Croatia Vs Argentina - Tuesday 13th September - 19:00

[Unabomber]

5 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Won the World Cup, premier league, fa cup, messi can’t even say he’s won the league cup. 

No I’m on about the players not team achievements

[Koke]

Properly organised football is less than 100 years old. Post second world war is when football started to produce real superstars like Pele. The game is a young game. In 500 years time if the earth still exists there will be multiple GOAT candidates who will come along.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Crazy how Croatia got knocked out with the greatest number 9 of all time playing for them!

[Dan LCFC]

That was probably the dullest knockout game yet. Reminded me a bit of the 2018 final where Croatia just look a bit out of their depth, so I'm sort of glad it happened in a semi rather than the final.

 

What a bargain buy Alvarez was from Man City. For all the shit they get for spending big they spend it very well.

 

Messi, nothing you can say that hasn't been said already. An absolute alien.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

32 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

You mean like Maradona was for the goal against England in the 86 World Cup?

 

Some times great players just can't be caught.

Only Terry Fenwick (who would go on to play briefly for Leicester) got close enough to have a shot at bringing Maradona down. But somehow he had managed to pick up a booking earlier in the game. He has said himself that he would have taken Maradona down if he hadn't already been booked.

Edited 13 December 2022 by SouthStandUpperTier

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Not at all surprised to see the usual nostalgia merchant old boys on here who think everything was better when they were 19 claiming Maradona or Pele were better than Messi. Messi is quite clearly the best ever. These same old boys would tell you that Keith Weller or Frank Worthington would run rings round most modern PL players ffs. We all know how that would go down. It's embarrassing, put your emotions aside and look at the facts ffs. 

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

Is it just me that really dislikes Croatia? Shithoused their way to the latter stages yet again. And they have a real small-country-in-CEE inferiority complex. 

They are like shit on your shoe you can’t get rid of 

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Won the World Cup, premier league, fa cup, messi can’t even say he’s won the league cup. 

 

... mate you know there's two different Ronaldos right?

[Leeds Fox]

3 hours ago, Koke said:

 

At this point only older generations who are nostalgia merchants who think Maradona or Pele are the greatest. Even if Messi doesn't win the WC he's still the GOAT.

 

3 hours ago, Koke said:

 

Can't speak on Pele but Maradona played in the 1980s. People who watched him are still alive. Lineker played against him and thinks Messi is the greatest. Messi has broken a million records. Both the stats and the eye test says Messi is better.

 

 

3 hours ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

Well that's not what he said at all.

I'm old enough to remember Maradona, and if I have to rank them, I think Messi's better. Maradona did some phenomenal things; Messi's done a wider range of phenomenal things for longer.

 

But seriously, let's just enjoy good players whenever and wherever we have them. We don't have to compare them all the time!

Well, it seemed like @Koke said anyone from the older generation who preferred Maradona was a nostalgia merchant, but anyone from that generation who prefers Messi has a legitimate opinion.

 

FWIW, I think Messi is the best in the current generation. I can’t comment on Maradona as all I’ve seen is clips. 
 

I just don’t think people who have seen both in their lifetime, who prefer Maradona, should be dismissed out of hand.

 

Of course there are going to be people who’ve seen both. In 30/40/50 years time, we could be in a similar situation, and with the logic used above, anyone preferring Messi would be seen as a nostalgia merchant. That’s exactly how the post came across.

 

 

[Raj]

8 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Not at all surprised to see the usual nostalgia merchant old boys on here who think everything was better when they were 19 claiming Maradona or Pele were better than Messi. Messi is quite clearly the best ever. These same old boys would tell you that Keith Weller or Frank Worthington would run rings round most modern PL players ffs. We all know how that would go down. It's embarrassing, put your emotions aside and look at the facts ffs. 

But for you in YOUR generation your dismissing Maradona and what he did for club and country singlehandedly without being surrounded by good players like Messi was at Barca.

???

Anyway, its opinions....like every arsehole has one.

 

[Jon the Hat]

6 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

 

Well, it seemed like @Koke said anyone from the older generation who preferred Maradona was a nostalgia merchant, but anyone from that generation who prefers Messi has a legitimate opinion.

 

FWIW, I think Messi is the best in the current generation. I can’t comment on Maradona as all I’ve seen is clips. 
 

I just don’t think people who have seen both in their lifetime, who prefer Maradona, should be dismissed out of hand.

 

Of course there are going to be people who’ve seen both. In 30/40/50 years time, we could be in a similar situation, and with the logic used above, anyone preferring Messi would be seen as a nostalgia merchant. That’s exactly how the post came across.

 

 

Players get a lot more protection these days from the Ref.  Messi might have found it a lot harder to play in the 80s.

[Bert]

1 hour ago, Raj said:

But for you in YOUR generation your dismissing Maradona and what he did for club and country singlehandedly without being surrounded by good players like Messi was at Barca.

???

Anyway, its opinions....like every arsehole has one.

 

But he’s not surrounded by anyone else really outstanding with Argentina? 

[Fox92]

10 hours ago, Koke said:

Properly organised football is less than 100 years old. Post second world war is when football started to produce real superstars like Pele. The game is a young game. In 500 years time if the earth still exists there will be multiple GOAT candidates who will come along.

Even in the last 20/30 years we've had Ronaldo, Messi, Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane who are all shouts for the greatest of all time. That's not even considering the defensive players Buffon, Nesta, Maldini, Cannavaro, Matthaus.

 

People forget how good other players were. And in the next 20/30 years we'll have the next generation of football fans telling us how someone is better than Messi.

[Fox92]

11 hours ago, bovril said:

Is it just me that really dislikes Croatia? Shithoused their way to the latter stages yet again. And they have a real small-country-in-CEE inferiority complex. 

Nah, I said it during the game myself. Such a boring side who scrape through by the odd goal. An Argentina v Brazil semi final would have been much better given the attack, quality and the fact it's a big rivalry.

[Raj]

32 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Even in the last 20/30 years we've had Ronaldo, Messi, Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane who are all shouts for the greatest of all time. That's not even considering the defensive players Buffon, Nesta, Maldini, Cannavaro, Matthaus.

 

People forget how good other players were. And in the next 20/30 years we'll have the next generation of football fans telling us how someone is better than Messi.

There are Greats and then there are the level just  below.

I'd class most of them.in that bracket.

Phenomenal players. Just not in the league of an elite who could be classed as the greatest footballers ever to have played the game.

I'm in level 100!

[Alf Bentley]

11 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I love that you can basically tell how old someone is by who they think the GOAT is.

 

For example, Raj is pretty ancient but he's not @Alf Bentley levels of decrepit (Alf was probably around for Pele's debut or something.)

 

 

Blimey, I've officially achieved Thracian or Rincewind status.

 

The GOAT was Pat Hilton, quality right-sided attacker and all-round team man for Folkestone in the late 70s and early 80s. Yep, senility is advancing well....

[Lcfc098]

12 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Won the World Cup, premier league, fa cup, messi can’t even say he’s won the league cup. 

So what? Only English fans think you haven't accomplished anything without playing in England. You think Messi would struggle in a league where players like Cameron Jerome have hit double figures

[gerblod]

10 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Not at all surprised to see the usual nostalgia merchant old boys on here who think everything was better when they were 19 claiming Maradona or Pele were better than Messi. Messi is quite clearly the best ever. These same old boys would tell you that Keith Weller or Frank Worthington would run rings round most modern PL players ffs. We all know how that would go down. It's embarrassing, put your emotions aside and look at the facts ffs. 

You're indulging in the same game. There are no "facts" - only informed opinions. Given the vast improvements in the ancillary aspects of the game (surgical, nutrition and training) and the awareness now of the damage poor nutrition, alcohol and tobacco do to the body, it's hardly surprising that modern players are significantly physically more able than their forebears. They're also privy to all the advances in playing surfaces, tactics and the increased number of substitutes. Many fine footballers had their careers cut short by chronic and catastrophic injury and the neglect that typified football in earlier years.

 

I'm neither embarrassing nor embarrassed when I claim that a particular player I witnessed in my youth was as adept and able as his equivalent modern player.

 

The current dispute between the younger football fans is whether Christiano Ronaldo or Messi is the greatest player of all time. That doesn't involve us old codgers.

 

And don't forget this is a team game - had not Barca plucked Messi out of Argentina, paid for his growth treatment (another modern medical advance) and gathered Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi to play alongside him, he may well have lingered as a decent South American lad who never quite got noticed by Spain or Italy.

 

But that's conjecture. He eclipses Maradona, because he's more of an instigator of moves. Was Cruyff a more complete footballer? I consider Zidane to be the most exciting player I've ever witnessed - more so than Pele. I never got to see di Stefano.

 

I suspect you're correct in lauding Messi as the most successful player ever - who's realised his potential more than any other player. He's never ventured into either the English or Italian leagues though. For me, the English top level is the real arbiter of a player's capabilities. Ronaldo has been successful in the three major European championships leagues.

But I'll leave the last word to G. Lineker, who opines that Messi is indeed the GOAT.

[Lcfc098]

If Messi decided to join Man City this season, he would probably have had an easier time of it than at PSG and would rack up countless goals and assists but because he hasn't done it against Bournemouth away he can't be the GOAT. Actually hilarious

[Leeds Fox]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Players get a lot more protection these days from the Ref.  Messi might have found it a lot harder to play in the 80s.

Yeah I agree. I’m not comparing them at all, personally I can’t as I never saw Maradona and the game 30/40yrs ago was completely different.

 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 hours ago, gerblod said:

You're indulging in the same game. There are no "facts" - only informed opinions. Given the vast improvements in the ancillary aspects of the game (surgical, nutrition and training) and the awareness now of the damage poor nutrition, alcohol and tobacco do to the body, it's hardly surprising that modern players are significantly physically more able than their forebears. They're also privy to all the advances in playing surfaces, tactics and the increased number of substitutes. Many fine footballers had their careers cut short by chronic and catastrophic injury and the neglect that typified football in earlier years.

 

I'm neither embarrassing nor embarrassed when I claim that a particular player I witnessed in my youth was as adept and able as his equivalent modern player.

 

The current dispute between the younger football fans is whether Christiano Ronaldo or Messi is the greatest player of all time. That doesn't involve us old codgers.

 

And don't forget this is a team game - had not Barca plucked Messi out of Argentina, paid for his growth treatment (another modern medical advance) and gathered Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi to play alongside him, he may well have lingered as a decent South American lad who never quite got noticed by Spain or Italy.

 

But that's conjecture. He eclipses Maradona, because he's more of an instigator of moves. Was Cruyff a more complete footballer? I consider Zidane to be the most exciting player I've ever witnessed - more so than Pele. I never got to see di Stefano.

 

I suspect you're correct in lauding Messi as the most successful player ever - who's realised his potential more than any other player. He's never ventured into either the English or Italian leagues though. For me, the English top level is the real arbiter of a player's capabilities. Ronaldo has been successful in the three major European championships leagues.

But I'll leave the last word to G. Lineker, who opines that Messi is indeed the GOAT.

Good Post 👍

[FoxyLeon]

5 hours ago, Lcfc098 said:

If Messi decided to join Man City this season, he would probably have had an easier time of it than at PSG and would rack up countless goals and assists but because he hasn't done it against Bournemouth away he can't be the GOAT. Actually hilarious

 

It's a perfectly valid argument when discussing Messi vs Ronaldo though. Even looking at it externally, taking Football out of it, surely it's easy to understand that it's far easier to live in the same country for decades, instead of moving to multiple different countries every so many years?

Messi has only once played abroad, and that was in his mid 30s and he scored just 6 goals in his first season.

Ronaldo first moved abroad at 18, and in his first season in Spain and Italy he scored over 20 goals....Only falling 2 short of that figure too when he went back to a very poor Man United side last season.

 

I don't buy the argument that you have to dominate in England to be a top player. But when one has dominated Spain only, and the other has dominated Spain, England and Italy, there's only one winner in that debate point. Ronaldo's success in multiple countries is undeniable and a clear objective point where Ronaldo is superior.

[RumbleFox]

1 hour ago, FoxyLeon said:

 

It's a perfectly valid argument when discussing Messi vs Ronaldo though. Even looking at it externally, taking Football out of it, surely it's easy to understand that it's far easier to live in the same country for decades, instead of moving to multiple different countries every so many years?

Messi has only once played abroad, and that was in his mid 30s and he scored just 6 goals in his first season.

Ronaldo first moved abroad at 18, and in his first season in Spain and Italy he scored over 20 goals....Only falling 2 short of that figure too when he went back to a very poor Man United side last season.

 

I don't buy the argument that you have to dominate in England to be a top player. But when one has dominated Spain only, and the other has dominated Spain, England and Italy, there's only one winner in that debate point. Ronaldo's success in multiple countries is undeniable and a clear objective point where Ronaldo is superior.

I think Messi is the GOAT and a better player than Ronaldo but I agree with you that it has to at least be taken into consideration. Ronaldo stormed to the top of the scoring charts in three separate leagues. He’s a genuine machine. I still prefer Messi and think he’s the better player but I hate the fanboys on either side who won’t even listen to valid arguments. 

Edited 14 December 2022 by RumbleFox

[FoxesWalk]

If you can’t enjoy watching Messi play football the sport probably isn’t for you 

[Izzy]

20 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

If you can’t enjoy watching Messi play football the sport probably isn’t for you 

When has anybody said that?