captain was against him, it would have unfolded even quicker and I doubt he would have been there now. Puel needed Morgan onside as his influence with the group is massive. Ranieri, Shakespeare and Puel were all successful for short bursts and without making this post huge, you can see the reasons why in each case. But Puel will go the way of the other two and this was clear as soon as he rightly or wrongly decided to change things around. The worry for me is we still haven’t had the transformation of that group mentality since Pearson left, and we have a good chance it could all end in tears. We need someone as strong as Mourinho to come in and be stronger than the players, but finding that manager is going to be very difficult. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The whole world smiles Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 24 minutes ago, chapero82 said: I wonder How many fans said to give him a pre season because he got us to the top of the league I'll go out on a limb and say that after signing established premier leauge players like Dennis Wise and Ian Walker I can remember feeling pretty confident. Mind you I was about 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 1 hour ago, Matt said: True, but it's not like he was a young kid to build a squad around for the future, is it? The man was way on the tail end of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 Bring back Kingy he had the power to unite everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddylonglegs Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 Puel is fine for me. I am in complete agreement that we have played in a boring, lethargic way - but bring in a competent RB & CB and we'll be OK with him in charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_Loyal Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 I'm 50/50 on this issue. On one hand I think the old guard needs to be got rid of this summer with a couple of replacements, but on the other hand, from what I've seen in the past five months I don't know if Puel is the right man for the job, especially now all this is coming out. I think I'd be more leaning to giving Puel the summer to bring his players in and see where we are come Christmas 2018. However, if he were to go, I'd want Dyche (who probably wouldn't come if Burnley finish 7th), Rafa or Wagner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankMarvin Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 Too many bad eggs still here dictating 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkerleeds Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 5 minutes ago, davieG said: Bring back Kingy he had the power to unite everyone. Glad someone is finally talking sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arriba Los Zorros Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 Although we do have an issue with player power, I think that Puel is a poor manager and should go sooner rather than later. Strong character to sort out this dressing room, please. All stars align for the return of the great NFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 I get the impression that the players, much like the fans, are very much on-board with the long-term plan to change our style of play. However I can understand their frustrations regarding the chopping and changing, especially when a good chunk of those changes leave you scratching your head an hour before kick-off and then even more confused come full-time. A lot of the strong Puel defenders point to that fact that he is transitioning us and therefore we can't judge him yet. I disagree. There is plenty that we can judge him on that is not related to the transition. Starting Tactics and Team Selection I'll ignore the dullness of our style and put that down to the transition, but I don't think once this season he's picked our strongest team. There are always errors that stand out. Chilwell over Fuchs, James over Silva/Iborra, Morgan over Dragovic, playing players out of position in the No.10 position. I worry about a manager that thinks Iheanacho, with his first touch that is probably League One standard, is a no.10. Likewise with Diabate, who is too rough around the edges and too lightweight to even be considered as a Premier League no.10. He says all the right things after the match, but he seems to be having trouble actually putting them right. In-Match Tactical Changes There have been a few times when his changes have worked well. Seeing out the game against Spurs at home and Brighton away spring to mind, but in general he is far far too late with his subs and he seems to really struggle to know when to turn the screw. How many times this season have we had a team against the ropes but then not punished them and eventually dropped points. Man Management This was and remains my biggest concern. I can't listen to more than a minute of his press conferences without my brain going into screensaver mode. That's not important, but if we feel like that, it's reasonable to think that perhaps the players struggle to be energised by his messages and methods. That's not helped if he's not communicating his changes and ideology to the players, as the Telegraph is reporting. I've seen on several occasions the players getting visibly annoyed at Puel during a match because they don't know what he wants. That is very worrying and has nothing to do with a transition in style of play. When he was appointed my fear was that, despite being a decent manager, he just wasn't suited to the Premier League and not suited to us. We are a club that revels in being the underdog. A club that loves upsetting the apple cart. A club that has had recent success beyond our wildest dreams by playing aggressive, high intensity football. Puel, as a man, and his style of play, was never going to sit easily with us. Motivating I can't remember the last time we really looked up for it. We seemed energised by his changes for the first few weeks and were genuinely exciting to watch, but maybe that was the new manager bounce. Against Chelsea we had a chance to get into the FA Cup semi-finals but we lacked intensity and desire against a fatigued and under-performing Chelsea team. Look at how much Newcastle wanted it more on Saturday. Highlighted by that crazy 20 second string of 50-50's....of which we didn't win any. All my fears about Puel are unfortunately coming true and everything that is happening at Southampton is happening again here. Maybe this time we'll find out if he can turn things around in the second season, but I'm struggling to shrug the feeling that it is the right long-term plan, but the wrong man to deliver it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 54 minutes ago, MC Prussian said: Whilst I agree with the notion that employees should learn when to shut their trap and when to open it and question their own effort, it's also down to the manager to unite the team, shape it according to his vision and communicate his decisions in a clear and understandable fashion. Pro footballers are like kids, that starts to change when they approach their 30ies. "Player unrest" happens at every club, nothing new there. It takes a bloody good teacher to handle a kindergarten, Pearson and Ranieri had that talent. I just can't envision Puel being that good at it. In Simpson terms, he reminds me of Principal Skinner. Did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 We are a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfan92 Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 I’m hoping that the team is taking a back step in order to make a big leap forward next season. I’m not convinced that’s the case, especially as next season we’ll have the problem of replacing our most creative player, but I feel like Puel is trying to make a team comfortable on the ball but the players aren’t right for the system (yet). Now you could argue that’s poor management, but if the reason the system isn’t working is because of one or two positions not able to adapt (e.g. needing a forward minded right back who can dart forward to support the right winger) then perhaps if we can identify/ attract the right players over the summer then we’ll see the type of evolution we all hoped to witness after the first few games when Puel took charge. My big concern is, even without those players, the ones we have should be creating more chances than we appear to be doing at home lately. I missed the match on Saturday (first match I’ve missed since the first Arsenal game in our premier league winning season) but I was continuously looking for updates on the match and even if Newcastle parked the bus, no shots on target until the late goal is inexcusable. For me Puel needs to prove he can do three things right next season (and he can start doing two of these right stating from the next match) 1 - pick the right team for the match - attacking lineup at home, and away against teams we should be beating, 2 - get some intensity back into the play. Possession is great but we proved that you can only have a little of the ball and win matches. It’s scoring goals that wins games and that can be done with one kick. 3 - buy players that fit the system he wants to play, but that also compliment the strengths we already have, strengths we should be playing to in matches. Puel needs to think - why did things work so well when I came? What’s changed? And not stubbornly make changes just to fit the system he wants to see. The tinkerman didnt tinker in his first season and look what happened. I’m all for evolution but it should be evolution not revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ricey said: I can't remember the last time we really looked up for it. We seemed energised by his changes for the first few weeks and were genuinely exciting to watch, but maybe that was the new manager bounce. This is the thing that concerns me the most, we don't look up for it as a team, there are usually individual moments where Vardy will chase someone down, or Wilf will fly into a few tackles and at the end of a game we're losing we will start to pile the pressure on, but it is a more calculated approach rather than an instinctive approach and we have a lot of instinctive players that will run their bollocks off all game, but if they have to think about things too much lose that spark. When we were at our peak, if you saw a chance to make a tackle you tried to make the tackle, if there was a chance to release Vardy you tried to release Vardy, or if there was a gap you just ran forwards with it. Having to think is almost checking yourself and you lose that one of the things that made us special. We wanted to win every game so badly. If the results were the same but the desire and motivation was still there, I wouldn't be concerned. This approach seems to be sapping the spirit from the squad. 47 minutes ago, Fox92 said: We are a joke I don't see West Brom, West Ham, Southampton, Stoke, Huddersfield, Brighton, Swansea, Crystal Palace laughing. This isn't a crisis and the overreaction on here is typically hilarious, it's just a transition, whether it is a transition to a new manager or a transition to being able to carry out Puel's plans better I don't know, but this has been a season of unrest and a stable pre-season with the right additions to the coaching and playing staff will see us improve next season. The only thing I don't want is to fanny about with Puel not really back him over the summer than sack him a few games in like we did with Shakespeare. If it's not working with the players then we should get rid ASAP, it's a cliche but once you lose the dressing room it is hard to get it back, motiviation and desire are better than tactics and style. Edited 9 April 2018 by Captain... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddylonglegs Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 If Puel is in the dug out next year with the following team then I'd be confident Schmeichel New RB New CB/Drago Maguire Chilwell Iborra Silva Ndidi Gray Vardy New RW However - if we still line up with a pair of donkeys on the right hand side of defence then we need a different style of play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 2 minutes ago, Captain... said: This is the thing that concerns me the most, we don't look up for it as a team, there are usually individual moments where Vardy will chase someone down, or Wilf will fly into a few tackles and at the end of a game we're losing we will start to pile the pressure on, but it is a more calculated approach rather than an instinctive approach and we have a lot of instinctive players that will run their bollocks off all game, but if they have to think about things too much lose that spark. When we were at our peak, if you saw a chance to make a tackle you tried to make the tackle, if there was a chance to release Vardy you tried to release Vardy, or if there was a gap you just ran forwards with it. Having to think is almost checking yourself and you lose that one of the things that made us special. We wanted to win every game so badly. If the results were the same but the desire and motivation was still there, I wouldn't be concerned. This approach seems to be sapping the spirit from the squad. I don't see West Brom, West Ham, Southampton, Stoke, Huddersfield, Brighton, Swansea, Crystal Palace laughing. This isn't a crisis and the overreaction on here is typically hilarious, it's just a transition, whether it is a transition too a new manager or a transition to being able to carry out Puel's plans better I don't know, but this has been a season of unrest and a stable pre-season with the right additions to the coaching and playing staff will see us improve next season. The only thing I don't want is to fanny about with Puel not really back him over the summer than sack him a few games in like we did with Shakespeare. If it's not working with the players then we should get rid ASAP, it's a cliche but once you lose the dressing room it is hard to get it back, motiviation and desire are better than tactics and style. I almost entirely agree. We seem too slow in midfield and I think are just really lacking a presence in the attacking midfield area between the lines, which means Vardy is so isolated. After a right back, an attacking midfielder should be our number one priority. We have like 5 wingers, with none of them able to play centrally. It means we almost just pass side to side, looking for either Albrighton or Mahrez to find space, and they never can. We are pitifully easy to nullify, like we were last season. When Puel first came, the fluidity of the three behind Vardy rotating positions meant that the wingers could find space. I don't know if they're being drilled to not move from their positions or whether it's the players, but they need the freedom to float around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Beechey said: I almost entirely agree. We seem too slow in midfield and I think are just really lacking a presence in the attacking midfield area between the lines, which means Vardy is so isolated. After a right back, an attacking midfielder should be our number one priority. We have like 5 wingers, with none of them able to play centrally. It means we almost just pass side to side, looking for either Albrighton or Mahrez to find space, and they never can. We are pitifully easy to nullify, like we were last season. When Puel first came, the fluidity of the three behind Vardy rotating positions meant that the wingers could find space. I don't know if they're being drilled to not move from their positions or whether it's the players, but they need the freedom to float around. The problem is it doesn't take a tactical genius to see how to stop us scoring, midfield and defence sits deep, push our wide forwards out wide and wait for the ineffectual cross to Vardy to be mopped up by the Centre backs (incidentally what we did all season on the way to the title). This is the problem with the sideways pass as soon as we go sideways the defence has time to get in position. The 2 Centre backs cover Vardy, the midfield drops to pick up the number 10. the full back just shepherds the winger out wide, even if our full backs overlap and work an opening to cross we are still out numbered in the middle and we don't have Drinkwater and Kante bombing forwards like we used to. Iborra and Ndidi play too deep and are less inclined to attack. Iborra in particular doesn't have the pace or drive to support the attack which is a shame as he is good in the air and if he got forwards there would be someone to attack the cross, Ndidi is more incline to go forwardss, but his shooting has been poor this season and it feels like they are instructed to stay back. Edited 9 April 2018 by Captain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 1 minute ago, Captain... said: The problem is it doesn't take a tactical genius to see how to stop us scoring, midfield and defence sits deep, push our wide forwards out wide and wait for the ineffectual cross to Vardy to be mopped up by the Centre backs (incidentally what we did all season on the way to the title). This is the problem with the sideways pass as soon as we go sideways the defence has time to get in position. The 2 Centre backs cover Vardy, the midfield drops to pick up the number 10. the full back just shepherds the winger out wide, even if our full backs overlap and work an opening to cross we are still out numbered in the middle and we don't have Drinkwater and Kante bombing forwards like we used to. Iborra and Ndidi play too deep and are less inclined to attack. Iborra in particular doesn't have the pace or drive to support the attack, Ndidi does, but his shooting has been poor this season and it feels like they are instructed to stay back. We need to get Silva more up the pitch, his passes centrally through the gaps of the opposition defense saw it on one occasion on Saturday could be beneficial because sadly our wing play is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Col city fan Posted 9 April 2018 Popular Post Share Posted 9 April 2018 52 minutes ago, Fox92 said: We are a joke I think the same and it’s another reason why I’ve not been down this season and posting less on here. I’m just bored of talk about management sackings, player revolts, bringing back Pearson etc etc. Its ‘same shit, different day’ and has been for too long now. We need to clear out some of the older players, sign some good younger ones and knuckle down to playing some football. Puel needs at least a transfer window to try to properly evolve us. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 4 minutes ago, Happy Fox said: We need to get Silva more up the pitch, his passes centrally through the gaps of the opposition defense saw it on one occasion on Saturday could be beneficial because sadly our wing play is useless. If we have no options to cross to we just shouldn't just float one in, either drill one in low and hard or recycle possession and drag them out of position. Glad that Silva had a good game as we need more options going forwards not just go wide and hope Mahrez does something brilliant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 2 minutes ago, Col city fan said: I think the same and it’s another reason why I’ve not been down this season and posting less on here. I’m just bored of talk about management sackings, player revolts, bringing back Pearson etc etc. Its ‘same shit, different day’ and has been for too long now. We need to clear out some of the older players, sign some good younger ones and knuckle down to playing some football. Puel needs at least a transfer window to try to properly evolve us. But he's quiet in interviews! How can he manage a football club when Jonny from FoxesTalk struggles to hear him have a chat with Ian Stringer?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 Big close season ahead for Puel if he stays, and for the club whether he does or not. Let's make certain assumptions (which might not all be correct): - Puel stays and pursues his plan for more possession-based football - Mahrez goes - Other key players like Vardy, Ndidi & Maguire stay - We don't qualify for Europa League As a bare minimum we'll need the following 1st team (not just squad) signings: - Right back - 2 centre backs (1 might be Drago; I'm assuming Wes stays as 1 of 2 back-ups to Maguire + 1) - Winger (Gray & Diabaté still bench players for me) - At least 1 creative attack-minded midfielder/No. 10 (arguably one of each) A case can be made for other signings (e.g. left-back, striker), so that's a bare minimum. Getting at least 5-6 new players who are ready for the first team is a big ask. Particularly in a World Cup year. If we don't have signings lined up in June, we're probably looking at late July/early August, so little time to adapt. That's also assuming that we don't lose key players apart from Mahrez. Especially if there is some squad discontent, you could imagine the likes of Maguire, Ndidi, even Vardy being tempted by offers, so either gone or distracted. Unless things are going seriously wrong behind the scenes, my inclination would be to give Puel at least until November. It would have been ridiculous appointing him if we weren't going to do that. But I really hope we have plans for 2-3 early quality signings. Otherwise, there's a lot of scope for the wheels to come off, so that 18-19 becomes a relegation struggle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callabinho Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 I think it completely depends on where we finish. There’s absolutely no chance of Europa, In actual fact, I think we will be the whipping boys for those on the periphery of the drop zone, as we saw against Newcastle.. there’s no fight or venom about us, we’ve put in two pathetic performances in the respective cup competitions to drop out, and have made a feeble attempt to secure 7th... the weekends game is crucial, as a win puts pressure on Burnley, defeat will more than likely secure 7th for them. I’d imagine the brief would have been, finish in a Europa position either via the league or cup. Which I think it’s safe to assume we have failed. Therefore I think Puel is in danger of getting the chop, and will almost certainly be sacked in the close season if we lose to Burnley and fail to get 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted 9 April 2018 Share Posted 9 April 2018 12 hours ago, Beechey said: Yes, nothing will pull in the international talent like Nigel bloody Pearson. 2 hours ago, Beechey said: True, but it's not like he was a young kid to build a squad around for the future, is it? The man was way on the tail end of his career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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