Stoke (a) pre-match thread

[Pliskin]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

More so than the Europe League? We are averaging just under 2 points a game which will have us in and around the top 4, its going to be very hard to get top 4 but so is winning either cup. I wouldn't prioritise the FA Cup though just yet, the first few rounds are prior to the restart of the EL so we can still take it very seriously anyway.

I don't get why some people are still being so pissy about how we are playing... We're doing ****ing well... granted I was a bit gloomy before the season starts, but I reckon top 4 is definitely on. 

[murphy]

17 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

It’s a tough one to answer as we have seen with the mixed replies, I guess we really need to ask Portsmouth, Wigan & Wimbledon fans for an honest opinion.

 

I’m on the fence personally, win the FA cup it’s in the “bank of history” and I’d love us to complete the set but the downside being who really cares outside of our fan base v’s continued Champions Lge places which heightens the club profile which leads to a bigger fan base, better players and more revenue.
Globally were Spurs raved about prior to champions Lge spots despite winning a clutch of FA cups in the early 80s, same with Chelsea and Man C more recently, a club has to start somewhere to become a giant and I’d like to think we have moved a couple of rungs up the ladder with the title win and our recent Lge positioning

 

Maybe not so much on the fence after all, get continued top 4 spots and history shows you are more likely to win the FA cup anyway, just picking the past 30yrs only 3 clubs have won the FA cup outside of the clubs that normally get the top 4 positions and could go back further it doesn’t change much.

I think that's a good point.  My answer would be that football is cyclical.  Many of us seem to think that we will be competing at the top end of the table forever and will grow into one of the big clubs of the PL.  History tells me that this is unlikely.  This is our time in the sun and I would like to see us make the most of it and win another trophy and bank that elusive FA Cup.  

 

 

Edited 8 January 2021 by murphy

[deep blue]

5 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

The fact you are even directly comparing us to Spurs shows how far we have come.

 

Forest haven't even played in the Premier League this millennium. 

 

I think a covid hit FA Cup pales in comparison to more nights in the Champions League.

FA Cup is FA Cup.  Who cares, or will remember, that a pandemic was going on at the time? Not relevant.

[CosbehFox]

The more I think of it, the more I consider from a purely selfish view that we get knocked out ASAP. 

 

Would be excellent for the club to have a long run regardless of the circumstances but not to be part of it, weirdly would hurt significantly. 

[Always Next Year]

On 03/01/2021 at 16:39, Steve Earle said:

At last, JJ, Evans & Tielemans can have a complete break.

 

Here’s my bound-to-be-wildly-inaccurate guess:

 

Ward

Castagne

Amartey

Soyuncu

Thomas

 

Mendy

 

Under 

Praet 

Choudhury or Tavares

Barnes

 

Perez

 

Might as well stay at home.

[Raw Dykes]

50 minutes ago, murphy said:

I think that's a good point.  My answer would be that football is cyclical.  Many of us seem to think that we will be competing at the top end of the table forever and will grow into one of the big clubs of the PL.  History tells me that this is unlikely.  This is our time in the sun and I would like to see us make the most of it and win another trophy and bank that elusive FA Cup. 

I think you might be being a bit overly-pessimistic. I'm not naive enough to think that we're always going to be challenging for a CL spot, but this is a club that is growing fast. In fact, it's because this is our time in the sun that I think we have to try to finish top 4 as many times as we can to seize the opportunity to turn the club into one that more regularly lifts trophies. I think the club should be prioritising getting into Europe as often as possible to accelerate the club's growth. The more often we get into Europe, the sooner we'll have a squad strong enough to compete in all competitions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to finally add an FA Cup to the cabinet, but I'm not sure this is the season to put all our eggs in that basket. The fixture list is about to get hectic, and we're well placed in both the league and EL to do well in those competitions.

[King of Gipsy Lane]

If the FA cup meant anything Villa wouldn’t be allowed to play a team of Kids ! The match would be re-scheduled , the fa cup no longer has any significant meaning to the football world , that wouldn’t happen in the Champions league or the premier league, proof that the FA cup is nothing more than soup for a main meal 

[Stephen Hughes]

10 hours ago, deep blue said:

I read also "BBC Red Button" - isn't that live?

Yeah probably then, didn’t see that

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I don't get why some people are still being so pissy about how we are playing... We're doing ****ing well... granted I was a bit gloomy before the season starts, but I reckon top 4 is definitely on. 

I could understand it if we had bombed in the EL every time we rotated or if we suffered in the league because of playing EL and/or the injuries we had but we've done neither. The Palace game wasn't even that horrendous given the changes and that we should have been 2 nil up, possibly 3 by half time.

 

The league is tight and we could conceivably finish anywhere from 1st - 10th without much change in form but that's no reason to be so dismissive of our chances in the league this season either.

 

This is why I think we should go out and take some risks in the transfer market. Get a striker and another winger or attacking midfielder and actually try and win the fcuker again.

[fuchsntf]

Anybody who dismisses he FA.cup...are simply Brain farts & stink up the forum, with their total Lack of understanding of Football competition...

 

If a Football Club Decides to be profi...its the duty  to try and win all trophies....!!! 

Some Bloody weird fans, accord to this forum..and I thought I was Bloody crazy...

Edited 8 January 2021 by fuchsntf

[Jobyfox]

I think some people are forgetting the 2nd reason players state for moving to one of the ‘big’ clubs. The first is to play in Europe. The 2nd is to win trophies.

 

We all speculated how we could break into the monopoly of the rich six last year but, ultimately, we achieved no more than any of them. Arsenal had a better season than us as they qualified for the Europa League AND won a trophy. 

 

The best clubs pick up trophies when they miss out on CL qualification and target both. 2015/16 will always go down as a glorious, once in a lifetime, freak unless we follow it up with something more sustainable.

 

Regular qualification for Europe is one thing but, without any silverware, we will still be the poor relations to the rich six and, in the eyes of many, to a whole list of failing clubs who had a history of winning trophies. 

Edited 8 January 2021 by Jobyfox

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, deep blue said:

FA Cup is FA Cup.  Who cares, or will remember, that a pandemic was going on at the time? Not relevant.

Its relevant in terms of they have been on the decline anyway and now teams are putting out youth sides just to get it over and done with because they are covid ridden. 

 

I dont like comparing the two either usually because I think the rest excuse is very over used, but this season there is a genuine chance it could be one or the other with fitness and I'd take a full KP next season against Champions League opposition everytime.

[Gamble92]

4 hours ago, murphy said:

I just don't understand this way of thinking.  How can entering a competition be worth more than winning a competition, unless pound signs is all that matters?

 

Trophies are in the bank forever.

I agree in any other season. I just think there is a direct comparison to be made this year. Alongside Europa coming later on too.

[murphy]

40 minutes ago, King of Gipsy Lane said:

If the FA cup meant anything Villa wouldn’t be allowed to play a team of Kids ! The match would be re-scheduled , the fa cup no longer has any significant meaning to the football world , that wouldn’t happen in the Champions league or the premier league, proof that the FA cup is nothing more than soup for a main meal 

I don't really care what it means to Villa, or anyone else for that matter, Villa have got 7 anyway.  It still means a lot to me at least.

 

 

Edited 8 January 2021 by murphy

[messerschmitt]

3 hours ago, murphy said:

Fair enough, we can agree to differ but there are at least half a dozen clubs that operate n a completely different financial league to us and there are only four CL places.  We are punching above our weight but it isn't sustainable in the long term, nor a realistic expectation imo.  Remember, we have never qualified for CL except for the title win which was a miracle. 

 

I should also add that we are a team that is heavily reliant on a certain Jamie Vardy.  When he goes, things could look very different for us.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I totally agree with you there, we are punching above our weight but we're doing things a bit different with a better stratagy which has left some of the bigger teams having to throw massive ammonts of money arround to keep up with us.

 

With the training ground and planned stadium expansion I don't think the owners are playing at this.

 

You're right we've only been in the CL once but we were within a whisker last time, something I couldn't see happening again after 20015/16.

 

Vardy is the best striker we have ever had and as an individual is irreplacable, like Mahrez. But the team is bigger than any individual and we will move on.

You got me on a glass half full day. All the best.

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

If we ever get to the FA Cup final tickets will be a breeze going by these kinds of threads.

Edited 8 January 2021 by Sol thewall Bamba

[deep blue]

18 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

Its relevant in terms of they have been on the decline anyway and now teams are putting out youth sides just to get it over and done with because they are covid ridden. 

 

I dont like comparing the two either usually because I think the rest excuse is very over used, but this season there is a genuine chance it could be one or the other with fitness and I'd take a full KP next season against Champions League opposition everytime.

But clubs generally put out weakened sides only for squad management in the early stages when they still expect that selected team to be enough to win.  When it gets to the later stages, where the opposition is stronger, they revert to full strength teams, so they do in general take the Cup seriously.

 

I accept the point, though, that for clubs like us without the squad depth of the "big six" there are priorities to be considered.  My own feeling is that we are now close enough in quality and depth that we should consider going for both, although we might have to take prudent decisions at any particular point where that balance is put at risk (e.g. if we suddenly get a number of injuries).

[Steve Earle]

One of my most memorable...

 

[Collymore]

2 hours ago, murphy said:

I think that's a good point.  My answer would be that football is cyclical.  Many of us seem to think that we will be competing at the top end of the table forever and will grow into one of the big clubs of the PL.  History tells me that this is unlikely.  This is our time in the sun and I would like to see us make the most of it and win another trophy and bank that elusive FA Cup.  

 

 

I totally disagree. When you think of teams like Blackburn, Ipswich, Leeds, Sunderland, Newcastle for example who had their time in the sun, they didn't build a £100m training ground and become self sufficient to be competing regularly in even the top 10. 

 

This is testament to how good our owner are. They are making sure this isn't a flash in the pan and it really is unbelievably exciting. 

Edited 8 January 2021 by Collymore

[Alan Frost]

Don't understand all this "club of our size" and "cup or top 4". That might have been true a few years back but I'd like to think a squad of our quality and size makes us a club now with a reasonable chance of both. Sure thats difficult but not impossible for the current LCFC. The only thing that worries me is too many changes between Stoke and Soton. I think we should be able to cope with Stoke without JV and Madison but we certainly need our strongest team for Soton. 

Resting players might be necessary sometimes because of knocks but unnecessary  resting or protecting players from injury will guarantee weaker teams , the very thing you are trying to avoid.That does n't seem very joined up thinking to me.

I'm hopeful we are now strong enough as a squad to absorb a degree of injury and even some Covid effects if we're unlucky. And if we're lucky I think we are well good enough to perform well in the league, Cup and Euro competitions. I certainly trust Brendan Rodgers to be going for all three. The rest is in the hands of fate.

 

[King of Gipsy Lane]

29 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't really care what it means to Villa, or anyone else for that matter, Villa have got 7 anyway.  It still means a lot to me at least.

 

 

That’s fair enough and I respect that, but to me and the footballing authorities it means little these days, let’s see what it means to Brendan this weekend 

[Spudulike]

35 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

One of my most memorable...

 

I was in the middle of the Kop that match. One of my favourite goals from the Bloomfield era. We recreated that on the school fields numerous times. Went to every game that season and still bitter about that night at Villa Park. Probably why veterans (including me) still want (need) to win it eventhough it's a mere shadow of the competition it used to be. One day it will happen. 

[murphy]

38 minutes ago, Collymore said:

I totally disagree. When you think of teams like Blackburn, Ipswich, Leeds, Sunderland, Newcastle for example who had their time in the sun, they didn't build a £100m training ground and become self sufficient to be competing regularly in even the top 10. 

 

This is testament to how good our owner are. They are making sure this isn't a flash in the pan and it really is unbelievably exciting. 

I agree that the owners have done a superb job and laid great foundations for sustained growth. 

 

We might be self-sufficient, but we cannot hope to compete financially with the big six or even Everton, therefore people that expect that challenging for the top four is our new normal will get a slap in the face from reality at some point. 

[Collymore]

9 minutes ago, murphy said:

I agree that the owners have done a superb job and laid great foundations for sustained growth. 

 

We might be self-sufficient, but we cannot hope to compete financially with the big six or even Everton, therefore people that expect that challenging for the top four is our new normal will get a slap in the face from reality at some point. 

I think that is the party line that Brendan has been hammering home in the media recently to relieve pressure but I think there will be a step by step process behind the scenes that will be very ambitious. 

[The People's Hero]

We are going to finish top 4, people. Keep the faith.

 

Under is going to be fully fit and acclimatised by circa 8th February and start tearing it up.