Premier League Thread 2018/19 stuff it in here.

[fuchsntf]

On 10/04/2019 at 11:48, fuchsntf said:

Southgate to resurrect Vardy's England Career!!!  After Harry.K suffers CL & Euro blow...s

 

I am tellin'   ya'all

I told you lot days ago!!!  Vardy will win us the new EU-League this summer...

[davieG]

8 hours ago, murphy said:

I would say in response to that, that a player has to earn a run in the team.  Someone like Nacho has made himself almost unselectable this season.

 

Fair enough if you stand by your opinion but can you think of a single established player (ie not a kid like Chillwell stepping up from the U23s) that has started off poorly and taken 6 months or a year to become good for us in recent seasons?

 

I just think the evidence backs my argument.

Andrej Kramatic

 

 

Leicester City wrote off Andrej Kramatic fairly quickly.

Despite interest from Premier League giants Chelsea, The Foxes won the race to sign the rising star of Croatian football in January 2015, pulling off a real coup when they landed the 23-year-old Rijeka striker according to The Guardian.

But Kramaric’s time in England is best left forgotten. He was handed just 15 Premier League appearances, finding the net twice, and found himself on loan at Hoffenheim while Leicester were celebrating the Premier League title.

 

Few were shocked when Leicester cut ties with Kramaric in 2016, selling him to the Bundesliga outfit for a fee of £9.5 million, as reported by Transfermarkt.

And Kramaric has since spent the last three years showing Leicester where they went wrong. After 51 goals in his first two seasons at Hoffenheim, the prolific centre-forward is in the form of his life right now.

He has hit the target 20 times in all competitions this season, including 10 in 2019 alone. These days, Kramaric is firmly established as one of the Bundesliga’s elite talents while Kelechi Iheanacho, Shinji Okazaki and co toil in front of goal at his former club.

 

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/04/11/brendan-rodgers-must-be-cursing-leicesters-decision-to-sell-andr/

[murphy]

34 minutes ago, davieG said:

Andrej Kramatic

 

 

Leicester City wrote off Andrej Kramatic fairly quickly.

Despite interest from Premier League giants Chelsea, The Foxes won the race to sign the rising star of Croatian football in January 2015, pulling off a real coup when they landed the 23-year-old Rijeka striker according to The Guardian.

But Kramaric’s time in England is best left forgotten. He was handed just 15 Premier League appearances, finding the net twice, and found himself on loan at Hoffenheim while Leicester were celebrating the Premier League title.

 

Few were shocked when Leicester cut ties with Kramaric in 2016, selling him to the Bundesliga outfit for a fee of £9.5 million, as reported by Transfermarkt.

And Kramaric has since spent the last three years showing Leicester where they went wrong. After 51 goals in his first two seasons at Hoffenheim, the prolific centre-forward is in the form of his life right now.

He has hit the target 20 times in all competitions this season, including 10 in 2019 alone. These days, Kramaric is firmly established as one of the Bundesliga’s elite talents while Kelechi Iheanacho, Shinji Okazaki and co toil in front of goal at his former club.

 

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/04/11/brendan-rodgers-must-be-cursing-leicesters-decision-to-sell-andr/

But...he never made it here.   

 

Silva might continue to do well at Monaco (hopefully).  Musa might be a success in Saudi Arabia or wherever he is.

 

All I was saying is that based on recent seasons, you can tell whether a new signing will be a success or not pretty quickly, within  ten games or so.

 

Kramaric doing well in Germany doesn't make his transfer here a success.

 

[davieG]

18 minutes ago, murphy said:

But...he never made it here.   

 

Silva might continue to do well at Monaco (hopefully).  Musa might be a success in Saudi Arabia or wherever he is.

 

All I was saying is that based on recent seasons, you can tell whether a new signing will be a success or not pretty quickly, within  ten games or so.

 

Kramaric doing well in Germany doesn't make his transfer here a success.

 

By definition they're unlikely to make it here if they're not given a decent run and are then shipped out.

You can't prove a negative we'll never know if some of the so called flops would have made it if they're not here to do so.

This whole argument has got too extreme my original comment was about writing players off to soon before they've had a chance to prove themselves and some players take more time having to adapt to differing circumstances. 

I'm exhausted debating the point so that's me out.

[fuchsntf]

29 minutes ago, davieG said:

Andrej Kramatic

 

 

Leicester City wrote off Andrej Kramatic fairly quickly.

Despite interest from Premier League giants Chelsea, The Foxes won the race to sign the rising star of Croatian football in January 2015, pulling off a real coup when they landed the 23-year-old Rijeka striker according to The Guardian.

But Kramaric’s time in England is best left forgotten. He was handed just 15 Premier League appearances, finding the net twice, and found himself on loan at Hoffenheim while Leicester were celebrating the Premier League title.

 

Few were shocked when Leicester cut ties with Kramaric in 2016, selling him to the Bundesliga outfit for a fee of £9.5 million, as reported by Transfermarkt.

And Kramaric has since spent the last three years showing Leicester where they went wrong. After 51 goals in his first two seasons at Hoffenheim, the prolific centre-forward is in the form of his life right now.

He has hit the target 20 times in all competitions this season, including 10 in 2019 alone. These days, Kramaric is firmly established as one of the Bundesliga’s elite talents while Kelechi Iheanacho, Shinji Okazaki and co toil in front of goal at his former club.

 

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/04/11/brendan-rodgers-must-be-cursing-leicesters-decision-to-sell-andr/

I reckon one has to just read this forum...and one sees how quickly and for how long many,many posters are very poor on recognising a good-decent player.

How poor they are,on not understanding how players can develope ,their careers,and potential for the club....

that in itself is not the bad thing...but it's when they go  on campaigns consistently bombarding the forum insisting players A.B or C are not and never will be good enough, and go on continual hate campaigns, against one of their own,instead of encouraging them over long periods...

What I could never understand,is how we as a club,could give some players long extended runs,but others like a Young  Kramaric or Kaputska,didn't give any decent  near near the first team...

 

I do believe,to a certain extent,as far as clubs are concerned,one can judge a managers all round quality when they have the rescources,but do not use them to

the full capabilities.Even when the tried and tested are letting you down,many are still reluctant to give the young high potential newbuy decent runs in the side,or

they Play them out of position.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[st albans fox]

Kramaric always struck me as a pretty accomplished player.... his performance up top alone at the emirates in feb was excellent. Sadly Claudio didn’t recognise his ability and he wasn’t best suited to our low possession approach

[murphy]

45 minutes ago, davieG said:

By definition they're unlikely to make it here if they're not given a decent run and are then shipped out.

You can't prove a negative we'll never know if some of the so called flops would have made it if they're not here to do so.

This whole argument has got too extreme my original comment was about writing players off to soon before they've had a chance to prove themselves and some players take more time having to adapt to differing circumstances. 

I'm exhausted debating the point so that's me out.

Not so fast DavieG.

 

You can't duck out before I've had my right to reply.

 

By definition, a player that can't get into the side cannot be called a successful transfer.  Players pick themselves not managers.

 

I don't think the argument is extreme at all.  I made a quite simple point that recent history suggests that our transfers either hit the ground running or don't make it at all.  The idea that players will adapt and grow into the side seems reasonable but it doesn't bear scrutiny.  It's just an observation, that's all.

 

Anyway, let's leave it at that then.

 

 

Edited 11 April 2019 by murphy

[weller54]

47 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Kramaric always struck me as a pretty accomplished player.... his performance up top alone at the emirates in feb was excellent. Sadly Claudio didn’t recognise his ability and he wasn’t best suited to our low possession approach

Yeah, but it's OK we've got Iheanacho now! 

[Tuna]

Couldn't care less about Kramaric, we won the league !!!

[Wymsey]

Apart from Wolves, despite how much they've spent in the couple of transfer windows, not sure who has had the best season so far - in terms of winning over critics etc.

 

I'd say Hassenhuttl has done a very decent job with Southampton so far, given the position they were in when they sack Mark Hughes to where they are now.

 

However, as painful it is to say it now, if Warnock keeps Cardiff up (considering the Sala tragedy being a massive weight on their shoulders and now a couple of key players out for the season) - that would probably be one of the best success stories of the EPL from the last decade, aside from LCFC'S title triumph, of course.

Edited 11 April 2019 by Wymeswold fox

[Goober]

If Kramaric was here he’d still be sat on the bench every week. We play 1 up top and he’d have needed to have displaced the GOAT. Seems like he’s developed into a decent player in Germany but I know who i’d rather have up front.

Edited 11 April 2019 by Goober

[Stadt]

He can play as a second striker but he wouldn't have had a place in the side in 15/16 and nor was he quick or hard working enough for us. Obviously a very talented player and it's easy to say we should have kept it him but it just wasn't really feasible.

[StriderHiryu]

10 hours ago, Goober said:

If Kramaric was here he’d still be sat on the bench every week. We play 1 up top and he’d have needed to have displaced the GOAT. Seems like he’s developed into a decent player in Germany but I know who i’d rather have up front.

With the style of football we play now, I am pretty sure he would play! He plays across all of the front positions, usually starting out wide and cutting in. For Croatia he rotates during games between AMR / AML / AMC  / Striker. He'd be absolutely perfect right now for our team and would very easily be in ahead of either Gray or Barnes.

 

Why didn't it work out for him here? He was very young, coming to a new country and playing for a team struggling at the bottom of the league. He's a typical Croatian forward who has been taught how to play a classical technical style. He has great technique, vision and passing, though physically he probably wasn't ready, especially as he's not the fastest. Even Mo Salah struggled in his first season for Chelsea in the league! So it's not the easiest for foreign players to adapt to, which makes signings like Kante and Tielemans all the more spectacular.

 

Anyway no point about crying over spilt milk as he's long gone. But I am glad he's gone on to have a very good career and I could see him returning to either the Premier League or making the move to a Champions League team in Spain or Italy too. The matured version is a class act! 

 

 

 

Edited 12 April 2019 by StriderHiryu

[ARTY_FOX]

There’s plenty of examples of athletes potential not being seen until late on because the world needs everything now. 

 

Could be wrong, but I’m sure it was Asafa Powell, thought of as an average sprinter and nobody was really interested in him then breaks a world record after he was trained. Just because someone doesn’t look the business straight away doesn’t mean the potential isn’t there. 

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

There’s plenty of examples of athletes potential not being seen until late on because the world needs everything now. 

 

Could be wrong, but I’m sure it was Asafa Powell, thought of as an average sprinter and nobody was really interested in him then breaks a world record after he was trained. Just because someone doesn’t look the business straight away doesn’t mean the potential isn’t there. 

.....and this can apply in all walks of life. In my time I mentored plenty of apprentices and there were many who started of poorly but shone through in the end some even going on to achieve a degree.

[sylofox]

33 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

There’s plenty of examples of athletes potential not being seen until late on because the world needs everything now. 

 

Could be wrong, but I’m sure it was Asafa Powell, thought of as an average sprinter and nobody was really interested in him then breaks a world record after he was trained. Just because someone doesn’t look the business straight away doesn’t mean the potential isn’t there. 

Imagine Paul Cooper coming into the game now. At his hight no one would touch him. But he held the record for first class penalty saves. 

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, Goober said:

If Kramaric was here he’d still be sat on the bench every week. We play 1 up top and he’d have needed to have displaced the GOAT. Seems like he’s developed into a decent player in Germany but I know who i’d rather have up front.

I think he could fit into that Maddison role (or at least the one Maddison was playing), I'd always had reservations about him because of his inconsistency, but for me this is his standout season now by some distance. He's put together nearly an entire season, rather than just spells of playing well. I think he's done enough to earn himself a move to a bigger club if he wants it. 

[Foxxed]

I went to school with some distinctly average girls who are now really hot and married. Andrej Kramaric.

[gerrytaggart]

17 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

I went to school with some distinctly average girls who are now really hot and married. Andrej Kramaric.

Same here.  Also conversely one or two proper hotties from school have turned out very under par.  Swings and roundabouts.  If life deals you lemons, just wait a bit they might actually turn out to be sexy lemons.

[Stoopid]

39 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

I went to school with some distinctly average girls who are now really hot and married. Andrej Kramaric.

Yeah - I went to school with a kid who struck me as a bit of an idiot.

Saw him last week - after years - and guess what...

He's still an idiot. 

Just older.

[HybridFox]

Klopp manager of the month over Rodgers

[Blue ROI]

Kramaric has done well without Leicester. Leicester did well without Kramaric. Simples

[Koke]

27 minutes ago, TK95 said:

Klopp manager of the month over Rodgers

 

Liverpool got 3 wins and a draw in March 

 

We got 3 wins and a loss.

 

Fair choice tbh.

[Xen]

42 minutes ago, Koke said:

 

Liverpool got 3 wins and a draw in March 

 

We got 3 wins and a loss.

 

Fair choice tbh.

I'm sure I'll get arguments saying 'you can only beat whats in front of you', but they're title challengers and two of those wins were against Fulham (thanks to a late penalty) and Burnley. Against Spurs fair enough, but they also drew to their much weaker local rivals.

 

Decent results, sure, but its hardly a showing of managerial excellence. Managerial competence, maybe... They were fully expected to get those results, if not more. The win against Bayern probably swayed it for him, even though its not the PL.

Edited 12 April 2019 by Xen

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

I'm sure I'll get arguments saying 'you can only beat whats in front of you', but they're title challengers and two of those wins were against Fulham (thanks to a late penalty) and Burnley. Against Spurs fair enough, but they also drew to their much weaker local rivals.

 

Decent results, sure, but its hardly a showing of managerial excellence. Managerial competence, maybe... They were fully expected to get those results, if not more. The win against Bayern probably swayed it for him, even though its not the PL.

You are aware that we beat Bournemouth, Burnley and Fulham whilst losing to Watford aren't you?

 

If anything we have underperformed results wise there. If we win our May fixtures then maybe you can be disappointed.