The VAR thread

[theessexfox]

I think that a.) the new rule is bollocks and should be scrapped and b.) that's clearly not the type of infringement that led to clamours for VAR in the first place.

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, foxestalkisfullofidiots said:

With regards to the new rule, any idea a handball in the build up can be used to disallowed a goal eg is just the player either scoring or assisting, or can it be used in the build up a lot earlier 

Just assisting and scoring ... and I believe it has to be fairly immediate ....as an example, think of albrighton at Everton in 15/16 where he charged down a clearance with an arm and then passed to vards who crossed for Shinji to score ......pretty sure that wouldn’t be disallowed under the new rule as contact with the arm wasn’t part of the assist .....had the ball ricocheted into okazaki’s path from Marc’s arm then yes, not allowed.  

 

 

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

I think that a.) the new rule is bollocks and should be scrapped and b.) that's clearly not the type of infringement that led to clamours for VAR in the first place.

The new rule is the new rule - whether you feel that VAR should get involved in enforcing it is a different argument. Imagine that the ball goes in off the arm and the officials don’t spot it ....... should VAR stay silent and not let the ref know ?  the rule is very matter of fact - any contact with the arm .....there is no element of intentional or not .......so it shouldn’t be a big deal to enforce it. 

 

[theessexfox]

6 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

The new rule is the new rule - whether you feel that VAR should get involved in enforcing it is a different argument. Imagine that the ball goes in off the arm and the officials don’t spot it ....... should VAR stay silent and not let the ref know ?  the rule is very matter of fact - any contact with the arm .....there is no element of intentional or not .......so it shouldn’t be a big deal to enforce it. 

 

Yeah I agree they're two separate arguments. I think that on the one hand, handball needs to have a lot more intent/movement of the arm than today's did, and on the other hand, I don't think VAR should be used for absolutely minor infractions that no one spotted or vaguely appealed for. 

[Dan LCFC]

Absolute utter garbage. A genuine danger of 'games gone'.

[The_Rorab]

My personal opinion is that it's having teething problems in that no-one quite knows what to expect from it yet - and it feels new and weird, and just a bit inefficient as well as the rules of the game moving things beyond the notion of giving attackers advantage. Or making judgement calls like is a handball intentional or not in order to try to create a game in which there is a clearly defined right and wrong that they can be consistent about throughout. I think it'll get better in terms of speed, and in terms of just people getting used to it, and I prefer VAR to referees getting calls wrong. That annoys me more - the feeling of injustice when you've been given the wrong call against you versus waiting for VAR to make sure that doesn't happen. Maybe that's not the popular opinion, I don't know. However, the sheer amount of vitriol against it is so unbelievably hyperbolic that it makes the whole discussion just exhausting. Football is still football with or without VAR, and if waiting a minute or so to get consistency over decisions over the course of a season means that 'football is gone' or whatever other melodramatic soundbite taken from an edgy teenager's angsty writing and it's that intolerable to you, maybe you should consider that things change, and that's just life.

Edited 11 August 2019 by The_Rorab

[Jattdogg]

I think they should continue playing while its reviewed by the VAR ref WITH either a manager or coach from each team allowed to put headphones on (and view a monitor) to hear,see, understand the decision. As soon as the decision is made (and its not an attacking play) the ref blows the whistle to announce the decision. Sure it could suck or in this instance a GK vs centre kick but it keeps the game flowing.

Edited 11 August 2019 by Jattdogg

[Guest Fktf]

41 minutes ago, The_Rorab said:

My personal opinion is that it's having teething problems in that no-one quite knows what to expect from it yet - and it feels new and weird, and just a bit inefficient as well as the rules of the game moving things beyond the notion of giving attackers advantage. Or making judgement calls like is a handball intentional or not in order to try to create a game in which there is a clearly defined right and wrong that they can be consistent about throughout. I think it'll get better in terms of speed, and in terms of just people getting used to it, and I prefer VAR to referees getting calls wrong. That annoys me more - the feeling of injustice when you've been given the wrong call against you versus waiting for VAR to make sure that doesn't happen. Maybe that's not the popular opinion, I don't know. However, the sheer amount of vitriol against it is so unbelievably hyperbolic that it makes the whole discussion just exhausting. Football is still football with or without VAR, and if waiting a minute or so to get consistency over decisions over the course of a season means that 'football is gone' or whatever other melodramatic soundbite taken from an edgy teenager's angsty writing and it's that intolerable to you, maybe you should consider that things change, and that's just life.

Suspect the age profile here is younger fans are for var and older fans are against it. 

[Kopfkino]

VAR is just a product of scapegoating referees and many of those complaining would go back to whinging about the ref if they didn't have VAR to whinge about.

 

Worked absolutely fine today, clearly an error and delivered the right outcome. In fact I feel most of the problem with VAR rulings, aside from time it takes/spontaneity etc, comes from how bad the rules are and how they are enforced.

[iancognito]

Months of "sort out the handball rule, no-one knows what's deliberate and what's accidental" and then when they make it a definite "well, that's not handball....spirit of the game's gone"

Spirit oif the game??? WTF is that? That's been ruined by constant cheating, diving, trying to get players sent off, surrounding the ref. What did VAR decide this weekend? 5 goals? Got them all right. They moaned it wasn't quick enough, it took 1 minute and a half from the check to the decision. That's fine. They moaned it wasn't clear what it was for...it's now on the screens plus replays that's fine.

[trabuch]

6 hours ago, foxestalkisfullofidiots said:

I think if you are involved in football at some level you want precision, the margins are so fine everyone wants the correct decision but as a spectator I think we have lost something, football is such a simple game that flows and so easy to watch, the game is becoming so complex it will be easier to follow it on TV as opposed to being in the stadium plus celebrating a goal will never be the same again, you can make the game too clean.

I was talking about VAR with a friend who was a ref today. My main gripe is with the tiny offside decisions. He said - if you have a rule and VAR shows it - then that should stand, no matter how close. I said - but it's not in the spirit of the game. I'm right, he's wrong. VAR is a ****ing catastrophe. Lost my train of thought half way through that, but VAR doesn't help.

[WigstonWanderer]

I think the use of VAR in offsides needs to give the attacker more of the benefit of the doubt for two reasons.

 

Firstly, this has always been the intention of the law.

 

Secondly to take account of the undoubted limitations of the accuracy of the technology. Feet and bodies typically move 5 to 10 cm between frames, which gives rise to uncertainty both in the time the ball was struck and the position of the offending player. Positions can be interpolated, but that doesn’t seem to be what they’re doing, and even if it was I think that’s going too far.

 

Add to that, that there can’t be a camera in line with play at every point, and that the leading portion of the players’ bodies need to be projected onto the pitch, and the uncertainties build.

 

Much better to go with the ref or linesman’s original interpretation unless there is a clear and obvious offside. Yes, the linesman is instructed to not intervene too early, but they can raise the flag after the goal to indicate their thoughts.

[Nugent]

Haven’t actually seen the decision from our game yesterday but the Man City game on Saturday was a farce. Is getting the decision right by millimetres worth destroying the spectacle of the game? Not for me! 

[RowlattsFox]

If we didn't have VAR how many people would be complaining on here that he handballed it and that it should have been disallowed? I'm going to say a few.

 

Real close offsides are concerning but hard to ignore because technically offside is offside. Vardy will definitely have a few of them this season where he is mm offside. 

 

Years of abusing referees (yes sometimes they were so shit they deserved it) has led to this where everything has to 'right' and the lack of common sense in the rules is showed up. 

[ozleicester]

It only serves to make those people who believe in conspiracy theories (eg the big teams get looked after) happy.

The game will never be 100%, there will always be interpretations and VAR just adds wasted time and spoilt celebrations. 

 

Unless you believe refs are inherently crooked or stupid... VAR is a waste

 

BTW, anyone referencing hand of god etc... i give you... did you ball go over the goal line in 66... was it out of play? we may never have had a world cup win, not to mention 50 years of banter and disagreements

[Guest MattP]

7 hours ago, iancognito said:

Months of "sort out the handball rule, no-one knows what's deliberate and what's accidental" and then when they make it a definite "well, that's not handball....spirit of the game's gone"

Spirit oif the game??? WTF is that? That's been ruined by constant cheating, diving, trying to get players sent off, surrounding the ref. What did VAR decide this weekend? 5 goals? Got them all right. They moaned it wasn't quick enough, it took 1 minute and a half from the check to the decision. That's fine. They moaned it wasn't clear what it was for...it's now on the screens plus replays that's fine.

Very debatable the Man City one was right.

 

Dodgy lines on screen, no one can be 100% sure they have stopped it at the exact moment the ball has been kicked so there is a margin of error - Sterling was off on the pictures by millimetres so no way can they be certain it should be ruled out.

Edited 12 August 2019 by MattP

[Jonezy]

So we finally get a clear rule about handball and people moan. We finally get the most important decisions right and people moan. People... 

 

VAR is here to get us the correct decisions according to the rules, so maybe the rules are not good or clear enough. An offside is an offside even if its only by a fraction of a shoulder and I actually hope that handball rules all over the pitch and not only those leading to goals would be so clear. 

 

I love VAR still. I understand the anticlimaxes it creates, but I have been hating on refs and bad decisions for far too long, so appreciate that most decisions now will be the correct ones.  

[Guest Cujek]

At the end of the day if that big guy hadn't hand balled it, intentionally or otherwise it would have gone through to Ndidi and he clears it, instead it hit his lower arm and bounced kindly for the attacker 

 

I called it hand ball, then they called for VAR which adjuticated correctly. 

 

In this case the correct desicions was made, when I could see it 50 yards away and both linesmen and ref missed it there is something wrong with the officials is there not? And any help they get must surely be better. 

 

The rule is now any ball on the arm or hand is a hand ball if the rule isn't followed then why follow any of the rules? 

 

I just wish the officials were better and didn't miss stuff, but they aren't and they do. 

[Voll Blau]

If this is genuinely what matchgoing fans want when they go to games, then I think something's very wrong. It dawned on me yesterday just how much it's going to fvcking suck every time it happens to us.

[Stadt]

If it had been us on the receiving end of it yesterday the poll result would be very different.

[ealingfox]

In time, players will learn to not use their arm to score and to stay onside and you will get fewer and fewer incidents like yesterday or the Sterling one. Personally I am lost as to why people are so pissy about handball and offside being deemed against the rules because tHe SpIrIt oF tHe gAmE. 

Edited 12 August 2019 by ealingfox

[moore_94]

 

[KrefelderFox666]

10 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I think the use of VAR in offsides needs to give the attacker more of the benefit of the doubt for two reasons.

 

Firstly, this has always been the intention of the law.

 

Secondly to take account of the undoubted limitations of the accuracy of the technology. Feet and bodies typically move 5 to 10 cm between frames, which gives rise to uncertainty both in the time the ball was struck and the position of the offending player. Positions can be interpolated, but that doesn’t seem to be what they’re doing, and even if it was I think that’s going too far.

 

Add to that, that there can’t be a camera in line with play at every point, and that the leading portion of the players’ bodies need to be projected onto the pitch, and the uncertainties build.

 

Much better to go with the ref or linesman’s original interpretation unless there is a clear and obvious offside. Yes, the linesman is instructed to not intervene too early, but they can raise the flag after the goal to indicate their thoughts.

The idea with VAR is that there is no doubt...

 

1mm offside is as much offside as 10 metres.

 

I get your point about when the ball was kicked etc. Maybe in those instances they should allow a window of uncertainty. All depends how much they can see and how accurate they can be.

[KrefelderFox666]

If VAR can help stop the amount of cheating that goes on by players, then I think this is good. Things like, diving, handballing (whether on purpose or by accident in scoring), running into the penalty box way before a penalty is taken etc etc etc

 

The biggest thing for me is the delay before people know there is a review. If the ref or linesman (or the VAR assistant for that matter) know immediately that they want to review something when a goal is scored, then let everyone know. For example, yesterday, as soon as Wolves scored, assuming someone knew that there is a potential case for the ball hitting the hand, tell the ref/linesman whoever who then doesn't give the goal and signals a review is in place. This prevents a team/fans celebrating then lining up for kick off and only then finding out that the goal may be disallowed. At least if everyone is stopped immediately, that celebration is not taken away from them completely.

 

Other than that the technology is there so use it. There are improvements to be made but we are moving in the right direction. I am sure there have been rule changes over many years where fans initially did not like it but it has helped make the game better.

[STUHILL]

I get it. It makes football fairer and I understand the need for it, BUT I just don't really want it. It will dominate the game and discussions. Look at our game on MOTD last night, most the talk was on VAR and I just don't see that changing for years. 

 

Obviously clubs voted for it and now we have it, we really can't take a step backwards, I just think what made Football so great and raw, was the lack of technology and interference. Now after scoring a goal, we have to wait minutes at a time and stare at a big screen for it to be digitally checked and sanctioned. 

 

I totally get the other side of the argument though and a handball is a handball and if you're offside even by a millimetre it should not count, but it just all feels very sanitised and pure, and I for one will certainly miss the ugly, raw side now and again!