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BigMicky

Harvey Barnes

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5 minutes ago, treer said:

 vardy is a once in a football clubs lifetime, and even then a magnificent one in a million fluke using him for comparisons is just a non starter

Like Barca finding Messi

 

So, to that end, we learn absolutely nothing about having patience with players. 

 

Righto. 

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2 hours ago, Guest said:

What have you seen from Zaha to suggest that he's any more of a goalscorer than Perez?

Watching him play for us + watching Zaha play the last two seasons. I don't deny that their statistics are comparable, your point is well taken. But Zaha is better on the ball, more athletic, faster, and he is what I would characterize as a natural winger. The problem we seem to be experiencing with Ayoze may be more one of fit. I believe Zaha would fit our style more naturally, he would have service the likes of which he has never had, and Perez seems uncomfortable and unproductive playing for us so far, probably because he prefers playing more inside than we would like. If I thought we could get 10 and 5 from Ayoze the way Zaha gave CP last season, I'd be fine with that. But 3 of his 4 goals this season were in a game our opponent gave up. I'm just not impressed, and I don't think Rodgers is either.

 

To be fair, he may grow into the role though. It is def possible I am being too hasty. But there is a reason teams like Chelsea are talking about spending 60+ million for Zaha and not Perez. He is simply more talented, and playing for us, I think he could step right in and score 7-10 goals in the 2H of the season. 

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2 hours ago, foxile5 said:

You want to bin off Perez after less than six months? 

 

Did Jamie Vardy teach you nothing

 

I admit, it may be moving on from him prematurely. You don't think Zaha would be an upgrade? I'd be fine keeping Ayoze, I'm curious what he might look like as a striker for us. Happy to send Demi + 45 mill or whatever. Though Demi has been more valuable as a substitute than Ayoze has been as a starter. 

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i’m just really sad he’s getting nailed because i think he could be and want him to be the best player we’ve ever had 

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I think some people are getting a little defensive over Barnes which is understandable but I think they are taking the criticism as if people are saying hes a shit player and hes never going to be good enough for us which I don't think is the case at all with what a lot of people are saying.

 

For me personally its a case of, I think he probably will be good enough in the long run and I'm happy for him to keep getting chances but if we realistically want to compete with the top guys in the division we can't be regularly starting him.

I suppose it depends how ambitious you want to be really but where you can make an argument for nearly all our first 11 to be able to force themselves into one of the current top 4 teams or be similar in talent level I don't think you can do that for any of our wingers and that's what I think people are getting at.

 

 

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Both Barnes and Perez are quality footballers , both are more complete players than Gray or Albrighton . If they had scored two or three more goals each we would not be having this conversation. Impatience with them is understandable but we have to keep the faith. Idle talk about buying replacements won't wash , this is not a computer game, quality forwards are rare and cost a fortune. Taking a punt on a player who might fit the bill is a gamble not worth pursuing   I.m.o. I still think we should get a veteran forward at a relatively small cost to give us another option and help our young forwards. 

Edited by An Sionnach

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7 hours ago, jeffschlupp said:

I like Barnes, and as a Leicestershire lad I am desperate for him to do well as we all are.

 

His downfall is for me the complete opposite of Gray - whereas Demarai struggles with making the right decision, Barnes doesn't get himself in the right positions half the time to make up for his lack of finesse for his young age.

 

Every time we get the ball down the left Barnes is stood between the centre back and the full back like a 'left striker' rather than a winger. When he does drop deep it never goes anywhere. Watch Perez on the other side make runs, drift inside, drop deep, push to the byline etc. - it's a different world.

 

If you sit so far up the pitch waiting for the ball to come to you, first it ain't gonna get there, and second you completely stunt the main asset of your full-back in mazy runs on the overlap, because he's got no one inside to play the one-two with.

 

All we end up with is Maddison trying to compensate for that, getting dragged wide rather than being the extra man in the centre, and then attacks break down when Wilf has to push up into the space.

I don't know, I've noticed that he very often manages to get right in front of goal at nearly the right time - against Villa he got into two or three positions where he nearly poached a goal or two, same as vs Watford where Masina made the clearance of his life. That said, it isn't consistent movement I agree, he doesn't seem to know where exactly to kick-start his runs to from the wing. If you combined Perez's movement with the rest of Barnes' game you'd have the greatest winger in the PL that couldn't finish! 

 

I do think it's coming for Barnes. He's still learning how to play on the wing, after playing centrally most of his young career. I'd love to see him as the 10 in some cup games.

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1 hour ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I don't know, I've noticed that he very often manages to get right in front of goal at nearly the right time - against Villa he got into two or three positions where he nearly poached a goal or two, same as vs Watford where Masina made the clearance of his life. That said, it isn't consistent movement I agree, he doesn't seem to know where exactly to kick-start his runs to from the wing. If you combined Perez's movement with the rest of Barnes' game you'd have the greatest winger in the PL that couldn't finish! 

 

I do think it's coming for Barnes. He's still learning how to play on the wing, after playing centrally most of his young career. I'd love to see him as the 10 in some cup games.

I tend to agree further up field he does seem to get into the right position all we have to do is look at how many chances he has missed, I think his composure in front of goal is the problem he seems to rush everything... 

 

His defensive side of the game is not that great but I'm not expecting it to be either 

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9 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

I tend to agree further up field he does seem to get into the right position all we have to do is look at how many chances he has missed, I think his composure in front of goal is the problem he seems to rush everything... 

 

His defensive side of the game is not that great but I'm not expecting it to be either 

In fairness his workrate is good enough, so maybe his defensive positioning will come with time.

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On 17/12/2019 at 09:07, Shmokeee said:

Mahrez may well of impressed you first time you saw him but go back and look at his form and figures from his first 16 games with us. And as you correctly point out, that was in the championship( a far lower standard and a way, way easier league to make your mark as a player)

Then go look at Harvey’s first 16 in the championship.

Vardy was wrote off by a lot of people playing at a lower standard. But with time, guidance and confidence building, we have the current prem top scorer.

 

2 seasons ago, how many people saying chillwell wasn’t good enough?

 

Simple fact is there is no magical formula to make a player achieve his potential, it comes with dedication and patience, both in abundance.

 

I genuinely believe Barnes can go on to be our most successful academy graduate. Ever.

 

 

I think you treating each position as equal to one another.

 

If a midfielder doesnt do his job properly, it can be worked around by the team, but things like shots at goal can make and break a team's success.  Often the difference between a top team and a lower placed team is just that the top team is ruthless on their shot conversion rate.  Remember when we down with akinbiyi as striker? for much of that season we actually played well but just suffered from horrible shot conversion rate due to the striker.

 

Long term Barnes may be an absolute gem of a player, who knows, I think he is good, but I dont consider him at the level of someone like Mahrez.  When I first seen Mahrez, it was immediately obvious of his quality, and  the fact he is now a Pep player is no surprise at all, It was visible from the first time I seen him with the ball.  Now did Mahrez have a crap ton of shots at goal with a success rate in low single digits? I cannot remember.  I do think short term needs mean something, and shouldnt be brushed aside for what is potentially good long term.  I have no issue with Barnes taking pot shots when we 4-0 up, but if its 0-0 or only one goal in it I expect him to use his brain and pass to someone who can shoot, thats all really, there is nothing complicated about that.  It can be done as Gray has clearly been told to stop shooting every time he has the ball and he is now a better player for it.

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20 hours ago, Stadt said:

@Ric Flairalways brings up that he’s looked more dangerous on the right, it should probably be tried out more often

I also think the issues he currently has with not knowing where to position himself wouldn't be as important. Ricardo is next level in running the whole flank by himself, where as Chilwell can't be having Barnes playing up out there at times. Plus he seems look more at ease on the right, highly doubtful Rodgers will do it though.

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5 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

I tend to agree further up field he does seem to get into the right position all we have to do is look at how many chances he has missed, I think his composure in front of goal is the problem he seems to rush everything... 

 

His defensive side of the game is not that great but I'm not expecting it to be either 

The amount of chances he has had is an art form in itself, none of our other wingers get in to those sorts of spaces. That's why I'm confident he has the minerals to be unreal at this level, he has scored regularly at every level below the Prem but we just somehow need to get the belief and tangible results in to him and the goals will flow.

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18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I also think the issues he currently has with not knowing where to position himself wouldn't be as important. Ricardo is next level in running the whole flank by himself, where as Chilwell can't be having Barnes playing up out there at times. Plus he seems look more at ease on the right, highly doubtful Rodgers will do it though.

I don't think he's more comfortable there, I know his two goals have come over that side but they've been first time shots from what I recall. I'm not sure he'll cut inside onto his left as comfortably, just like Albrighton can't cut onto his left when he's played on the right compared to when he cuts inside successfully on the left. At West Brom he was the main man they looked to create, he was rarely subbed off as they knew he'd do something in the end and he often did. He's not got that responsibility or confidence to do that here.

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I'm surprised at the criticism  he has been receiving. He has shown he has the talent to be worthy of a start; I think that when he scores more frequently, his whole play will improve. Confidence in any sport is huge. Against Watford he was in most eyes the man of the match. He's young, it's it's first full season on PL; having an off day is not unexpected. I'm confident Rodgers will provide the support he needs to become a quality playerrer

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33 minutes ago, Mark said:

I don't think he's more comfortable there, I know his two goals have come over that side but they've been first time shots from what I recall. I'm not sure he'll cut inside onto his left as comfortably, just like Albrighton can't cut onto his left when he's played on the right compared to when he cuts inside successfully on the left. At West Brom he was the main man they looked to create, he was rarely subbed off as they knew he'd do something in the end and he often did. He's not got that responsibility or confidence to do that here.

Maybe so, I just don't think cutting in and shooting has produced much success and he seems to find pockets of space more on the right where he could then keep composure. All speculative on my part though.

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31 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

convinced he's going to do some absolutely mad things tonight 

He has tended to play much better after the fans start chuntering and this weeks waffle has been unpresecendted so brace incoming. 

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Read this thread and compare it to the Perez one. Got some weird fans who'd rather give a £30m signing time than a kid from the youth team. 2 players whilst different in the skillset and individual contribution, are having a similar effect on the overall performance of the team.

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I'm always in favour of giving Barnes time. He is so young and he gets into great positions so he is an intelligent lad. Wish he got onto the pitch tonight 

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42 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

Read this thread and compare it to the Perez one. Got some weird fans who'd rather give a £30m signing time than a kid from the youth team. 2 players whilst different in the skillset and individual contribution, are having a similar effect on the overall performance of the team.

Both of them are similar in that they can really impact games but both are really poor with end product, especially when it comes to finishing. They've both been guilty if missing huge chances this season. If they both get the composure in front of goal, we have 2 very good players on our hands. I'm sure Brendan will bring the best out of them both  

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