Lyrics changed by the BBC so nobody can be offended

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, Xen said:

I think that (in bold) is fine, honestly. We're all still entitled to our personal views and if you don't find it offensive then I'm certainly not going to claim that you should think differently. What should happen is that there's respect for those that do find it offensive* and an attempt to understand why that is the case, and make arrangements to accommodate where suitable. As the BBC seem to be doing.

 

In fiction in general, when the language is critical to the plot or fits in thematically (with purpose) then I've no problem with it whatsoever, but its when it's used gratuitously which I take issue with, and especially when it could otherwise be easily altered. In this case, changing 'fa***t' to 'blaggard' would have the same cadence, half-rhyme and context, without being as directly offensive to a marginalised group.

 

Music is certainly in a different niche to plays/TV though, although I'm having a hard time of formulating my thoughts into words on that one, admittedly. Particularly so this song with its unique place in popular culture which I think sets it apart from other comparable media.

 

I'd agree that censorship in general needs to handled with care, as it could indeed be a slippery slope, and it's difficult to see where you draw the line. With this specifically, however, its such an easy change to make by one organisation, the original is still readily available and in circulation on their platform AND it can be freely accessed for personal use via youtube, spotify etc with no restrictions at all. If the government came out and banned the song completely then I'd agree its an overreach, but in actual fact there's very little censorship actually going on in this case. 

 

 

 

*Edit: those that find it genuinely offensive and not just for-the-sake-of-it. I appreciate that statement alone opens up a whole can of worms, but you get the picture.

 

I agree with pretty much all of that. It's because I agree that respect should be shown for those who find it offensive (even though the song was not meant to be offensive) that I agree with what you say about the BBC approach.

That's also a good point about the song's unique place in popular culture. This would be much less of an issue if the song wasn't played to death every Christmas.

 

I don't think anyone should have an entitlement never to be offended. But there should be an entitlement not to be needlessly hurt or victimised - even though that wasn't the intention of the songwriters.

I remember someone (possibly you?) commenting a year or two ago about drunken homophobes pointedly singing this song at gay people in a pub. Similarly, I can imagine it being deployed by homophobes in the school playground.

I don't for a minute think that limiting the broadcasting of the unedited version will eliminate homophobia - but if it helps some people avoid that sort of needless abuse, then it's worth doing. 

 

To clarify my position on its "offensiveness": I do generally see such words as offensive, although it depends on context (e.g. a black man addressing another black man as "nigga" or a gay person using the word "queer"). The words are meant offensively by the disillusioned, shambolic characters in the song (a presumably straight couple abusing one another - including homophobic abuse). But the depiction of offensive conduct in a song, film or book doesn't make that song, film or book itself offensive..... otherwise we'd never be able to display or depict offensive behaviour, which we sometimes need to do, be it in a documentary or a creative work of fiction.

 

But if the non-offensive depiction of offensive behaviour gives bigots licence to victimise people, including some who might be vulnerable, then it's a good thing if that can be avoided - as here.

 

I have an axe to grind here, admittedly, as The Pogues are one of all-time favourite bands. I saw them live about 5 times (crazy events), all before "Fairytale", before or at the time of the first 2 albums. I've been listening to some of their later albums recently and several are much better than I remembered, particularly "Peace and love". I'd now say that all their first 4 albums are bona fide classics and there are great tracks on several others. In a way, it's a shame that non-fans know them mainly for Fairytale, though I'm sure the royalties have paid Shane's bar bill and helped some of the others fund their lives.

[Alf Bentley]

3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

I read comics now? When did that start?! 

 

Cult Japanese comics only.

 

You confessed to it about 10 years ago - or it might have been origami or something?

 

File under "recurring references to the sexual desirability of Penny Mordaunt". 

[RoboFox]

Ah, Larry Fox. Systematically destroying his own career again.

 

What a strange hill to die on.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

2 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

By "radio edit" I meant taking out the swearing but you knew that already. Other songs have "slut" and "faggot" taken out for radio broadcast so why should this be any different? 

Ah now I understand what you mean, apologies for being an arse earlier I got the wrong end of the stick 🙈.

 

 

[worth_the_wait]

7 hours ago, Samilktray said:

I hope that once I hit my 40s I’m not 1 of these slugs who get the arse when I’m forced to grow up and adapt to the times

You probably will be, though. 

 

It's amazing how as you get older, you end up saying all the things that your parents and grandparents used to say. 

 

[worth_the_wait]

9 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Words change meaning over time. There is no point in living in the past. Ask 1000 people what the word "faggot" means and you'll get a handful of people telling you it means minced pork.

 

Not sure where you come up with that meaningless number from.

 

To millions of people, "Faggots" means Brains Faggots and mash.   Delicious!

[Fox92]

7 hours ago, DanNDH88 said:

Pretty sure people complain more about things being cancelled than those actually offended by the real thing, when half the time no one is even offended it’s just a marketing team deciding to change something. 

 

7 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

The people up in arms about the censorship are acting more like "snowflakes" than anyone else  

 

Radio edits of songs have existed for years for good reason. 

I have often found that those people who call others "snowflakes" are indeed "snowflakes" themselves.

[AKCJ]

29 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

Not sure where you come up with that meaningless number from.

 

To millions of people, "Faggots" means Brains Faggots and mash.   Delicious!

Maybe when you were a young lad it did.

 

About time you entered modern society though don't you think?

[Mike Oxlong]

10 hours ago, boots60 said:

Our moral guardians the BBC have announced that Fairytale of New York by The Pogues & Kirsty McCall will still be played on the network this Christmas.

After 33 years there is now no need to be offended as the words faggot, slut & junk will be replaced by something more "appropriate"

It seems the modern version of Winston Smith in the “Ministry of truth” is alive, well & beavering away.

 

Any other songs the BBC can feck about with so as nobody is offended?

 

[Buce]

 

Here's the etymology, for those who are interested:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)#Etymology_and_usage

[worth_the_wait]

26 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Maybe when you were a young lad it did.

 

About time you entered modern society though don't you think?

Supermarkets still sell boxes of faggots.

 

The fact they have haven't (yet) rebranded and removed the word, suggests they don't associate it with the same meaning as some other people.

 

And i am in the modern world, thanks.  I got my first mobile phone last year.

[AKCJ]

31 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

Supermarkets still sell boxes of faggots.

 

The fact they have haven't (yet) rebranded and removed the word, suggests they don't associate it with the same meaning as some other people.

 

And i am in the modern world, thanks.  I got my first mobile phone last year.

News just in.

 

Words can have more than one meaning.

[Carl the Llama]

2 hours ago, worth_the_wait said:

Not sure where you come up with that meaningless number from.

 

To millions of people, "Faggots" means Brains Faggots and mash.   Delicious!

It's been a few decades since that was last the popular association made when people hear the word, and I'm pretty sure the song isn't talking about processed meats. 

[shailen]

I think historical songs which contain offensive words should remain like a history lesson that people thought it was once okay to use such language. We are the same human race that used to burn witches, practice slavery and that is a part of our history and remains a lesson of when we got things wrong. History can be an important reminder of a darker time and invaluable for kids to learn the difference between right and wrong. 

 

[MPH]

1 hour ago, worth_the_wait said:

Supermarkets still sell boxes of faggots.

 

The fact they have haven't (yet) rebranded and removed the word, suggests they don't associate it with the same meaning as some other people.

 

And i am in the modern world, thanks.  I got my first mobile phone last year.

 

you’re not honestly suggesting Kirsty is calling him a meatball in the song are you?

[Dan LCFC]

It's just typical of nowadays really. Leaving it playing in a song really isn't some massive endorsement of homophobia.

[Bellend Sebastian]

The Fairytale of Laurence Fox won't be Christmas number one, but it's a nice thought

[Danizen]

[Samilktray]

20 minutes ago, Danizen said:

Amazingly the Cardi B song is censored too

[ealingfox]

49 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Amazingly the Cardi B song is censored too

 

Yes but let's not let facts get in the way of a good bit of victim complexing please.

[kingcarr21]

Fairytale of New York is the worst Xmas song anyway. Absolute shite. People only rave about it because it says the word faggot.

 

In fact I cant stand listening to the same xmas shit songs every year. They just wont die.

 

Bah Humbug

[AKCJ]

7 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

It's just typical of nowadays really. Leaving it playing in a song really isn't some massive endorsement of homophobia.

For the sake of replacing a couple of words is it worth offending people though?

 

I'm not a gay man so I can't say for sure but I would imagine a kid listening to that song with issues regarding his sexuality and being closeted because of it wouldn't really appreciate hearing the words "You scumbag, you maggot. You cheap lousy faggot" on the radio. Especially in a bloody christmas song.

 

Don't quite understand why it's so outrageous to want to cut that out?

[theessexfox]

Christ, are people still going on about a song that a radio station has slightly edited just like it slightly edits thousands of other songs? Wow our freedom really is under threat.

Edited 20 November 2020 by theessexfox

[dsr-burnley]

21 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

We reap what we sow.

If one uses the term 'coloured person', instead of person of colour, you'll be lambasted.

To be fair, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People seems to get away with it.  I think opposition to the words "coloured people" in the FA man's case was more because they didn't like him and wanted to kick him out (not saying they're wrong!) than any actual offence.

[Nalis]

34 minutes ago, kingcarr21 said:

Fairytale of New York is the worst Xmas song anyway. Absolute shite. People only rave about it because it says the word faggot.

 

In fact I cant stand listening to the same xmas shit songs every year. They just wont die.

 

Bah Humbug

Sorry but I call bullshit on your first paragraph, people like it because its a good song rather than the slurs.

 

As for Christmas song, just embrace them this year scrooge